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Old 13 December 2013, 00:33   #1
Viserion
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Help making Custom Kickstart rom

So I have decided to have a go at this, but before I begin I have some questions.

I bought 10 x AMD AM27C400,27C400,4MBIT,UV EPROM of ebay, and I finally got them. It may be a little late, but will these work on as an Amiga kickstart rom.

I have a UV eraser on the way, so I can burn them several times if needed.

I also have a PicKit2 with a extension board that support up to Dip40 from my failed Minimig build.

Annoyingly it looks like the PicKit doesn't support 27C series. Is this the case?

So what I understand is that the Willem programmer is the way to go. It is however a lot of them and I need to know which one to get.

As I don't imagine to burn a lot of these I'm fine with one in the cheaper end of the scale. As long as it supports the chip set preferably without any add ons.

I've seen a few on ebay that supports 27C4001 and 27C4002, but are these extensions of the 27C400, or are they something different.

Most of the cheaper ones use a parallel port and I don't have any computer (except the Amigas) that have a parallel port.

Has anyone got any experience with using a parallel to usb converters, or do I need to get a parallel port for one of my pcs.

Hope anyone has time to answer my newbie questions.
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Old 13 December 2013, 00:57   #2
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From what I recall mate, most USB to Parallel adapters create a printer port and not exactly a spare normal LPT port.
I also don't have parallel port on all my computers @ home, so I made a small old PC just for the programming needs.
USB programmers are indeed awesome, but are rather pricey for noob kickstart burners like us
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Old 13 December 2013, 10:15   #3
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I have on order from Ebay a Willem programmer and 16 bit adaptor that supports up to Dip 42 16 bit IC's
Fortunately I got my old Athlon based computer back from a friends Daughter a few years back, it makes a great retro gaming PC with A voodoo 1 and 2 on hand. The point is that it has inbuilt serial and parallel ports.

I have ordered a USB to Parallel adaptor as well, so will see if it works.

I ordered a PCB 5.0E Willem. Unfortunately a Top 3000 programmer with 48pin Zif socket is over $160, the willem is definitely for techies as it requires a lot of manual setting up, but I could find no others with more than a 40 pin socket, the Willem has 32 as standard.
Whenever it arrives I'll be programming some ps/2 to amiga joystick port adaptors via a pic16f84a and a dual Kickstart chip with the 27c800 I have.

The 27c800's I received are 100ns which should be fine, I have heard that 150+ns is too slow
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Old 13 December 2013, 12:15   #4
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Also, the default software for willem only supports 32bit OS. There is a hack though which works fine. I run mine with 16bit adapter on Win7 x64 without problems =)

Yes, you do need a parallel port though. My willem is version 5E or something. Not at home to check =)

If you need the willem software for X64, let me know and I'll put the files in TheZone.
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Old 13 December 2013, 13:41   #5
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Pickit2 is just that, PIC programmer, not universal programmer. That's why it doesn't support them. At first I got TOP853 programmer which is around $50, but it turned out it doesn't support them. In the end I bought used GQ-4X programmer, one of so called USB willems, and 16 bit adapter which works fine. So far I used MX27C4100 eproms not AM27C400, but they're basically the same thing, just different manufacturer, you can use either one on Amiga.

27C4001 and 27C4002 are no go. Although similar m27c4001 doesn't support 16bit access, it's organized as 512K x 8, Amiga needs x 16, MX27C4100 and AM27C400 support both 512K x 8, as 27C4001, and 256K x 16 which amiga needs.
27C4002 is 256K x 16, but before you buy some there is one more problem . They're pinout is not what Amiga needs. You could use them, but you'd need to make an adapter to redirect specific pins to where Amiga expects them. IMO the effort is not worth it, at least until we can get these that are compatible out of the box.

USB to Parallel adapter won't work, it's about low level hardware access, not interface. This adapter is just that, adapter, it doesn't have required hardware.
You could use PCI, or PCIe, Parallel cards to give new PC's parallel port, but it's also not hassle free. Most of these applications use specific address that's tied to legacy parallel ports. There are ways to redirect it but... In the end I bought USB one that will work out of the box instead messing with bunch of patches and fixes.

Last edited by Solo761; 13 December 2013 at 18:20.
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Old 13 December 2013, 14:31   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solo761 View Post
Pickit2 is just that, PIC programmer, not universal programmer. That's why it doesn't support them. At first I got TOP853 programmer which is around $50, but it turned out it doesn't support them. In the end I bought used GQ-4X programmer, one of so called USB willems, and 16 adapter which work fine. Although so far I used MX27C4100 eproms not AM27C400, but they're basically the same thing, just different manufacturer, you can use either one on Amiga.

27C4001 and 27C4002 are no go. Although similar m27c4001 doesn't support 16bit access, it's organized as 512K x 8, Amiga needs x 16, MX27C4100 and AM27C400 support both 512K x 8, as 27C4001, and 256K x 16 which amiga needs.
27C4002 is 256K x 16, but before you buy some there is one more problem . They're pinout is not what Amiga needs. You could use them, but you'd need to make an adapter to redirect specific pins to where Amiga expects them. IMO the effort is not worth it, at least until we can get these that are compatible out of the box.

USB to Parallel adapter won't work, it's about low level hardware access, not interface. This adapter is just that, adapter, it doesn't have required hardware.
You could use PCI, or PCIe, Parallel cards to give new PC's parallel port, but it's also not hassle free. Most of these applications use specific address that's tied to legacy parallel ports. There are ways to redirect it but... In the end I bought USB one that will work out of the box instead messing with bunch of patches and fixes.
I too can appreciate the GQ-4X programmer, simple to use and beside a good hex editor ideal for most of us and our nasty little obsession. I used to use a Willem version 5E but found it cumbersome and awkward.
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Old 13 December 2013, 18:22   #7
Viserion
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Thanks for a lot of information.

Is there any 64 bit Willem GUI Linux software out there, as the one pc I know have a unused pci slot is my Opensuse box.

If not I would need the 64bit versions of the software from Turran, as all my pc now have 64bit Windows.

I do got enough spares to build a pc or three from old HW, I just don't have the space for it .

The board I bought for the Pickit2 is the figure 2 picture: from Sure electronics, is it possible to use this with a Willem or GQ-4x programmer.

If so I would at least be able to reduce the cost somewhat.

Imperious: Do you have a link on what you bought, it would make it easier for me to get something I know works.

I was tempted to go for the 27C800s as well, but as this is the first time I try something like this, I chose to go the conservative route first, and try dual kickstarts when I know more of what I'm doing.

Solo761: The GQ-4X does look tempting, but is a bit pricey, particularly if I have to buy an add on card as well.

If I can use the card I already have I would be tempted, as it is more hassle free.

Thanks for the information regarding what ships work or not. It makes my head hurt but I at least know what to look out for.
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Old 14 December 2013, 09:05   #8
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The place I ordered my Willem from doesn't seem to have them now

I just searched ebay for eprom programmer and selected "buy it now" and "worldwide" and "price and postage lowest first" options, there are other dip40-42 adaptors but they are more expensive.

Until the start of this Year I had never burn't eproms either, but I received a dead c64 from a family friend and ended up burning PLA chip replacements as well as Rom chips for them. They
were OTP chips so just modified them to suit the socket configuration. With the UV eraseable chips I would make up adaptors as once You've cut,bent, modified wiring on the chip itself there
is no going back.

Last edited by imperious; 14 December 2013 at 09:14.
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Old 14 December 2013, 10:28   #9
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imperious: Too bad they don't have them anymore. Probably sold out.

Will try your search criteria and see if anything shows up.
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Old 14 December 2013, 13:33   #10
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Willem_x64_Version 98D12c3_for_PCB35-PCB4x-PCB5x.zip uploaded to TheZone for you. Just unpack it, install TVicPortInstall41.exe (included) and run. If you're parallel port is not on 0x378 then edit io.ini.
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Old 14 December 2013, 14:24   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imperious View Post
The place I ordered my Willem from doesn't seem to have them now

I just searched ebay for eprom programmer and selected "buy it now" and "worldwide" and "price and postage lowest first" options, there are other dip40-42 adaptors but they are more expensive.

Until the start of this Year I had never burn't eproms either, but I received a dead c64 from a family friend and ended up burning PLA chip replacements as well as Rom chips for them. They
were OTP chips so just modified them to suit the socket configuration. With the UV eraseable chips I would make up adaptors as once You've cut,bent, modified wiring on the chip itself there
is no going back.
You're in Brisbane, I am in Victoria. I have mounted my Willem programmer on top of an old zippy box with its PSU mounted inside that. I am looking to sell it, make a reasonable offer and I will ship it off on Monday.
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Old 14 December 2013, 15:25   #12
Viserion
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Thanks Turran.

I have to admit I didn't know of the zone, so I need to become a member first.
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Old 14 December 2013, 16:30   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viserion View Post
Solo761: The GQ-4X does look tempting, but is a bit pricey, particularly if I have to buy an add on card as well.

If I can use the card I already have I would be tempted, as it is more hassle free.

Thanks for the information regarding what ships work or not. It makes my head hurt but I at least know what to look out for.
I bought used one (cca $90) so it wasn't so expensive, I got some plcc adapters with it, but yes, all, in all, it's pricey. But since I meddle with electronics generally I'll have use for it beside occasional kickstart burn.

That board you have is to make it easier to program PIC microcontrollers with pickit via ICSP feature (In Circuit Serial Programming). It's not relevant to programming anything other than PIC MCUs
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Old 14 December 2013, 16:38   #14
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I went for the GQ-4X with the ADP-054 add on pending some issues with the seller not stating shipmentprice for the ADP-054.

In the end laziness and being a newbie overruled the wallet.

Does the GQ-4X do the same as the PicKit2?

If yes, I might sell it and make it hurt a little less.
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Old 15 December 2013, 07:04   #15
imperious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loedown View Post
You're in Brisbane, I am in Victoria. I have mounted my Willem programmer on top of an old zippy box with its PSU mounted inside that. I am looking to sell it, make a reasonable offer and I will ship it off on Monday.
Thanks for the offer, but I've already paid for it and it is on its way here, hopefully arriving this week.
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Old 15 December 2013, 15:25   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viserion View Post
I went for the GQ-4X with the ADP-054 add on pending some issues with the seller not stating shipmentprice for the ADP-054.

In the end laziness and being a newbie overruled the wallet.

Does the GQ-4X do the same as the PicKit2?

If yes, I might sell it and make it hurt a little less.
Mostly the same. It can program PICs with same ICSP method, only difference is on GQ-4X you put them directly in the programmer. Pickit istelf doesn't have socket so you either need to have that additional board you have, or design your devices with ICSP pins so you can program it while it's installed (which is the point of ICSP).

You need to check yourself if GQ-4X PIC supported list suits your need (i.e. if PICs you intended to program with pickit2 are on the list).

http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/stor...supportICs.asp

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/id...cName=en027813
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Old 15 December 2013, 17:05   #17
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Solo761: I really don't have any needs right now as the Minimig project failed.

That was why I bought it in the first place.

Oh well, I will wait a while and see if I have need for it.

You newer know when I get a crack brained idea agian
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Old 15 December 2013, 17:33   #18
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In that case you can sell it . If you ever decide to give minimig another go gq-4x can program that pic (I think it's 18LF252, gq doesn't support it exactly but it supports 18F252 which is the same thing. Difference between F and LF viariants is acceptable power supply voltage, LF can work with 2.0-5.5V while standard F is 4.0-5.5V. Programming is the same. So if need be you can use gq-4x to program it.
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Old 15 December 2013, 19:15   #19
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Well that is good to know.

It's not that I don't want to have another go, it's just I haven't found anyone who sells bare PCBs. I can only find fully populated boards, and is no fun.

If I find that, and they are reasonably priced, I will have a go again.

I have the correct pic somewhere, so could also program it first, and sell the PicKit2 later.

As holiday season is soon upon us, I think I'll wait until new year has passed.
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Old 21 December 2013, 20:15   #20
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Got the GQ-4X with the ADP-054 add on yesterday, and got the UV eraser the day before that.

Finally time to get busy

Tinkered around with this most of the day, and started to get frustrated when Remus refused to accept the 37.300 rom I had ripped with the GQ-4X. It wasn't until I installed it in a A600 and used transrom I finally got it working.

I will be doing 3.1 (A500/600), A1200 and A4000D(I got a ROOMY ) as well.

I thought I start easy , and start with a 2.05(37.300) as I don't have enough 3.1 to fit all my Amigas, and I really like to have at least one that looks like an older version that is running os 2(I would have love to have an 1.2 or 1.3 that could load hdds but still looked like the A500 I had back in the day).

There are mfilos guide on building a 3.9 rom(that I will do later), but I have found nothing on 2.x .

So what should I upgrade, and still be able to run os 2?

scsi.device is obvious, and I also would like pcmcia support in rom if possible.

Is it possible to replace fastfilesystem with either SFS or psfs3. It has filesystem_37.28 and filesystem_resource_37.2 now.

Anything else I can drop, to free up some needed space.
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