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Old 10 March 2016, 12:46   #401
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Oh it's once again a rubbish c64 port ; Even in mode 1, the choice of colors is nothing less than an idiocy !

PS : FRGCB is reknown to be a c64-ass-sucker, totally partial.

I read quite a lot of his comparison test, and it's quite often bullshit.
Thanks for the kind words, my fellow French retrogaming enthusiast. It's such a happy thing to have your audience tracked by these link click sources, so I can read whatever yet another Amstrad fanboy has to say in defence of their beloved machine. Sure, Amstrad was a big thing in France, you're partial to it, much like the Commodore machines were the biggest thing in Finland. You've managed to find out about the CPC's capabilities much more than I have, because I have no interest in hardware or programming. I have no interest even in finding out the secrets of how the C64 works, because I have no time for that shit. I've got better things to do with my life than to work out why a certain bit of code makes your program act in a certain way. I'm only interested in playing games, and finding out which versions work best for the game's advantage. If you can so easily call my almost three years of HEAVY WORK on this blog that I do as a public service - no one is paying me anything to do this - partial bullshit, then I suggest you write your own damn blog, and you'd better make it at least as comprehensive as I have done mine.

All you others who have used my blog as a source of information, I thank you very much, because that's what I have been writing it for.
 
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Old 10 March 2016, 13:00   #402
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Actually the FRGCB blog is one of the finest retro sites on the internet. Calling it bullshit is really insulting. I don't think the reviews are biased at all... they are all spot-on in my mind. Keep up the good work!

Oh and Skaepoy, you should mention the new Commando Arcade for c64 in your review Should get a few more points...
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Old 10 March 2016, 13:32   #403
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Why even compare c64 to CPC? Except the fancy - contrast insane colors (that will destroy your eyes), c64 runs circles around the CPC.
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Old 10 March 2016, 14:20   #404
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I've been having to do another Updates entry for a while now, even though I promised earlier I wouldn't do such a thing again. The thing is, there have been so many new revelations coming up lately about certain games that have been written about on the blog, that just updating the specific entries wouldn't give them a fair display. That said, Commando Arcade was mentioned in my previous Updates entry.
http://frgcb.blogspot.fi/2014/09/ret...f-updates.html
I think they updated Commando Arcade since then, though, so even this update is a bit outdated.
But thanks for the kind words, tomcat666.

I don't know why anyone would compare the two computers, though. They're two almost entirely different computers, and only the software released for them makes them connected in any way. Amstrad certainly has its advantages, but they haven't been seen utilised all that well very often due to lazy and rushed Spectrum ports. If anything, some of the exclusive games, or those that were made originally for the Amstrad, are worth digging out. But that's pretty much the case for almost every other game out there on any machine - MSX, C64, NES, Spectrum, Atari ST, Amiga, Sega, etc. Unfortunately for us linguistically challenged people, a large percentage of Amstrad-exclusive titles were made for French, Spanish or Italian audiences. The same problem can be seen with Japanese-only releases for Famicom, Sega, NEC PC's and others, but at least there's a good deal of people doing translations of Japanese games, which is something I haven't seen nearly as often on, say, French or Spanish games. One might as well do comparisons of nationalities, and get just as interesting results as from comparing games on different computers and consoles.
 
Old 10 March 2016, 14:29   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaepoy View Post
Thanks for the kind words, my fellow French retrogaming enthusiast. It's such a happy thing to have your audience tracked by these link click sources, so I can read whatever yet another Amstrad fanboy has to say in defence of their beloved machine. Sure, Amstrad was a big thing in France, you're partial to it, much like the Commodore machines were the biggest thing in Finland. You've managed to find out about the CPC's capabilities much more than I have, because I have no interest in hardware or programming. I have no interest even in finding out the secrets of how the C64 works, because I have no time for that shit. I've got better things to do with my life than to work out why a certain bit of code makes your program act in a certain way. I'm only interested in playing games, and finding out which versions work best for the game's advantage. If you can so easily call my almost three years of HEAVY WORK on this blog that I do as a public service - no one is paying me anything to do this - partial bullshit, then I suggest you write your own damn blog, and you'd better make it at least as comprehensive as I have done mine.

All you others who have used my blog as a source of information, I thank you very much, because that's what I have been writing it for.
You did a lot of work, considering the amount of text and time per game.
But really, i've never read so biased comparisons on games.

Reading that a game like trantor which has huge sprites, and a great scrolling coded by David Perry (MD disney's Aladdin father) being categorized as "an uninteresting game, which a choppy scrolling".

If a game has a choppy scrolling, it's clearly not this one, and worse, how dare you say that the ST version is above the CPC one ??

Trantor on ST is an insult itself to the machine. This one has hideous graphics and is really awful to play.

Same for Batman the movie. I have both CPC and C64 at home, and let me tell you this, if you want to actually add it to your blog :

The c64 scrolling is smooth and slow, while the CPC version is a bit jerky and fast.

That's not an opinion, i made both machines running side by side !

It's the actual fact. I note however that you noticed that the c64 version has absolutely no AI. The enemies are dub as fuck, they don't even shoot 8 ways, or climb the ladders to get you. And the c64 version is graphically at best a little more colored than the speccy version. The CPC version has always been the best 8 bits version, and that's normal since the assets were made on an Atari ST in 16 colors with the ocean internal tool.

The same apply to robocop. Same as Batman The Movie. Smooth and slow scrolling on c64, a bit jerky and faster on the CPC.

I excuse you however about the CPC emulators you used, because unfortunately, there is a great chance you mostly used winape, which is not the best/more accurate emulator for CPC.

For accurate emulation on CPC : sugarbox ! The rest is inaccurate, and it doesn't reflect exactly the real machine behaviour.

Congrats for doing such a huge work for describing the games, and thumb down for the partial/inexact/wet finger appreciations.

I have many others duties tied to the communauty (Amiga/ST/CPC), so sorry i have no time to invest on such a big task.

However, since we can post on your blog, you will of course have contrary or contradictory opinion, views, call them whatever you want in total opposition to what you think yourself about the games.

But that's a part of the game, so live with it !
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Old 10 March 2016, 14:32   #406
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Why even compare c64 to CPC? Except the fancy - contrast insane colors (that will destroy your eyes), c64 runs circles around the CPC.
I can't play more than half an hour on my c64. The color scheme used kill my eyes.

However, i can play many hour either on CPC, Amiga or..... ST with no problem
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Old 10 March 2016, 14:36   #407
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
I can't play more than half an hour on my c64. The color scheme used kill my eyes.

However, i can play many hour either on CPC, Amiga or..... ST with no problem
Well, blindness does that to you... you can't see normal colours at all, but VERY bright ones you can make out, barely but still...
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Old 10 March 2016, 14:51   #408
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I can't play more than half an hour on my c64. The color scheme used kill my eyes.

However, i can play many hour either on CPC, Amiga or..... ST with no problem
Maybe you should check again? Batman on c64 has larger play area from CPC, is faster, scrolling is silk smooth, sprites move more smooth, and sound quality is around 10 years ahead of CPC at best? CPC wins only on palette with more happy colors.
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Old 10 March 2016, 15:08   #409
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That's fine for you but this wasn't the standard.
I forgot that there's an EU standard for distribution of computers versus consoles.
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Old 10 March 2016, 15:10   #410
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You did a lot of work, considering the amount of text and time per game.
But really, i've never read so biased comparisons on games.
Well, talking about biased, my basis for doing a retaliation sort of a thing on the comparison websites front were a couple of old sites, the other of which has been recently taken offline probably by the provider (it was heavily C64-based, very blue and simplistic), with very little text to speak for itself. The other one is this one with no text at all, just a Spectrum-biased introductory text...
http://www.gamestage.net/english/test.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Reading that a game like trantor which has huge sprites, and a great scrolling coded by David Perry (MD disney's Aladdin father) being categorized as "an uninteresting game, which a choppy scrolling".

If a game has a choppy scrolling, it's clearly not this one, and worse, how dare you say that the ST version is above the CPC one ??

Trantor on ST is an insult itself to the machine. This one has hideous graphics and is really awful to play.
I agree to some degree. The game is an insult to gamers who want some actual quality content. I dare say the ST version is above the CPC one, because that's the result of my playtesting. I don't give a damn who made it, if I don't like it. Aladdin was an uninteresting piece of garbage, so is Trantor. Dave Perry is the most overrated game developer of all time. Or perhaps I'm just an oddity because I don't like his games. And I stand by my words, the scrolling is choppy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Same for Batman the movie. I have both CPC and C64 at home, and let me tell you this, if you want to actually add it to your blog :

The c64 scrolling is smooth and slow, while the CPC version is a bit jerky and fast.

That's not an opinion, i made both machines running side by side !

It's the actual fact. I note however that you noticed that the c64 version has absolutely no AI. The enemies are dub as fuck, they don't even shoot 8 ways, or climb the ladders to get you. And the c64 version is graphically at best a little more colored than the speccy version. The CPC version has always been the best 8 bits version, and that's normal since the assets were made on an Atari ST in 16 colors with the ocean internal tool.

The same apply to robocop. Same as Batman The Movie. Smooth and slow scrolling on c64, a bit jerky and faster on the CPC.

I excuse you however about the CPC emulators you used, because unfortunately, there is a great chance you mostly used winape, which is not the best/more accurate emulator for CPC.

For accurate emulation on CPC : sugarbox ! The rest is inaccurate, and it doesn't reflect exactly the real machine behaviour.
Thanks for the recommendation, I've never heard of Sugarbox until this day. For some reason, it hasn't been mentioned in any other retrogaming forum I've frequented, of which there are plenty enough.

As for the scrolling being slow and smooth on C64, opposed to fast and jerky on the CPC? Well, I'd say the smooth bit is a win, because jerky scrolling makes it more difficult to see any movement properly. As for the AI, I can't remember anymore what I wrote in the comparison, but I do recall wasn't particularly happy about how the enemies worked in the Spectrum and Amstrad versions, either. Just because they have good AI, doesn't mean that the game is any better to play for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Congrats for doing such a huge work for describing the games, and thumb down for the partial/inexact/wet finger appreciations.

I have many others duties tied to the communauty (Amiga/ST/CPC), so sorry i have no time to invest on such a big task.

However, since we can post on your blog, you will of course have contrary or contradictory opinion, views, call them whatever you want in total opposition to what you think yourself about the games.

But that's a part of the game, so live with it !
Yeah, everybody has opinions and preferences, that's how it goes. Which is exactly why everybody should do their own comparison blogs, if they're not happy about mine. Stop complaining about trivial crap and be more polite when dealing with people. Of course, you're French, so you fit the stereotype, but insults don't give the best results when trying to convince people to play with you accordingly to your preferences.
 
Old 10 March 2016, 15:22   #411
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Nothing that would have convinced me to buy such a machine. And the most people thought the same if you look at the sales figures here. MSX machines didn't sold well in Europe.
That sounds suspiciously much like the "C64 didn't sold well in France" argument.
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Old 10 March 2016, 15:24   #412
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Sure it does because it's the truth. The CPC release was way too late and the MSX too exotic. Not sure why the CPC was exactly the number one in France. Maybe it was marketed as a business machine, more affordable than IBM computer. And what Denis told us the C64 was extremely pricey in France compared to other markets.

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Old 10 March 2016, 15:25   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody View Post
Maybe you should check again?
I was surprised because i thought the c64 was faster than the CPC version, and it appears it's not the case. However, it's 50 fps smooth on c64 but slow.

Quote:
Batman on c64 has larger play area from CPC,
Exact.

Quote:
is faster,
Wrong, go buy yourself a CPC and load the game on both machines.

Quote:
scrolling is silk smooth,
Exact, but slow.

Quote:
sprites move more smooth,

Exact, but their animation is cheesy. On CPC they have more sprite frames, and those have an AI. On C64 they're dumb at their best !

Quote:
and sound quality is around 10 years ahead of CPC at best?
Sorry, but not on this game. The music on the c64 version is cheesy, with no relief, it all fall flat.

Sorry but the music on this one doesn't honor the machine. They just tried to klonk and convert quickly the YM tune without using the SID specifics.


Quote:
CPC wins only on palette with more happy colors.
Not hard at all, the CPC assets have made created on a 16 bits machine (the Atari ST) and not from the others 8 bits computer.

I have the 2 computers side by side. And the c64 scroll is slower than the CPC.

You don't believe me ? Make you a favour, buy a CPC, connect it to a CRT screen and you will confirm what i said.

The c64 scroll is smooth but slower than the jerky & fast_scroll of the CPC on the game Batman the movie.

Robocop on c64 has exactly the same problem. It's 50 fps and smooth, but the scroll is slower than the one of the CPC version which is also jerky & faster than the one of the c64. The CPC also has bigger sprites (independantly of the resolution used, and with more animation frames, this thanks to the Ocean Internal EDSPRITE tool).
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Old 10 March 2016, 15:31   #414
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Now you are being ridiculous. Most of the good Konami or Compile games are from 1988-90. Many people had an Amiga at that time (me too). Some were Japanese only (and got fan translations later), like Snatcher or Metal Gear 2. I'm a great FM-Towns/Sharp X68000 fan. This machines had indeed 1:1 Arcade ports, way better than on MSX2. Also the C64 had great Multiplayer games like the Epyx Games series, tons of great adventures, simulations, strategy games etc. Nothing the MSX had in this quantity of quality.

Though i got a PC-Engine from an import dealer 1989. The real 8bit (despite the modern 16bit graphic chips) arcade champ and affordable compared with highend machines like the Sharp X68000.
Zanac is 1986. Vampire Killer is 1986. Penguin Adventure is 1986. And I didn't have an Amiga before 1991. The 80s, to me, were all about the 8 bits machines. 16 bits machines, to me, only appeared in the 90s.

MSX also had World Games, California Games, Winter Games, Winter Games 2, The Games: Winter Edition.......... though some of those were Spectrum ports, the games were still there.

Really mate, I am doing all of this because it's hilarious to see you guys losing your heads on a 8bits battle. But really, I don't think you know the MSX library properly at all. The C64 is a fine machine, I am pretty sure the CPC is a fine machine (I didn't play a lot of games on it, but many of the ones I played I found to be pretty good), the MSX is a fine machine, the PC-88 is a fine machine... all of those had great libraries of games, not just about 10 to 20 good games. And if we keep it going, we'll find arguments to both dismiss or hail any of those machines easily, but we are going to defend whatever has most place in our "nostalgic hearts", the one we had when we were younger. Skaepoy is the one who made more sense in most of this discussion

But ok, keep it going All this is making as much sense as the PS4 vs XBOX ONE battles, or the old MEGA-DRIVE VS SNES battles ...
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Old 10 March 2016, 15:35   #415
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Sure it does because it's the truth. The CPC release was way too late and the MSX too exotic.
An information found from 1986 about the CPC sales figures :

An international American research firm (INTERNATIONAL DATA Corporation), has discovered that Amstrad has sold more computers in Europe in 1986 that any other manufacturer, IBM and Commodore together.

The british company has sold a total of 1750 000 machines, One third of all the computers sold in Europe.

True, those numbers mix both family computers and pro computers. But the performance remains very impressive.

Commodore, which like Amstrad is selling family computers and PC compatible machines, is dethroned by its british competitor with
1 200 000 machines sold.

This article was dated from june 1987.
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Old 10 March 2016, 15:38   #416
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True. But only for one year. The C64 had constant sales figures till the end (1993/94).
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Old 10 March 2016, 16:06   #417
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AFAIK, the C64 was still selling considerably when Commodore went bust. That's quite impressive.
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Old 10 March 2016, 16:17   #418
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@Shatterhand:

I can see no battle here. Actually correcting many things Denis said. You brought the MSX into discussion. An isolated machine, mainly sucessfull in Japan. We are talking about the European market here as i said once before.

Quote:
MSX also had World Games, California Games, Winter Games, Winter Games 2, The Games: Winter Edition.......... though some of those were Spectrum ports, the games were still there.
Spectrum ports from C64 originated games. They are pathetic on MSX. I like your passion for the MSX. But stay at least focused on games where the MSX shows its power (e.g. Space Manbow).

btw: I've tested hundreds of MSX/MSX2 games the last 15 years in emulation (Gamebase MSX). Especially the MSX1 is flodded with gazillions of horrible ZX Spectrum ports. And then there are many Japanese games which looks like homebrew shit. Single colored sprites, this awful scrolling or block shifting, music you better turn off etc. The MSX2 machine (released in 1986!) was more interesting. But then again, in quantity the MSX doesn't have a tenth of the good games what other machines had. And when you find something interesting it's Japanese only, e.g. Phantasie II.

Interesting read:

https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url

Didn't knew about the ram problems. That's probably why many MSX1 games looks/sounds like shit. Hardly surprising, 32KB isn't much for games. On the other hand: The annually C64 16KB cartridge competition shows what you can do on capable computers, programmed by homebrew professionals.

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Old 10 March 2016, 18:40   #419
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I think we all know that the C64 was a fantastic games machine. I still play them now, though more by emulation than real hardware. I had a C64 way back when, after I outgrew my 48k Spectrum. It didn't last though, when the 128k +2 Spectrum came out, I sold the C64 and 30-odd games so I could buy that instead - and never regretted it, tbh.

But then, I don't play many games so the Spectrum was clearly superior to me at the time.

D.
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Old 10 March 2016, 18:54   #420
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Our french friend is writing about biased bullshit.

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