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Old 08 June 2014, 21:56   #1
Snake79
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AGA and cycle-exact (Fury of Furries)

Hi there! I have a problem to report. Sorry if it isn't the right topic / thread. The problem is related to ADF game "Fury of Furries", DL link: http://thegamearchives.net/?val=0_2_..._48979_0_0_0_0 (click diskette do DL). When i use plain A1200 config (2MB chip) everything is ok. The problem occurs only, if RAM (Fast) is set to 4MB or more and then is related to sound stuttering / echo-ing when intro is played and the loading screen (->50hz / 60hz) is selected (and / or Language screen). Is there something wrong with emulation of additional memory / RAM expansion or the problem is related to "cycle-exact" emulation, because without it everything is ok? PS. sorry 4 my english
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Last edited by Snake79; 11 June 2014 at 20:46.
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Old 08 June 2014, 22:14   #2
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake79 View Post
Hi there! I have a problem to report. Sorry if it isn't the right topic / thread.
It is wrong thread if it happens with older version (and it is required test before posting). So please confirm with 2.8.0 and thread will be moved if it still happens.

Probably normal game incompatibility. Most games are rarely meant for non-basic configurations.
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Old 08 June 2014, 22:28   #3
Snake79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
It is wrong thread if it happens with older version (and it is required test before posting). So please confirm with 2.8.0 and thread will be moved if it still happens.

Probably normal game incompatibility. Most games are rarely meant for non-basic configurations.
I am using latest beta (2810b6), but problem occurs from 2.7.x also. I was hoped, that problem is related to timings / "cycle-exact" trigger and will be solved in the future. PS. I always test latest betas with plain A1200 config + 8MB fast with "Fury of the furries" and "Flink AGA" / WHDLoad from HDF (graphical glitches when "cycle-exact" only), because i have duplicated problems with them from AFAIK... (2.7.0 minimum). PS. without "cycle-exact" trigger they are working fine, that's because i am wondering if chipsets are working on right timings... [only behavioral thoughts]... PS. Sorry, but i imagine a day, when WinUAE will become "a Real Amiga", keep up a Good Work ^.

Last edited by Snake79; 08 June 2014 at 22:50.
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Old 09 June 2014, 09:24   #4
Toni Wilen
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A1200 + cycle-exact is not that exact, some instructions are slightly too slow which can cause problems.

Note that CPU speed requirements can change greatly depending on config on cycle-exact mode, have you confirmed CPU% does not go over 100%?

It could be as simple as: the faster the emulated memory the faster CPU emulation needs to run = more host CPU power is needed.
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Old 09 June 2014, 19:04   #5
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The CPU is up to 18% max, SND from -1 to +1%. I have I5 4670K 3.4-3.8GHz. Strange that this occur when using 4 or 8MB fast mem only. PS. i have problem with "Turrican 3" ADF too with "cycle-exact" UNchecked (headless machine-last-boss on intro). When "cycle-exact" is checked everything is fine. http://www.planetemu.net/rom/commodo...-disk-1-of-2-2
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Last edited by Snake79; 09 June 2014 at 19:26.
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Old 10 June 2014, 22:50   #6
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I have done additional tests, and found something (following other CE posts, greetings Amilo & BigFan). This is odd, but when set "CPU frequency" to 8x (with CE) the sound issue with "Fury of the Furries" is getting worse, and the GOOD IS that when set to 2x (A500) CE everything is ok, even with 4 or 8MB of Fast mem... Are the frequencies of A1200 4x (CE) set too high / too fast? PS. Flink AGA / WHDLoad from HDF, with 2x (A500) CE is getting better also (much less glitchy / artifacts as before, almost unseen)...

Last edited by Snake79; 11 June 2014 at 00:40.
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Old 11 June 2014, 20:55   #7
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Sorry, but on first post i have linked wrong disk (updated now). The right link is http://thegamearchives.net/?val=0_2_..._48979_0_0_0_0 (old one was intro disk, but i mean game disk which is disk 2).
UPDATE: WHDLoad "Fury of the Furries" (same config A1200 CE 8MB fast + HD) doesn't have that issue...
Anyway, not big deal, i can play it with three configs without a problems: 1) plain A1200 2MB chip (CE) or 2) A1200 2MB chip 8MB fast (CE) with CPU frequency set to 2x (A500) or 3) as before, but 4x (A1200) from WHDLoad / HDF...
I found that "cycle-exact" offers better compatibility (with very rare problems) than without it, ie. without CE, games like Turrican II or Second Samurai AGA doesn't load / freezes fe...

Last edited by Snake79; 11 June 2014 at 23:02.
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Old 12 June 2014, 23:49   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
A1200 + cycle-exact is not that exact, some instructions are slightly too slow which can cause problems.

Note that CPU speed requirements can change greatly depending on config on cycle-exact mode, have you confirmed CPU% does not go over 100%?

It could be as simple as: the faster the emulated memory the faster CPU emulation needs to run = more host CPU power is needed.
Confirmed i think... When using A1200 config WITH CE + max available amount of SLOW mem, sound issue with "Fury of the furries" has gone and graphical / artifact issue with "Flink AGA" is almost invisible... So CE with Fast mem is much demanding... Thread for closing then when need...
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Old 13 June 2014, 21:21   #9
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...Sorry, but i don't get it... on configs as i mentioned before there was issues, but on higher config like 68030 CPU frequency 8x the issues gone (AND of course STILL with CE and Fast Mem)... so it can't be related to host power, because it's enough...
The OTHER PROBLEM which i discovered in time of testing is problem related to emulation of HDF's on that config: Amiga is booting sooo slooow on it (when HD Controller is UAE) and not booting at all (when HDC is IDE0). Please check it...
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File Type: txt winuae_debug.txt (48.5 KB, 43 views)

Last edited by Snake79; 13 June 2014 at 21:58.
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Old 13 June 2014, 21:31   #10
Toni Wilen
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Wrong log? It has 4x speed, not 8x.

EDIT: I tried your config (with 4x and 8x + HDF changed to my test file), works fine.

Next try in windowed mode and set priority panel to below normal. Any change?

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 13 June 2014 at 21:37.
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Old 13 June 2014, 21:40   #11
Snake79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Wrong log? It has 4x speed, not 8x.

EDIT: I tried your config (with 4x and 8x + HDF changed to my test file), works fine.

Next try in windowed mode and set priority panel to below normal. Any change?
Log (8x) Fixed now, sorry.
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Old 13 June 2014, 21:47   #12
Snake79
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No, it's the same: HD booting very slow (HDC UAE) and i have HALT1 when HDC is set to IDE0. I have created new config from plain A1200 too (windowed and below normal priority)...
I'm using image (1:1) of Compact Flash used on Amiga 1200 one day, which was created with "P.D. Image Creator" software. Maybe that's the problem? don't know... but it works on plain A1200 config f.e.

Last edited by Snake79; 13 June 2014 at 22:07.
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Old 13 June 2014, 22:06   #13
Toni Wilen
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Originally Posted by Snake79 View Post
No, it's the same: i have HALT1 when HDC is set to IDE0
Can you still enter early startup and see the drive in boot list or can boot without startup-sequence.

If yes, it is not directly IDE problem but something in your startup-sequence that for some reasons triggers this (side-) effect.

Code:
00-089 [193 086-000]: warning: 0007 written to BEAMCON0 PC=00F8F7C2
00-109 [194 000-000]: BEAMCON0 0020 -> 0007 PC=a250b168
These lines can't be right. It looks like KS ROM is confused and thinks hardware light pen mode is enabled. Possibly some utility/hack in your startup-sequence?
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Old 13 June 2014, 22:20   #14
Snake79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Can you still enter early startup and see the drive in boot list or can boot without startup-sequence.

If yes, it is not directly IDE problem but something in your startup-sequence that for some reasons triggers this (side-) effect.

Code:
00-089 [193 086-000]: warning: 0007 written to BEAMCON0 PC=00F8F7C2
00-109 [194 000-000]: BEAMCON0 0020 -> 0007 PC=a250b168
These lines can't be right. It looks like KS ROM is confused and thinks hardware light pen mode is enabled. Possibly some utility/hack in your startup-sequence?
The hard disk is visible in early startup and is booting fine with no startup-sequence on IDE0 normal / fast and with UAE much slooower. Confused too...

EDIT: maybe i should create a new one HDF image on this config, install fresh Workbench on it and then test it again?... or use already done from Amiga Forever will check it...
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Last edited by Snake79; 13 June 2014 at 22:36.
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Old 13 June 2014, 23:07   #15
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Bad news ;( A1200 030 (8/4x) 8MB fast CE don't even load Install or Workbench 3.1 ADFs (from (R) Amiga Forever '12) ending with black screen (->HALT1). When without Fast mem or CE disabled then working ok...

EDIT: when using AF'12 workbench-311.hdf and HDC is set to UAE everything is ok, but when switch to IDE0 ending with GURU / Software Failure...

Last edited by Snake79; 13 June 2014 at 23:27.
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Old 14 June 2014, 12:25   #16
Toni Wilen
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Do you mean booting AF wb adf without any harddrives also hangs? (and no other expansions)

I still can't duplicate anything with standard 3.1 adf or any HDF.
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Old 14 June 2014, 15:04   #17
Snake79
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Hello. I was performed tests again (winuae_2810b7).
I was using fresh created Quickstart A1200 config, windowed mode, 68030 CE, original: amiga-os-310-install.adf and workbench-311.hdf from Amiga Forever 2012.
case 1) amiga-os-310-install.adf (without any HDF), 68030, CPU Frequency 8x, Cycle-exact on, Fast: 8MB (autoconfig) -> black screen, HALT1
1a) same config, but Cycle-exact off, Fast: 8MB (autoconfig) -> OK
1b) same config, but Cycle-exact on, Fast: none (autoconfig) -> OK
case 2) workbench-311.hdf (HD Controller: UAE), 68030, CPU Frequency 8x, Cycle-exact on, Fast: 8MB (autoconfig) -> OK
2a) same config, but HD Controller: IDE0 -> Software Failure
2b) same config, but HD Controller: UAE, Cycle-exact off, Fast: none (autoconfig) -> OK
2c) same config, but HD Controller: IDE0, Cycle-exact off, Fast: none (autoconfig) -> Software Failure
AMIGA FOREVER HARDFILES (from README.txt):
"Any hardfiles you may find in this directory can normally
be mounted using these default settings:
Sectors : 32 (also called "blocks per track")
Surfaces : 1
Reserved : 2
PreAlloc : 0
SectorSize: 512 (also "block size")"
EDIT: plain A1200 68020 4x, with CE and 8MB Fast (or without it) loads amiga-os-310-install.adf -> OK,
but have the same "Software Failure" issue, when using workbench-311.hdf with HD Controller set to IDE0 (UAE is OK)
...Strange... Isn't it?
Attached Files
File Type: txt case1-winuae_debug.txt (48.6 KB, 52 views)
File Type: txt case2a-winuae_debug.txt (62.3 KB, 31 views)
File Type: txt case2c-winuae_debug.txt (74.4 KB, 40 views)
File Type: uae A1200 030 CE.uae (19.3 KB, 25 views)

Last edited by Snake79; 14 June 2014 at 17:41.
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Old 14 June 2014, 16:46   #18
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Toni, i have tested also with the config given (amiga-os-310-install.adf (without any HDF), CPU Frequency 8x, Cycle-exact on, Fast: 8MB) and i meet the same problem.
I'm not using Amiga forever, just the 6 WB 3.1 disks. If i launch workbench3.1 disk, it goes to track 76 then it bombs out.

How do i trigger the winuae logs for debug ?
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Old 14 June 2014, 16:52   #19
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Toni, i have tested also with the config given (amiga-os-310-install.adf (without any HDF), CPU Frequency 8x, Cycle-exact on, Fast: 8MB) and i meet the same problem.
I'm not using Amiga forever, just the 6 WB 3.1 disks. If i launch workbench3.1 disk, it goes to track 76 then it bombs out.

How do i trigger the winuae logs for debug ?
Hello there. Just run WinUAE, then go to "Paths" panel, select "Enable full logging" in bottom , then start emulation, and when it fails then press "F12" key and from "Paths" panel click on "Save All" and thats it
You can upload winuae_debug.txt file in Advanced mode on Reply then.

Last edited by Snake79; 14 June 2014 at 16:57.
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Old 14 June 2014, 17:06   #20
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Toni, i have tested also with the config given (amiga-os-310-install.adf (without any HDF), CPU Frequency 8x, Cycle-exact on, Fast: 8MB) and i meet the same problem.
This is strange ... it doesnt happen on my WinXP PC Laptop and same WinUAE config (A1200 3.1 CE 8x 2Chip 8Fast) ... why ?!

post the config file that produced the problem ?

p.s. Perhaps it could be a compatibility problem with a newer version of Windows 7 or 8 f.e. !
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