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Old 10 March 2016, 19:08   #421
dlfrsilver
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[QUOTE=Cpt. Hindsight;1076773]Our french friend is writing about biased bullshit.

Absolutely, because the c64 fanboys legion is so much in love that somebody outside must tell them the truth.

Contrary to most c64 users, i have both machines, will most of them only have their unique machine to bable about.

The c64 pays its 50 fps_smooth_scroll shit by slowness. Like i said earlier, it's 8 bits machines, you can't have it all.

To the c64 fanboys : go buy a CPC, compare, and come back !

PS : Cpt Hindsight, don't you have any crap advise to give to people elsewhere ?

PS2 : you watch too much south Park !
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Old 10 March 2016, 19:34   #422
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You guys are ridiculous.
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Old 10 March 2016, 19:39   #423
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Couldn't resist

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Old 10 March 2016, 20:10   #424
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tai pan was way better on amstrad ruther c 64
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Old 10 March 2016, 20:13   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepinos View Post
tai pan was way better on amstrad ruther c 64
My poor Pepinos, the CPC version is a butt ugly port from the C64.
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Old 10 March 2016, 20:13   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepinos View Post
tai pan was way better on amstrad ruther c 64
Which part was better ? The blocky scroll when sailing ? The squeeky music? The c64 version wasn't much but at least the music was great and the eyes didn't hurt when it scrolled
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Old 10 March 2016, 20:13   #427
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The only think that Amstrad did right is the all in one experience.
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Old 10 March 2016, 21:01   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
However, what i don't really understand, is that during the test i made between Robocop c64 (it uses freedload) and Robocop CPC (use a speed of 1700 bauds for the main code, and 2000 bauds for the data blocks, my CPC 464 loaded the main code and finished before the c64 (this one got 20 seconds in advance in order to be fair lol !). However, the CPC finished his loading 44 seconds before the c64 !
Ohhhh, really.. Does it now...
Well, this game happens to have both C64 and Amstrad tape loading sequences on Youtube. In full, no edits.

Let's see, the C64 as seen [ Show youtube player ], loads the game and level data in 5 minutes and 45 seconds start to finish.

The Amstrad CPC on the other hand, seen [ Show youtube player ], takes a full 9 minutes and 18 seconds to load. Taking roughly two times as long to load... Which means your claims of side-by-side loading are quite obviously false.

But wait, thats not all!
Thanks to the video, we can do better - we can compare speed of loading by looking at the time the loading screens take to load. Because these are of a known size, we can figure out just how many bytes are loaded in what timeframe.

First up, the C64: it starts loading the picture at 2:11 and takes until 2:33 to finish, for a total of 22 seconds. The picture is a standard multicolour bitmap, which takes up 9.000 bytes of RAM, so it is loading at about 409 bytes per second.

Next, the Amstrad: it starts loading the picture at 0:45 and takes until 1:55 to finish, for a total of 70 seconds. The picture is 4 colour, 320x200, which takes up 16.000 bytes of RAM*, so it is loading at about 229 bytes per second.

In other words, not only is the C64 done loading much quicker overall, it also can be seen to objectively load in data at nearly twice the speed of the Amstrad by looking at the time it takes to load in the loading pictures.

*) 320x200x2 BPP/8 = 16.000 bytes
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Old 10 March 2016, 21:18   #429
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CPC is like IBM PC but instead 8088 there is a Z80A (graphics capabilities are quite comparable as MC6845 is used as CRTC same as in CGA), so main difference is added AY to generate sound...
Complexity of VIC-II and SID makes C64 hard to beat even with theoretically slower CPU (but speed difference between Z80A and C64 is not so significant).
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Old 10 March 2016, 21:26   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roondar View Post
Ohhhh, really.. Does it now...
Well, this game happens to have both C64 and Amstrad tape loading sequences on Youtube. In full, no edits.
it's better to have the real hardware handy, and it happens i have both.

Quote:
Let's see, the C64 as seen [ Show youtube player ], loads the game and level data in 5 minutes and 45 seconds start to finish.
That's more or less the same amount of time needed for batman the movie on c64.

EDIT : are you fucking kidding me ? The guy is using a cart to accelerate the whole process !!! That's once again a lot of biased bullshit, i'm doing my tests with the basic hardware !!!!!

Quote:
The Amstrad CPC on the other hand, seen [ Show youtube player ], takes a full 9 minutes and 18 seconds to load. Taking roughly two times as long to load... Which means your claims of side-by-side loading are quite obviously false.
Of course it takes 9 mn 18 seconds, you've picked the 128kb tape version, which is loading the whole game in memory + the digital voices !!

The 64k version on tape is not loading in such an amount of time, it loads in 6 mn.

Next when i load Robocop on my C64, i give it 20 secondes for free, and even with this, my 464 finished to load the main code + data block 1 before the c64 version.

I verified it yesterday evening !

Quote:
But wait, thats not all!
Well i think that's it !

Quote:
Thanks to the video, we can do better - we can compare speed of loading by looking at the time the loading screens take to load. Because these are of a known size, we can figure out just how many bytes are loaded in what timeframe.

First up, the C64: it starts loading the picture at 2:11 and takes until 2:33 to finish, for a total of 22 seconds. The picture is a standard multicolour bitmap, which takes up 9.000 bytes of RAM, so it is loading at about 409 bytes per second.
It wrong here. On my C64 and datasette connected, the title screen is certainly not taking 22 seconds to load, it takes far more time to load !

Quote:
Next, the Amstrad: it starts loading the picture at 0:45 and takes until 1:55 to finish, for a total of 70 seconds. The picture is 4 colour, 320x200, which takes up 16.000 bytes of RAM*, so it is loading at about 229 bytes per second.
Once again i don't know where you picked your numbers, but the robocop CPC title screen takes way more than 70 seconds to load.

The only right numbers are the screen size, colors, and screen resolution.

I'm not surprised how wrong the c64 users are if they actually refer to the youtube videos.

I have the WAV files for both computers, CPC and C64 and the result on original hardware is completely different.

Quote:
In other words, not only is the C64 done loading much quicker overall, it also can be seen to objectively load in data at nearly twice the speed of the Amstrad by looking at the time it takes to load in the loading pictures.

*) 320x200x2 BPP/8 = 16.000 bytes
You're basing yourself on emulated software, i'm testing on the real machines, and my c64 is fully revised (computer + datasette).

And you finally didn't answered me about my question :

Why is the game loading faster on CPC (real hardware), than on the c64 version, when this one is encoded at 3000 bauds when the CPC version is only encoded at 1700 bauds for the main code and 2000 bauds for the data blocks ?

Please go on, tell now (instead of using inaccurate emulators videos).

Last edited by dlfrsilver; 10 March 2016 at 21:45.
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Old 10 March 2016, 22:52   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
it's better to have the real hardware handy, and it happens i have both.

That's more or less the same amount of time needed for batman the movie on c64.

EDIT : are you fucking kidding me ? The guy is using a cart to accelerate the whole process !!! That's once again a lot of biased bullshit, i'm doing my tests with the basic hardware !!!!!
You are an idiot. Commercial tape loaders are in no way accelerated by cartridges on the Commodore 64. They can't do that because the tape never runs any faster. End of story.

Quote:
Of course it takes 9 mn 18 seconds, you've picked the 128kb tape version, which is loading the whole game in memory + the digital voices !!

The 64k version on tape is not loading in such an amount of time, it loads in 6 mn.
Which makes the 64K version load in 15 seconds SLOWER than the C64 does (it takes 5:45). Thanks for proving my point, yet again.

Quote:
It wrong here. On my C64 and datasette connected, the title screen is certainly not taking 22 seconds to load, it takes far more time to load !
I said loading picture, not title screen.

Quote:
Once again i don't know where you picked your numbers, but the robocop CPC title screen takes way more than 70 seconds to load.
Again, loading picture, not title screen. You know, that thing that just so happens to load between the two numbers of minutes and seconds I gave.

Really, it's not that complicated.

Quote:
The only right numbers are the screen size, colors, and screen resolution.
And all the other ones as well, but hey - keep pretending it isn't.
(229 bytes a second * remaining time after finishing loading the loader picture = about 108KB loaded by the Amstrad, which fits nicely. For the C64, at the time it has left 409 bytes a second comes to about 50KB loaded in, which again fits just fine).

Quote:
I'm not surprised how wrong the c64 users are if they actually refer to the youtube videos.
Except they're actually right. But hey, keep pretending.

Quote:
I have the WAV files for both computers, CPC and C64 and the result on original hardware is completely different.
No it's not. I'm done listening to you making stuff up.


Quote:
You're basing yourself on emulated software, i'm testing on the real machines, and my c64 is fully revised (computer + datasette).
The C64 video is on real hardware. As for the Amstrad, I'd expect the emulator to do the same as the real deal, or it would be a pretty useless thing.

Quote:
And you finally didn't answered me about my question :

Why is the game loading faster on CPC (real hardware), than on the c64 version, when this one is encoded at 3000 bauds when the CPC version is only encoded at 1700 bauds for the main code and 2000 bauds for the data blocks ?

Please go on, tell now (instead of using inaccurate emulators videos).
Well, it doesn't.

You yourself said so, it takes 6 minutes for 64KB version. The C64 only takes 5:45 (and he could have cut 10 seconds of that if he had pressed a button when the tape title appeared rather than waiting). Which is less.

Last edited by roondar; 10 March 2016 at 23:06.
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Old 10 March 2016, 22:53   #432
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dlfrsilver is still going strong I see
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Old 10 March 2016, 22:56   #433
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Old 10 March 2016, 23:54   #434
dlfrsilver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roondar View Post
You are an idiot. Commercial tape loaders are in no way accelerated by cartridges on the Commodore 64. They can't do that because the tape never runs any faster. End of story.
You are the idiot in this story.

You're forking me a rubbish youtube link of a c64 user using a fast load cart.

In this video, the music during the loading and ingame are not normal, and played faster than on my own c64.

The only way to achieve this is to use a cart like the Epyx Fast load or any other available.

Now, if you're clever enough, you know that since i live in France, my c64 is a PAL model and not an NTSC one.

So if you try to compare a PAL RGB CPC loading a tape with a c64 NTSC loading a tape, you're really a troll !

i'm comparing basic configurations, not enhanced, modernized and whatnot.

Anyone looking the video link you posted can just confirm the music is totally out of sync.

If i used the same game with the CPC custom 7000 bauds tape scheme, do you really think that would have been fair, and do you really think the soupped up c64 shown in your video would match ?

It's very easy to trick and fake, and that's what you choosed to do, but i'm not dupe at all and all the other people looking the video and knowing the game on c64 just know it !

Quote:
Which makes the 64K version load in 15 seconds SLOWER than the C64 does (it takes 5:45). Thanks for proving my point, yet again.
In your videos. The link for the CPC version you showed concern the 128k version, which of course load longer since all the levels are loaded after the main code.

Pick instead the game for CPC 464 64K, the equivalent configuration of the C64.

You proved nothing. My CPC 464 still finish to load Robocop before my C64.

Repeating a lie 3 times doesn't make it a truth pal !

Quote:
I said loading picture, not title screen.
Don't play with words. The loading picture is basically the title screen.

What you call the title screen is in fact the main menu.

It's not exactly the same thing, so word things with appropriate words !

Quote:
Again, loading picture, not title screen. You know, that thing that just so happens to load between the two numbers of minutes and seconds I gave.
Which are wrong ! What you call the loading picture, and that we call title screen on CPC (the famous 16k screen during which the main game code is loaded), never takes the amount of time you gave.

Your numbers are based a modernized/cheated/accelerated c64 running faster than my c64 with no cart, no shit, no expansion whatsoever.

If you think your video link is actually a standard c64 loading Robocop, you're either naive or a moron, make your choice !

Quote:
And all the other ones as well, but hey - keep pretending it isn't.
(229 bytes a second * remaining time after finishing loading the loader picture = about 108KB loaded by the Amstrad, which fits nicely. For the C64, at the time it has left 409 bytes a second comes to about 50KB loaded in, which again fits just fine).
Your explanation is completely false.

Your c64 link is about a c64 64K accelerated loading Robocop

Your CPC link is about a CPC 464 with 64K expansion, loading the 128K version of the game, which of course loads longer during 10 mn (yeah and not 9 mn).

Now if i pick my CPC 464 with 64k only, the game finish its loading before my c64, you being happy or not, satisfied or not !

Quote:
Except they're actually right. But hey, keep pretending.
You're the one using 2 not comparable videos, and you pretend to be right ?

You're just showing that not only you don't own a CPC, but you don't know it nor the games running on it and how long they load.

The opposite about me doesn't apply, i have both machines, end of the story !

Quote:
The C64 video is on real hardware. As for the Amstrad, I'd expect the emulator to do the same as the real deal, or it would be a pretty useless thing.
You're wrong, i told you from the start that your videos were not only incorrect, but you choosed the wrong ones.

Of course a c64 will load faster a title screen + main code + 1 level when a CPC with a 64k expansion (the guy used PARADOS + 128k config instead of the Basic 1.0 64k of a standard CPC 464!) with this Robocop game is programmed to not stop the loading after the Block 1, but continue to load Block 2,3,4 during 10 minutes !

It's not only about being wrong about the C64 config you pick in example, the CPC config in your video totally not standard !

It's dishonest, for me as well as for the people looking and checking.

Quote:
You yourself said so, it takes 6 minutes for 64KB version.
well if i start from a recorded WAV, it's indeed 6 minutes of loading.

If i make my 464 load the original tape, it's less than 6 mn ! Because the CPC 464 tape motor is rolling faster as soon as the standard loader block have loaded.

Quote:
The C64 only takes 5:45 (and he could have cut 10 seconds of that if he had pressed a button when the tape title appeared rather than waiting). Which is less.
i press right away with no wait the space bar, and the tape continue to load.

But as said, i gave my c64 20 seconds of advance on start to be fair. And the CPC finish always first !
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Old 11 March 2016, 00:08   #435
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This thread must have run its course if it's come down to users insulting one another.
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