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Old 08 January 2014, 06:32   #1
turrican3
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which big society could you accept the help to rebirth the amiga ?

1 st if you don't like the idea, if you think that amiga should stay dead don't troll and flame this thread, please.

I'm asking myself which company could be accepted,by the communauty, to help to the rebirth of the amiga ???? It should be a big one because it will be an incredible hard task, but i think it's still possible...

It's your turn to tell how you think it could be possible with which partenariat ??
the possibilities are limitless ( cd32 owners ).

I begin and i'll be crazy, why not a motherboard completly done by nvidia with not a core i x compatible no a day pc but for central cpu one we can find on gpu graphics cards ???? And an workbench 5.0 completly rewritten to use the power of each little peace of this technollogy ??? Something new not all these boring pc, something exotic and powerfull like the amiga was in 1985.I know that some coders use the nvidia gpus or ati gpus like a central cpu !! But could it be possible to do the same with a complete os ????

That's the deal, if you find something which could make the amiga exotic and powerfull again share your dreams, your crazyness with the community and i'm sure that fantastics harwares guru we have here will come to say if there is a possibility to make this kind of mobo or not.

Let's go guy who could help to resurrect the amiga, how, and the most difficult question : why ???

ps: if you think that the guys like aeon could make it by them self tell us too, how do you see it, how aeon could make the amiga more attractive?

Let's go guys, don't be affraid : just be innovative, a little bit crazy and positif.
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Old 08 January 2014, 07:17   #2
T_hairy_bootson
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You've been sniffing glue again havent you?
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Old 08 January 2014, 07:27   #3
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Old 08 January 2014, 07:34   #4
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I don't think it needs to be reborn, it's doing bloody well for platform that 'died' 20+ years ago
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Old 08 January 2014, 07:39   #5
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Ah, what the hell, I'll bite.

Well, you're asking for big players, let's just say hypothetically a company was interested that had the capital to really bring it back from 'the dead' (it's not dead, it's resting!)

1) Microsoft. Well, we know this wouldn't happen, and well here's why we wouldn't want it to. They would take the AmigaOS and try to make it use tiles and be all about mobile devices (granted the architecture of the AmigaOS is tight, so it really would be good for embedded or mobile devices, but the UI would need to be completely redone for this, which.. well there's Windows 8..)

2) Google would take the kernel, scrap all the libraries and create their own hacked together Java-like library for 'native' applications. Then there would be two versions of DPaint, one that is pay for and one that is adware supported.

3) Apple would take it, flatten and square off all the icons, and remove all multitasking from any programs that they don't approve of.

4) IBM. Here's an interesting one. They are technically the only large computer manufacturer that is using PPC chips in their computers/mainframes. I think it'd only be Karma for them to bring it back from it's slumber. After all, it was IBM having open specifications on their first 'PC' system that caused all the competition to die, not to mention themselves getting out of the 'PC' business and selling off to Lenovo. IBM even manufactured the Atari Jaguar, which Atari was very proud of at the time, and advertised it as such. Hey we're made in America! Yeah, sorry, no one gave flying monkey crap then, because all the other game consoles were made in Japan!

5) The best actual result of any 'company' would be if the source code were simply released to the Amiga community and then the opened source could then be improved upon by the community and AROS could improve as well as MorphOS, and there would even be more programmers helping out OS4. Of course Hyperion wouldn't want this (as far as I know they have the source for 3.x? So many various hands it's gone through, it's probably dirtier than a 2 dollar hooker at this point. It's had more crazy's in it than Freddy Krueger's mom.)

5a) Create an Amiga Foundation, like there is with Linux, that promotes Amiga as a platform and get some of the widgets/toolkits ported to it to make application support so much easier. If there was a branch of QtMUI and GtkMUI for it, how cool would that be? Or at least some sort of wrapper or converter for it. At least then porting a lot of applications would be a lot easier. Of course the big problem with a lot of these is that they simply aren't optimized for 'low' amounts of memory. Could you imagine trying to run something like Gimp or Kmail in 2mb of memory?

With all of the above said (mostly jokingly, the last part seriously), problem with programming the Amiga and giving it a rebirth, is that newer programmers are generally lazy and use lazier languages. Assembly is considered to be masochistic, and C++ is 'too hard' for the Java and PHP programmers that are everywhere these days. Personally I think the best programmers are those that can take a limited amount of hardware resources and make tweaks until their software runs well in those limitations. For example, Novacoder getting Quake, Doom, Wolf3D, etc working on Classics so well.

If someone could get something like Firefox to run on a Classic, I'm pretty sure everyone would sacrifice their first born to them. Netsurf is almost there, but seems rather crash prone, not to mention seems really slow. I say seems because it actually renders pretty fast, it's just that the whole system about freezes while it's downloading images, instead of most browsers where they will show images as they're loading. This is similar in how Apple's iOS seems to be really fast and smooth because they use transition effects to 'blur' the loading process.

Anyhow, this is an interesting topic. I really wish Aeon luck in their endeavors, the only real way though to make their new line of Amigas to be more tempting would be to lower the prices considerably, but they can't do that unless they do a larger production run, which they can't/won't do unless they have a large user base. So it really is a chicken/egg issue. Though if they actually could get a lot of developer support, then they could at least advertise the benefits of using AmigaOS4 over the Mac/Linux/Windows computers out there.
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Old 08 January 2014, 07:42   #6
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Originally Posted by NovaCoder View Post
I don't think it needs to be reborn, it's doing bloody well for platform that 'died' 20+ years ago
Ha ha, you're keeping it alive in so many ways! (I'll have to find the thread again and ask you why my install of AmiDoom is failing).

Personally, I think the way to keep it breathing more would be if somehow there were a way to make all new classic Amigas. My worse fear is that eventually anyone who is into the Amiga but only has one or two machines will have their machines die, and then the hoarders will be the only ones with any hardware.

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Old 08 January 2014, 08:14   #7
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This is where I really expected Natami to surface as a new Amiga, or Tina....but the curse, the miggy curse...it's ruining things! Can someone lift it please?
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Old 08 January 2014, 09:23   #8
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What would be 'Amiga' about that machine then? A sticker on the front? Is there really any point to put the same name on something different to make it feel right?

X1000 and OS 4 are the successors of the classic Amiga (as far as I can tell), so shouldn't that be the 'Amiga' that people who want a rebirth should support?

Modern 'Amigas' are a niche market and until there's real money to be made, I (personally) don't think that any bigger company will invest in the name. There have been tries to resurrect the brand in the past years and I would say they were neither graceful nor successful...
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Old 08 January 2014, 09:31   #9
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What would be 'Amiga' about that machine then? A sticker on the front? Is there really any point to put the same name on something different to make it feel right?
Exactly what I was going to say. No custom chips equals no Amiga.
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Old 08 January 2014, 09:32   #10
seuden
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What if it was resurrected in a similar fashion to this?

Last edited by seuden; 08 January 2014 at 09:42.
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Old 08 January 2014, 14:03   #11
turrican3
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Personnaly i think, if aeon still in the path they used, there is no bright future... The mobo is too expensive. The price is the first problem.
1600 euro just for the mobo is too expensive. That's why they should try to find a big deal with a big fish they can trust, but does it exist, i mean can you trust anyone of these sharks ???
Or they should put money in making a new custom chip something revolutionar, but what could be done in 1985, could it be again in 2014 ???
Well, myself, i enjoy the amiga like it is actually a great hobby computer the one who lead to the multimedia the one who open the artistic area. But i leave a place for a future, i keep hope in aeon, i hope they still invest in something bigger than amigaone, something that they could show the world when we will have everything needed in software, they will perhaps be more ambitious but i don't know if they have enough money to lead the amiga to a high level maket competition ??? I still hope because the today computers are too boring or too expensives... The amiga was the only computer for mewho had everything, it was ahead its time, the best technology, hardware and software but a really good price, i mean after the a1000 era. like many of us said without custom chips, it's not an amiga... but i wanted too add a shade, without custom chips made in house, it's no more a funny computer, it's a computer like the others, the amiga returned in the ranks...

If they really want to have the amiga spirit they should invest in a research department and make a great innovative custom chip.

But what should do an innovative custom chip these days ??? I must admit, i don't know, i don't know what could be revolutionar like the amiga 1000 was ????

Do you have an idea what could be a revolutionar custom chip ???
Do Aeon have the power to make it ??? (they have xena but it doesn't seems to lead to an excitement.)
Or they should try to have a deal with IBM ???
What is your thinking ?
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Old 08 January 2014, 14:47   #12
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You've been sniffing glue again havent you?


Turrican3 Commodore went bankrupt in 1994. World changed, there is no need for Amiga, Ataris and old crap. You never beat Intel, Apple realize that and joined the x86 train.
Just think of their resources and they didn't went custom chips way. They would prefer that but they don't have the resources to compete with Intel. Who does? Even PS4 and Xbox are now x86.
Personally I don't care of any Amiga/Commodore corpse raping anymore. We've seen it all before. Buy yourself PPC mac install MorphOS , that is closest to modern Amiga you will ever get without spending fortune on OS4.1 machine.
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Old 08 January 2014, 15:14   #13
turrican3
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Turrican3 Commodore went bankrupt in 1994. World changed, there is no need for Amiga, Ataris and old crap. You never beat Intel, Apple realize that and joined the x86 train.
Just think of their resources and they didn't went custom chips way. They would prefer that but they don't have the resources to compete with Intel. Who does? Even PS4 and Xbox are now x86.
Personally I don't care of any Amiga/Commodore corpse raping anymore. We've seen it all before. Buy yourself PPC mac install MorphOS , that is closest to modern Amiga you will ever get without spending fortune on OS4.1 machine.
I just can't leave the idea, and i always hope that the future can lead to surprises ! The amiga still have a great echo in the industry and in the mind of past amigans or guys who just dreamed to have one !!
Just speak seriously with guy who works in computers , you will fastly see than some guys still have a light in there eyes when you speak about the amiga. Often they would like an amiga comeback.If everybody say there is no way for sure it will lead to nothing... The home computers was a bunch of fun by the amiga era but now, it's no more than a vhs device.
I think we could be surprise if a big one like sony would like to make a new computer, if this computer is fun to use, i should be the first to buy it and i don't care about the name, i would prefer the amiga name but any computer which could put a kick in the anthill should lead to enthusiasm.
If the name and mostly his spirit came from the amiga its better.
When do we had an exciting computer ?? a new exciting technology ??? Something new, something that you can still in front and say what an achievement ??? there is no more fun in the present industry and i still hope that something will change !! Something must change !!
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Old 08 January 2014, 15:19   #14
turrican3
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This is where I really expected Natami to surface as a new Amiga, or Tina....but the curse, the miggy curse...it's ruining things! Can someone lift it please?
Yes natami looked great, it's too bad that they stopped devlopment? Aeon should buy back the idea and make an affordable and fun new amiga. But perhaps they are doing it in the underground ?? who knows ???
I can't beleive that these guys goes so far and didn't even try to sell schematics of the mobo !
ps: guys remember when computer was fun !

Last edited by turrican3; 08 January 2014 at 15:27.
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Old 08 January 2014, 15:21   #15
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+1
Hey, I'm with you
Can you tone down the glue sniffing a bit now ?
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Old 08 January 2014, 16:05   #16
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I only would appreciate something like Natami, that will replace old dying hardware and has few additional functions (especially video connection). I just need it is 100% compatible with old HW. I think some Minimig AGA would be great. I do not have any need for any next gen something, that would only have Amiga name on it.

Just HW emulation of most powerful old Amiga (fully upgraded A1200/A4000)would be enough for me.
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Old 08 January 2014, 16:09   #17
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What if it was resurrected in a similar fashion to this?
I'd pay easily 100 to 300 if somebody make the same thing with tha Amiga. I mean it'll depend how it is made. Just basic emulation needing to be plugged to a PC or a touchpad or real amiga hardware in it that you may be able to connect on a monitor without having to plug it to a PC.

An Amiga 1600 with just AGA/68060/60mhz 128MB and a CF port, all built in a keyboard would be perfect but I saw the cost of a 68060 and I don't think this is even possible... Maybe an A1300 ?

With the hardwar being more and more used, somedays, we'll have to get another solution then just buying an other old amiga...
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Old 08 January 2014, 16:12   #18
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A new computer made in the spirit of the Amiga should have custom chips like Hewitson writes. For a modern computer, this would mean the following:

1. An advanced graphics chip, for example from Nvidia. Obviously with own memory. For optimum gaming performance with LCD screens, it needs to have G Sync.
2. An audio chip with DSP and its own memory for optimum CPU offloading. It might even have several hi-quality hardware sample rate converters for audio processing and recording purposes. That would also enable wavetable playback / hardware synth and audio effects with no CPU loading.
3. Tracked 3D interface, for example something like Oculus Rift as standard.
4. Modern speedy OS. Maybe the hardest task of them all to succeed here.

Many of the hardware requirements could be delivered by a PC or a modern gaming console like the PS4. It 'just' needs a different OS which will allow it to both function as a gaming device (important for the Amiga), but also as a productivity device with (wireless) keyboard, mouse or other interfaces.

Modern games fully written in assembly like the old days is never going to happen. Making efficient code on a modern platform like this is maybe 100x more complex than a classic Amiga, so C++ or similar will have to do (Java go home).
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Old 08 January 2014, 16:36   #19
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Why bother bring it up to date? The nostalgia is what we all love about it. I don't want an Amiga with an Intel processor, I have a modern computer to do modern tasks like surf the web and edit photos.

The Amiga is now a 'retro' computer, so the only way to spark new interest in it is to keep the original hardware (remember there are thousands of new A1200s out in India that are slowly being shipped back to Europe) but to start writing new SOFTWARE for it. I would happily buy 'new' games for the Amiga if people were writing them, I love the old-school look of the 16/32 bit era games, and the playability of them.

I'm sure that if anybody could be bothered to start making new adventure games, platformers, shoot em ups etc (the games that made the Amiga famous) then not only would lots of current users buy them, it would re-spark interest with old Amiga users.

So in summary, forget bringing the hardware up to date, we need new, high quality software. How cool was it to play Putty Squad for the fist time over Christmas!?
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Old 08 January 2014, 16:47   #20
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Bit confused?....what would a NEW Amiga be and where would it fit in todays consumer market??? I love it for what it was back then and how it's still fun now. Not sure what a new Amiga could offer me? Sorry to sound negative, but I for one don't want a new Amiga, just a loved and working old Amiga, like my nice A1200, that's the only 'Amiga' experience that does it for me

Maybe a nice new batch of '030' AGA Minimig boards at 99.00 would be good!!!

Last edited by fatboy; 08 January 2014 at 16:55.
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