English Amiga Board Amiga Lore


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.WinUAE

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 29 October 2013, 19:44   #281
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I don't see anything blinking in that part. (Do not use beta10, reason explained few posts ago)
Beta 9 2013-10-20 ... same behaving on my config (see attach.) ... now need to see/check some yt-video to compare if there is same or how it works as it should.

EDIT: Well, on my config it happens same as on this video -> [ Show youtube player ] ... starting at 4:23 !!!

p.s. BTW, why not to use beta10? What reason explained?!
Attached Files
File Type: uae test9_OCS.uae (10.5 KB, 42 views)

Last edited by amilo3438; 29 October 2013 at 19:54.
amilo3438 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 29 October 2013, 20:03   #282
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Ups, it seems forgot to report this findings earlier, so here it is now:

Marchewki (Trackmo) by Alchemy -> http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=8680
A500 OCS/ECS ... see on pic.1 below ...
A500 confirmed. (Corrupted data?)

Quote:
And maybe also this one (pic.2):
Lethal Formula Final (Trackmo) by Cult -> http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=20650
Also A500 confirmed. (Single line of hidden surface being visible)

Quote:
See arrows on Pic.6 ...
No Reality (Trackmo) by Devils -> http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=3676
Same. (Don't know, don't care, lazy code probably)

Quote:
Pic.7 ... glitches?!
Alternative Reality (Demo) by Suspect -> http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=12343
And same. (Corrupted data?)
Toni Wilen is online now  
Old 29 October 2013, 20:08   #283
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
p.s. BTW, why not to use beta10? What reason explained?!
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=265

Use winuae.zip instead.
Toni Wilen is online now  
Old 29 October 2013, 20:33   #284
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Yes, I use winuae.zip (test version) ... does the same happens on a real A500 as shown on yt-video (see on my post earlier)?!

EDIT: Just tested it again with latest test WinUAE 2013-10-27 12:17 ... and got same result as shown on yt-video?!

Last edited by amilo3438; 29 October 2013 at 22:09. Reason: small corrections in text
amilo3438 is offline  
Old 30 October 2013, 13:20   #285
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I don't see anything blinking in that part. (Do not use beta10, reason explained few posts ago)
Also when running latest test beta 10 from yesterday, it happens the same as shown on following video starting at 4:23 ->
[ Show youtube player ] !!!

So, if that is not a blinking ... then what is ... a flashing or flickering maybe!

Last edited by amilo3438; 30 October 2013 at 13:26.
amilo3438 is offline  
Old 30 October 2013, 13:30   #286
heavy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: europe
Posts: 169
I can't see any blinking... (end part sound like on my A500 ^^)
try this one : [ Show youtube player ]
done with b9
heavy is offline  
Old 30 October 2013, 13:43   #287
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavy View Post
I can't see any blinking... (end part sound like on my A500 ^^)
try this one : [ Show youtube player ]
done with b9
Well, if same is happens also on a real A500 as shown on video starting from 4:24, green area flashing on Earth rotation part, then there is no problem.
amilo3438 is offline  
Old 30 October 2013, 16:14   #288
heavy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: europe
Posts: 169
can't see any flashing in this part on a500 and on the 2 videos
heavy is offline  
Old 30 October 2013, 21:14   #289
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
Last A500 (Demo) by Oblivion

A500 OCS/ECS ... glitches on cube rotation part?! (Interesting, it doesnt happens on AGA!)

EDIT:
Feel Blue (Intro) by Oblivion

Another scrolling text issue (pic.2)!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Oblivion-LastA500_002.png
Views:	100
Size:	5.1 KB
ID:	37582   Click image for larger version

Name:	OBLIVION-FeelBlueFirst_001.png
Views:	96
Size:	3.9 KB
ID:	37583  

Last edited by amilo3438; 30 October 2013 at 21:36.
amilo3438 is offline  
Old 30 October 2013, 23:06   #290
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
TRSI Easter Party Demo by Panic & Agnostic Front

A500 ECS ... on the end of demo, while I tried to do reset from WinUAE Propertis, it crashes!

EDIT: While in demo just press LMB until pink screen is shown and after press F12 and click on Reset from there ... and it crashes (on ECS only)!
Attached Files
File Type: dmp winuae_270b10_20131030_230057.dmp (47.7 KB, 38 views)

Last edited by amilo3438; 30 October 2013 at 23:18.
amilo3438 is offline  
Old 31 October 2013, 12:24   #291
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
Megademo by Sargon & Red Sector Inc. & Thrust & Phalanx & Shadow Light

A500 OCS/ECS ... upper row pixels of word "SARGON"?! (pics.1,2,3)

EDIT:
Cheap demo (Demo) by Phoenix

Upper scroller glitches (pic.4)?! (Interesting, same CRC32 as on link, but here looks fine!)

Also, exist release 2 of demo (different CRC32) Cheap Demo Release 2 (Demo) by Phoenix, and works fine in WinUAE!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SARGON-Megademo_001.png
Views:	90
Size:	6.4 KB
ID:	37593   Click image for larger version

Name:	SARGON-Megademo_002.png
Views:	95
Size:	6.3 KB
ID:	37594   Click image for larger version

Name:	SARGON-Megademo_003.png
Views:	96
Size:	5.6 KB
ID:	37595   Click image for larger version

Name:	PHX-CHEA_001.png
Views:	91
Size:	10.3 KB
ID:	37596  

Last edited by amilo3438; 31 October 2013 at 13:30.
amilo3438 is offline  
Old 31 October 2013, 18:08   #292
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Last A500 (Demo) by Oblivion

A500 OCS/ECS ... glitches on cube rotation part?! (Interesting, it doesnt happens on AGA!)
It is never interesting, most likely caused by some CPU emulation timing problem (possible even same as Anarchy's Madness 2)

Working with AGA config only means it is not badly coded

Quote:
EDIT:
Feel Blue (Intro) by Oblivion

Another scrolling text issue (pic.2)!
Yeah, same problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
TRSI Easter Party Demo by Panic & Agnostic Front

A500 ECS ... on the end of demo, while I tried to do reset from WinUAE Propertis, it crashes!
It crashes very badly, stack pointer points to custom registers and CPU keeps generating exceptions = all kinds of garbage gets written to custom registers. (log shows it very clearly). Probably some programmed refresh rate register (ECS only) gets too bad values that are not fully validated.

btw, remember that only dump files from official betas can be used for debugging purposes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Megademo by Sargon & Red Sector Inc. & Thrust & Phalanx & Shadow Light

A500 OCS/ECS ... upper row pixels of word "SARGON"?! (pics.1,2,3)
This is OCS only. ECS = single mismatched row. Emulation slightly tweaked to match this behavior.

Probably yet another demo that does not clear/initialize memory it uses and assumes some bootblock/menu etc.. does it. A500 confirmed, shows same garbage.
Toni Wilen is online now  
Old 31 October 2013, 18:36   #293
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
It is never interesting, most likely caused by some CPU emulation timing problem (possible even same as Anarchy's Madness 2)

Working with AGA config only means it is not badly coded

Last A500 (Demo) by Oblivion ... oh yea, it is interesting indeed!

Dont use A1200 config. but on A500 config. just change OCS/ECS into AGA and no problemos! So how it could be a CPU emulation timing problem then?
amilo3438 is offline  
Old 31 October 2013, 19:00   #294
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Last A500 (Demo) by Oblivion ... oh yea, it is interesting indeed!

Dont use A1200 config. but on A500 config. just change OCS/ECS into AGA and no problemos! So how it could be a CPU emulation timing problem then?
"AGA" usually means full AGA config..

It enables AGA-only 32-bit bitplane fetches in that vector part = twice more chipram bandwidth left for CPU and blitter if AGA chipset.
Toni Wilen is online now  
Old 31 October 2013, 19:21   #295
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
"AGA" usually means full AGA config..

It enables AGA-only 32-bit bitplane fetches in that vector part = twice more chipram bandwidth left for CPU and blitter if AGA chipset.
Ok, didnt know for that ... so now tested it again but on CPU Freq. 1x (=A500/2) and AGA = no problemos!

... (but now a lot of problems on chessboard rotation cube ... so it is weird a little?!)

yea, all other CPU Freq. on OCS, including Custom, doesnt change anything ... so only on OCS if CE=OFF no problems!

Last edited by amilo3438; 31 October 2013 at 19:26.
amilo3438 is offline  
Old 31 October 2013, 19:29   #296
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Ok, didnt know for that ... so now tested it again but on CPU Freq. 1x (=A500/2) and AGA ... no problemos! (but now a lot of problems on chessboard rotation cube) ... so it is weird a little?!
I don't think you understood it. It means blitter has nearly twice more bandwidth = finishes line drawing and filling much faster = no glitches. It does not change clock rates at all. It only reduces wait states.

There is nothing weird.

AGA blitter is exact same as ECS one. It is bitplane DMA having 32 (2x)/64 (4x) bit fetch modes on AGA that speeds up the blitter because bitplane DMA uses _less_ DMA cycles, leaving more for blitter, copper and CPU (if it accesses chip RAM).
Toni Wilen is online now  
Old 31 October 2013, 19:35   #297
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
So, its probably another CPU emulation timing problem then ... Ok, and thanks for the detailed explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
It is never interesting, most likely caused by some CPU emulation timing problem (possible even same as Anarchy's Madness 2)
Well, do you remember this (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=70031) already solved problem ... at first it was on same (false) diagnosis!


EDIT: Now one thing bugging me ... Can it happen a CPU instruction with bad timing, once repaired (if ever), causes errors in some of the "already repaired" demos?!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just thinking ...
What would be the fastest way to check does the all CPU instructions use correct timings?
Is it possible to print out the values and compare it with values with those in a book?
Or maybe make some program that will save timings from a real A500 and then compare these values on WinUAE?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT2: Just tested the demo Last A500 (Demo) by Oblivion again with 68010, 68020 and 68030 CPUs on same A500 freq. with CE=ON ... got exactly same glitches on rotation cube part as with 68000! ... Is it possible that all emulated CPUs suffer from the same timing problem?!

EDIT3: But one interesting case: On the demo Hi Freaks (Intro) by Supplex & The Silents ... when using 68010 instead 68000, problem is gone!!!

Last edited by amilo3438; 31 October 2013 at 23:36.
amilo3438 is offline  
Old 01 November 2013, 21:49   #298
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Well, do you remember this (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=70031) already solved problem ... at first it was on same (false) diagnosis!
Everything is possible.

Quote:
EDIT: Now one thing bugging me ... Can it happen a CPU instruction with bad timing, once repaired (if ever), causes errors in some of the "already repaired" demos?!
Only if there is some other bug and both bugs cancel each other.

Quote:
Just thinking ...
What would be the fastest way to check does the all CPU instructions use correct timings?
Is it possible to print out the values and compare it with values with those in a book?
Or maybe make some program that will save timings from a real A500 and then compare these values on WinUAE?
There is no documentation that shows cycle-exact timings (except 68000 microcode in US patent document which unfortunately is from some pre-production variant and may have differences) and instruction internal timing can't be timed with software.

Each instruction variant, including address modes should be checked because 68000 is microcoded CPU, unexpected differences are possible.

It will take too much time and it is easy to make mistakes when analyzing results. Testing existing programs is much easier.

Madness 2 / Anarchy still seems to be the best test case because error is not small (= it has to be instruction that is executed many times).

Quote:
EDIT2: Just tested the demo Last A500 (Demo) by Oblivion again with 68010, 68020 and 68030 CPUs on same A500 freq. with CE=ON ... got exactly same glitches on rotation cube part as with 68000! ... Is it possible that all emulated CPUs suffer from the same timing problem?!

EDIT3: But one interesting case: On the demo Hi Freaks (Intro) by Supplex & The Silents ... when using 68010 instead 68000, problem is gone!!!
It still isn't interesting and it won't help. It won't really narrow down possible problem, unless you start assuming and I won't (at least not too much).

btw, shifted scrollers should be 100% fixed now in today's winuae.zip

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 01 November 2013 at 21:59.
Toni Wilen is online now  
Old 01 November 2013, 22:56   #299
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
Thanks on answer, though did not expected any as those were only my loud thinkings.

Btw, great news regarding shifted scrollers being fixed ... will test it tomorrow ... as my laptop is not currently available.

EDIT: I never liked to write on a small touch screen!

Last edited by amilo3438; 02 November 2013 at 13:47. Reason: corrections in text
amilo3438 is offline  
Old 02 November 2013, 13:43   #300
amilo3438
Amiga 500 User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: EU
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
btw, shifted scrollers should be 100% fixed now in today's winuae.zip
It seems that the shifted scrollers fix might damaged "something"!

Megademo by Intuition ... WinUAE test 2013-10-31 (pic.1) and test 2013-11-02 (pic.2)...?!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Intuition-Megademo_003.png
Views:	103
Size:	21.8 KB
ID:	37633   Click image for larger version

Name:	Intuition-Megademo_004.png
Views:	95
Size:	30.9 KB
ID:	37634  

Last edited by amilo3438; 02 November 2013 at 13:49.
amilo3438 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Problematic GVP A530 Turbo Mogsy support.Hardware 22 13 November 2012 19:12
Problematic thread? prowler project.EAB 5 28 October 2011 00:06
Problematic Holiday Lemmings 94 demo disk MethodGit support.Games 19 08 November 2010 03:56
Problematic slaves list keropi project.Killergorilla's WHD packs 44 28 November 2008 12:46
Looking for two demos... eternalcrusader request.Demos 3 01 August 2006 08:57

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.29335 seconds with 12 queries