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Old 04 November 2013, 19:12   #41
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We were not here when Richard and him went to the court. Maybe the judgement has concluded that the game could not be sold ? I regret that i never asked it back to Richard when he was alive..... Shit.... Maybe that's the key behind all this folklore....
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Old 04 November 2013, 20:12   #42
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We were not here when Richard and him went to the court. Maybe the judgement has concluded that the game could not be sold ? I regret that i never asked it back to Richard when he was alive..... Shit.... Maybe that's the key behind all this folklore....
No. Cale would know it and wouldn't promise that.
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Old 04 November 2013, 20:51   #43
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I also don't think much of Mr Cale but what if there are some legal problems that prevent a release?
This game doesn't fucking exist further from wherever the demo was left off, period.
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Old 04 November 2013, 21:03   #44
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I also don't think much of Mr Cale but what if there are some legal problems that prevent a release? Maybe the agreement with all the people involved was made in a way that they should be given royalties based on sales? Maybe Cale doesn't own the complete rights to the Amiga version of Putty Squad? This would also explain why he didn't sell off the publishing rights of the Amiga Putty Squad back in the 90s... some companies were seriously interested in publishing it and I think he could have made some bucks back then (at least the Amiga market back then was still bigger than it is today).
So his story would have changed from "nobody would stock the game back in 1994" (had he not heard of mail order?) to "we're releasing it with the collector's edition" to "we can't find floppy disks" to "we don't have permission"? Gimme a break!
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Old 04 November 2013, 21:18   #45
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There's too much Mark Cale in this thread. He should be ignored as he is not a reliable source of information from now on.

Has there ever been any other word from the actual people who developed the game about its completion?

John Twiddy
Nick Lee
Phil Thornton
Jason Page
Richard Joseph (RIP)

?

Maybe we should write to Surprise Surprise! Codetapper could go on the show and be reunited with the 3 golden 'fleece' floppy disks of Putty Squad.... then get to throw a wet sponge (and a few apples) at Mark Cale in some stocks
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Old 04 November 2013, 21:31   #46
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So his story would have changed from "nobody would stock the game back in 1994" (had he not heard of mail order?) to "we're releasing it with the collector's edition" to "we can't find floppy disks" to "we don't have permission"? Gimme a break!
No, that's not what I meant. Of course this whole announcement was a pure publicity stunt to push the sales of Putty Squad for the other platforms. Of course he knew beforehand that he wouldn't give away the Amiga Putty Squad.

What I wanted to say was this: There must be some rational reason why Putty Squad hasn't been released yet. I don't think Cale is really that sadistic and likes to torture Amiga fans by taking the full version to the grave with him. I think he must have some logical, rational reason for not releasing this. Several of these rational reasons come to mind:

1) The game wasn't finished. But this was contradicted by John Twiddy in 2001 when he said that he had the sources and data files to build a full Amiga version. That old thread is still available on this board.

2) Sources and data files that Twiddy claimed to have in possession have been lost.

3) Sources and data files are in Cale's possession but he doesn't have any employee who has the skills to make a build.

4) Sources aren't in a finished state. They have a release candidate that was sent to the magazines but that is not ready for the customer.

5) There are legal issues that prevent a release.

....

There could be lots of things that prevent him from releasing it. Of course he's lying about it but I think he has a somewhat rational reason. He isn't sadistic. He could've made the game into quite some money back in the 90s. He didn't. Maybe the game really hasn't been finished. The best idea would be to ask Twiddy about it but AFAIK he's still working for Cale so.... there you go.
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Old 04 November 2013, 21:45   #47
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This game doesn't fucking exist further from wherever the demo was left off, period.
Of course you are wrong, this game exist (in 1994 year). Easy to check for demo you can see "START DEMO" for full game you can see "START GAME" on main menu screen.
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Old 04 November 2013, 22:14   #48
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No, that's not what I meant. Of course this whole announcement was a pure publicity stunt to push the sales of Putty Squad for the other platforms. Of course he knew beforehand that he wouldn't give away the Amiga Putty Squad.

What I wanted to say was this: There must be some rational reason why Putty Squad hasn't been released yet. I don't think Cale is really that sadistic and likes to torture Amiga fans by taking the full version to the grave with him. I think he must have some logical, rational reason for not releasing this. Several of these rational reasons come to mind:

1) The game wasn't finished. But this was contradicted by John Twiddy in 2001 when he said that he had the sources and data files to build a full Amiga version. That old thread is still available on this board.

2) Sources and data files that Twiddy claimed to have in possession have been lost.

3) Sources and data files are in Cale's possession but he doesn't have any employee who has the skills to make a build.

4) Sources aren't in a finished state. They have a release candidate that was sent to the magazines but that is not ready for the customer.

5) There are legal issues that prevent a release.

....

There could be lots of things that prevent him from releasing it. Of course he's lying about it but I think he has a somewhat rational reason. He isn't sadistic. He could've made the game into quite some money back in the 90s. He didn't. Maybe the game really hasn't been finished. The best idea would be to ask Twiddy about it but AFAIK he's still working for Cale so.... there you go.
All very reasonable points. Why Cale cannot simply state what it is stopping the release.... instead of annoying the very people who supported System 3 in the 80's/early 1990s.

If the game isn't finished or there are legal issues - fair enough, I wish, once and for all he'd put our minds at rest.
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Old 04 November 2013, 22:20   #49
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All very reasonable points. Why Cale cannot simply state what it is stopping the release.... instead of annoying the very people who supported System 3 in the 80's/early 1990s.

If the game isn't finished or there are legal issues - fair enough, I wish, once and for all he'd put our minds at rest.
Maybe he just isn't brave enough to step up and say he's been lying to us all the time. That's why the best idea would be to somehow get some words out of Twiddy but he seems to keep mum on the issue too :-(
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Old 04 November 2013, 22:24   #50
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1) The game wasn't finished. But this was contradicted by John Twiddy in 2001 when he said that he had the sources and data files to build a full Amiga version. That old thread is still available on this board.

Maybe the game really hasn't been finished. The best idea would be to ask Twiddy about it but AFAIK he's still working for Cale so.... there you go.
John Twiddy told Riempie that he had the source on DAT tapes and for a while it appeared that he would help release the game. Then he went completely silent. I don't believe anyone on here has had a reply from him since.

If the game was not finished, then why did Mark Cale say he was waiting for the game to come back from the duplicator? He either lied about sending the game to the duplicator (extremely likely), lied about the disk's existance, or both. He's exposed as a liar either way!

All this talk of "I want to release it to the Amiga community" yet everything he does is the exact opposite. Lies, deception, misinformation, going behind publishers backs each time to hype the game more. If he really wanted Amiga users to have it, he would release it as an ADF. Imagine the huge PR he would gain by ACTUALLY releasing it for free as an ADF!

I'm with Paul_s on this. He needs to come out and be grilled on this and just put us out of our misery once and for all.
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Old 04 November 2013, 22:25   #51
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Of course you are wrong, this game exist (in 1994 year). Easy to check for demo you can see "START DEMO" for full game you can see "START GAME" on main menu screen.
A text on the menu is hardly any proof for a full version The game is available for the SNES, but there is no proof that it ever was finished for the Amiga. The whole discussion is fruitless anyway, as it won't be released and interested parties should just get an SNES emulator and over it
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Old 04 November 2013, 22:30   #52
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Here's his statement that was just published on Facebook:

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Dear Friends and fans of System 3

In our excitement for the launch of a re-imagined Putty Squad, we set about doing something that we believed would reward the dedicated fans around the world. In an interview with Retro Gamer magazine, we announced that every pre-order would receive the original Putty Squad intended for release on the Amiga, on an Amiga disk, in the originally intended box. This would’ve been a brilliant achievement, and we were so passionate about making it happen. Sadly, we’re not able to deliver on this ambition.

Three issues meant we have had to retract this offer. Much like the last hurrah of the Amiga software market, it isn’t economically possible to create Amiga disks anymore. The prices were far too high and supply was very short. We also had issues creating a master disk to go to manufacture so that even if this disk price and shortage was not an issue our systems cannot now master an Amiga game. And finally retail were not very keen on supporting an Amiga disk as a promotion. They they had no way of checking if a disk was returned as faulty and may have been forced to refund the promotion.

Game Stores and System 3 are looking at offering another pre order offer and this will be announced by the end of the week. For announcing this Amiga pre-order idea through Retro Gamer and not being able to carry through on this promise, I and everyone here at System 3 is deeply sorry.

Sincerely

Mark Cale
No comment needed I guess...
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Old 04 November 2013, 22:37   #53
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Here's his statement that was just published on Facebook:



No comment needed I guess...
I could cry. Really. There are so many talented people out there in the Amiga world who could make this happen in the form of images/whatever.

Does he seriously believe that the supply of floppy disks would stop them releasing PS? He can't be that daft!

I couldn't care less about the PS4 release - I'd happily pay £30 for the images alone on a Kickstarter... hey include some form of Putty Squad merchandise to sweeten the deal.

Oh well, we tried (for 20 long years)

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Old 04 November 2013, 22:38   #54
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Old 05 November 2013, 00:32   #55
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Of course you are wrong, this game exist (in 1994 year). Easy to check for demo you can see "START DEMO" for full game you can see "START GAME" on main menu screen.
That's no proof at all of the existence of the FULL GAME. Not even in 1994. And since we don't have a time machine (and travel back in time seems not scientifically plausible ) the game does not exist.
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Old 05 November 2013, 00:38   #56
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How about someone ring System 3 and tell him the Amiga community is sending a technician down to help them extract the data files since it seems they are incapable. His name is Galahad!
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Old 05 November 2013, 01:34   #57
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"Hello? Yes, this is System 3. An Amiwhat?"
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Old 05 November 2013, 02:40   #58
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it isn’t economically possible to create Amiga disks anymore. The prices were far too high and supply was very short. We also had issues creating a master disk to go to manufacture so that even if this disk price and shortage was not an issue our systems cannot now master an Amiga game. And finally retail were not very keen on supporting an Amiga disk as a promotion. They they had no way of checking if a disk was returned as faulty
I find this line of argument very unconvincing, there are various companies still releasing wares for various floppy-based systems so it can't be that hard. Floppy disks are still widely available brand new, eg. at
http://stationery.auspost.com.au/tec...ack-of-10.html
it works out to $AUD0.73 per disk. That's buying at retail, in quantities of only 10. In fact, they are cheaper now than they ever were back then, even without adjusting for inflation. Prices were about $AUD20 for a 10-pack back in the early 1990s IIRC. (Or, of course, they could release it on eg. CD-ROM).

Any Amiga could be used for mastering, unless they are planning on including eg. weak-sector copy protection. If they can't release it protected, then release it unprotected, it's a better outcome anyway.

In my experience retailers don't check returned discs/disks for media errors, as there are other valid reasons for returning software (eg. it doesn't work on a configuration that it is supposed to work on) which are nothing to do with media errors. So it's just more of his lies and excuses.

It seems to me that we aren't reliant on System 3 for Putty Squad anyway. Presumably the Amiga playable demo contains the full game engine, most such playable demos do. So surely it would be feasible to combine the game engine from the Amiga demo and the level data from the full SNES game and end up with something very similar to what System 3 is refusing to release anyway.
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Old 05 November 2013, 04:06   #59
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What issues creating a master disk? Again thats nonsense.

1). Putty Squad would for sure have been more than one disk, Putty Squad was THREE

2). What issues? Copy protection not mapped for the duplicators? Disk error checking doesn't work? Cale doesn't actually have anyone at System 3 anymore that can do it?

Really, i'm still perplexed as to what the issue is. Whilst it all sounds nice to be including an Amiga disk in with the PS4 version (or whatever), it NEVER made any bloody sense in the first place.

WHY, WHY, WHY, WHY wouldn't he have simply done a digital download? Sell a digital download and include a code for a FREE download if you bought the PS4 version?

Not only would the cost be negligible, it would have generated a lot of good will feeling with people, and I reckon whilst the digital download wouldn't necessarily generate hundreds and hundreds of paying downloads, I reckon people would have put their hands in their pockets to support it, regardless if some miscreant like me got a hold of it and 'cracked' it for general distribution.

I'm still completely flummoxed as to what the reason is.

I think its time to sift through the shit, and get in contact with him, remove his excuses to not release it until we actually get given the game/code/whatever, or, in all likelihood, he admits that he simply hasn't got it and it will NEVER be released.

Sorry, but his information on his own game sounds wrong, Putty Squad was using a similar system to John Twiddys platform game systems like Aladdin, Lion King etc, and they were 3+ disk games, Putty Squad was AGA only, and I simply cannot conceive of it being a 1 disk release.
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Old 05 November 2013, 05:06   #60
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disappointing though hardly a shock. Definitely perplexing
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