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Old 17 April 2014, 10:14   #1
zygzak
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Analog gamepad/joystick - problems

Hello. Can someone explain how to properly configure gamepad (Logitech Rumble Pad) with two analog sticks? I tried everything and still can't use my pad in game. The game is F-15 Strike Eagle 2 by Microprose. The game doesn't have any calibration options within, and in XP and Winuae configuration everything looks ok. Pad is configured as analog joystick, test function shows that winuae react normal to changing sticks postition, axis X, Y and Z report ok.
But the game sees that analog stick is angled a little up and little left, so my plane makes barrels for all time, and in game menu, where there is some selection, the cursor is itself going to the highest position of menu. Of course the stick is released and centered in that moments. Game reacts properly when stick is angeled opposite way, but after stick is released the problem returns. I tried gamepad with flashback as digital joystick and everything works ok.
Changing dead zone from 33% to 100% or 0% doesn't change anything.

EDIT: Winuae version 2.7.0.0 (stable), kickstart 1.3, A500.

Last edited by zygzak; 17 April 2014 at 10:35.
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Old 22 April 2014, 17:25   #2
Toni Wilen
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Unfortunately no one has reported potentiometer values of real analog Amiga joystick (full left, middle, full right). They appear to be really rare.

Current values are mostly guesses that work with another flight simulator (don't remember name) that also didn't have calibration screen.

btw, due to way Amiga hardware works, program gets different joystick position values in PAL vs NTSC modes. Try switching modes, perhaps it helps.
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Old 22 April 2014, 22:25   #3
Michael Sykes
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I tried Virtual Karting II,Freespace and a few other. No luck with any of them.Tested with a Saitek P880 usb.
I remember that I got it working with a cheap USB steering wheel and Formula 1 grand prix a few years ago.
Not very usefull and the pedals did not work or I had to set them to digital mode. I think it was a pre 2.0 version of WinUAE maybe 1.6.
Also I found a tool called 'AnalogJoystick' on Aminet.It works nice but the x and y axis are interchanged.It is just some sourcecode and a little demo to paint some dots with the analog stick.

The Freespace calibtool shows a range of 256000 steps I don't know if that value is given by the emulated stick or the tool itself.
But isn't that a bit to much?

The above mentioned wheel had only 2048(maybe less) steps to both directions and 512 for the pedals IIRC...
As reported by the win driver tools.
For my p880 i can't even tell since the stupid win7 soft remains silent about that.Or I simply did not find the damn option.^^But I it has for sure no 256000 steps!!!

Is there even a standard value for the range of potentiometer values or is that issue coverd by drivers or does it depend on the A-D converter in the Joystick?

Maybe on the Amiga it is like game X works only with joystick from brand Z.
It would not surprise me.Not on that computersystem... ;-)

Last edited by Michael Sykes; 22 April 2014 at 22:30.
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Old 23 April 2014, 08:47   #4
Toni Wilen
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Physical pad range is irrelevant for emulation. Amiga max analog joystick/paddle value is max number of scanlines - 8. (But full range is not used and can't be used, it would break even more games)

Amiga analog joystick is (was) really analog. There is 2xvariable resistor in joystick (with unknown value and unknown range), there is 2xcapacitor for each joystick on Amiga mainboard and comparators and counters inside Paula.

There has to be some kind of standard for analog sticks or games without calibration would not have worked. It is also possible there was multiple different joysticks setups that only worked with some games.

Whatever F1GP shows are not (can't be) Paula counter values. JetPilot calibration screen seems to show real "physical" counter values.
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Old 23 April 2014, 15:32   #5
Michael Sykes
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OK. I gave it a try but i think somthing is broken.
I know it was working some years ago but I do not remember what I did exactly.
I fired up F1GP and did set Joy 1 to analog in uae settings.
But in the calibration screen it says 'Please move full left and press fire'.
But i can press whatever button I want and it does nothing.
I tried the predefined setup with the digital directions as buttons and I tried to set button 5 as the standard digital joy 1 or joy 2 fire button but nothing does help.
Do I have to set Joy port one to analog stick before running winuae?
That woud at least explain why I can still move the pointer with my mouse even if the port is set to analog stick.

BTW: I think that this is much more important than tablet pressure support.
Most people seem to use the emulator for gaming.
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Old 23 April 2014, 15:40   #6
Toni Wilen
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Configure analog stick in joystick port, not in mouse port. Some programs talk about Port 0 and Port 1, some Port 1 and Port 2..
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Old 23 April 2014, 16:16   #7
Michael Sykes
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Wow. That was a quick one. OK I tryed.
Works flawless with the analog stick in port 1(joy2)!!!
Even the gas and break are analog.I guess I have to force it to the second stick on the pad via the profile editor from saitek.Even the shoulder buttons on xbox pads would work I guess.^^ NICE!
But the question remains,why does it work perfect wit F1GP and not with Freespace for example. As I said it is recognized by the calib tool of freespace but ingame you fly to the lower left of the screen all the time.
If you have the demo from aminet you could give it a try. It is not the worst game.

Is it possible to support more than 2 analog axis'?Since Freespace supports a PSX pad it could in theory use both analog sticks and up to 10 Buttons + the digital pad.
All we got is 2 axis and 4 buttons.
Not a request just an idea.First of all analog support should be usable with most,if not all,games that have implemented that kind of functionality.

One last question.
I never tried a PSX pad on a real Amiga.
How is the button mapping working on real hardware? Can i only use the 2 button + digi pad standard or is there some kind of soft/hardware hack to use more buttons or the analog sticks on dual shock pads?

Last edited by Michael Sykes; 23 April 2014 at 16:37. Reason: got an idea...
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Old 23 April 2014, 17:00   #8
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
But the question remains,why does it work perfect wit F1GP and not with Freespace for example. As I said it is recognized by the calib tool of freespace but ingame you fly to the lower left of the screen all the time.
If you have the demo from aminet you could give it a try. It is not the worst game.
Better question: is it even supposed to work? It is a PC port and if developer does not have analog joystick, it may not have ever been tested.

= real Amiga analog joystick is still needed!

Quote:
Is it possible to support more than 2 analog axis'?Since Freespace supports a PSX pad it could in theory use both analog sticks and up to 10 Buttons + the digital pad.
All we got is 2 axis and 4 buttons.
Not a request just an idea.First of all analog support should be usable with most,if not all,games that have implemented that kind of functionality.
No. At least without new protocol, for example serial data like CD32 pad uses for extra buttons.

Quote:
One last question.
I never tried a PSX pad on a real Amiga.
How is the button mapping working on real hardware? Can i only use the 2 button + digi pad standard or is there some kind of soft/hardware hack to use more buttons or the analog sticks on dual shock pads?
Hardware has 3 physical lines reserved for buttons. CD32 serial hack allows more buttons.
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Old 23 April 2014, 19:54   #9
Michael Sykes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
...PC port and if developer does not have analog joystick, it may not have ever been tested.
Damn you might be right about this.
I found a german FAQ about it online that says for example:

"Ich kann die Energieverteilung für Waffen, Schilde und Triebwerke nicht verändern!
Amiga-Tastatur hat allerdings keinen separaten Tastenblock mit Home-, End-, PgUp-, PgDn-, Ins- und Del-Taste. Bitte ändere die Tastaturbelegung entsprechend deinen Vorstellungen ab."

wich translates like:

I can not change the energy distribution for weapons, shields and engines!

It is the keyboard layout used from PC. However, the Amiga keyboard has no separate keypad with Home, End, PgUp, PgDn, Ins and Del key. Please change the keyboard layout accordingly to your ideas.

I must say there are times when I do not like lazy programers.

Don't feel offended Tony,I know you say that about yourself sometimes.
But compared to H&P you are still developing your "unfinished" program
and you never wanted any money for it.

I will give Freespace another try anyway,mybe it is just a problem with the joystick settings in UAE.
I could just download the PC version for free but than - I payed for the Amiga version and I want to play it properly. ;-)
And WinUAE is one of the best the best (68k)Miggys to do that!

Last edited by Michael Sykes; 24 April 2014 at 21:04.
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Old 24 April 2014, 17:20   #10
Michael Sykes
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Tryed again with freespace but gave up after 2 hours of trying any possible setting there is with that analog joystick stuff. Than a strange idea came to my mind. Why not use the damn wintoast profile editor from the makers of my pad...

I managed to "hack" Freespace,4D Sports driving,No Second Price and many other games to work in some fake anlog mode by setting my controlers left ministick to emulate an analog mouse.
I used the controller instead of the win mouse in uae port 1.I had to set it to mouse cause in default mode it would be recognized corectly as controlpad in port 1.
Now ANY game that supports a mouse as input device works with the controller instead of the mouse.Also workbench is usable.Wich were very nice if I had a wireless pad.
I could go on and set key layout A to port 2 and set that to the POV(digipad) and some buttons in that Profile editor.

I think many Amiga flightsimulators supported mouse as control and it is very accurate.
Maybe that helps zygzak with his problen,too.
Finally it pays off, to have watched macgyver as a child.

EDIT: If someone's using any UAE on an IBM Thinkpad with that red ministick on the keybord,I guess that must feel very similar compared to my method.
Using the workbench with a controller felt a bit like good old dreamcast.
Writing this I have another brilliant idea but my dreamcast died a few years ago. On the dreamcast it would have been the 'default' setting to have the mouse set to the analog stick.

How hard would it be to build that:https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...es/uzKReTQf0gI

And than buy this:http://www.ebay.de/itm/CH-Products-F...item258d15cdad
To investigate how an analogstick behaves on real hardware.

If anyone who can handle a soldering iron reads this than feel free to report data to Toni.

Last edited by Michael Sykes; 24 April 2014 at 21:00.
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