English Amiga Board Amiga Lore


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 05 March 2016, 14:35   #241
lordofchaos
TinkerTailorContentMaker

lordofchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bedfordshire
Age: 39
Posts: 1,002
Ah. Got me excited there for a second.
lordofchaos is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 05 March 2016, 14:40   #242
Retro-Nerd
Missile Command Champion

Retro-Nerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 45
Posts: 10,628
http://abload.de/gallery.php?key=o3kRY69q

C64G model ( = less saturated colors output by default) and the saturation was mostly the default setting on my Sony Trinitron. Doesn't look "washed out" to me. Just normal.
Retro-Nerd is offline  
Old 05 March 2016, 14:58   #243
turrican9
Registered User
turrican9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Norway
Age: 40
Posts: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
http://abload.de/gallery.php?key=o3kRY69q

C64G model ( = less saturated colors output by default) and the saturation was mostly the default setting on my Sony Trinitron. Doesn't look "washed out" to me. Just normal.
Looks rather nice and colourful. I have a C64c. Of course I can increase the colours/saturation on my crt TV. I think when people said "washed out" colours it is more because many games are just made in that "metallic look" style which make them appear as washed out colours. But in general I think the C64 needs the saturation really high on most TVs to get vibrant colours.
turrican9 is offline  
Old 05 March 2016, 15:30   #244
Dunny
Registered User

Dunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansel75 View Post
And all the 'what if scenarios", and 'excuses for lame CPC versions', with it's lousy ports accounting for a lot of the crap games on CPC.
But that's also the excuse given whenever a C64 game wasn't up to scratch - it was rushed, it was a poor port, it was a lazy coder.

Quote:
It was still smooth and playable despite lacking features, what would you prefer, smooth/playable but missing a few things, or jerky just for the sake of making it accurate?
Also once again, C64 R-type was rushed and made in 6weeks, but still played better then the CPC and Speccy versions!
Again, I think you're being a touch subjective - the Spectrum version was certainly playable; there's a good reason it won awards from all the major Speccy magazines back in the day.

In fact, it was an amazing achievement all things considered - the gameplay was fast, colourful (which was the reason for the jerky movement due to attribute clash being minimised) at a time when monochrome was the predominant style, and it managed to get a very reasonable representation of the arcade machine's levels in to boot. It was very popular, and rightly so.

Note that I'm not saying that the C64 version is bad - it's not, but as it misses a lot of what made R-Type unique at the time (such as missiles, extra pods, quite a lot of the more unique enemy types) it looked and played like a lot of other horizontal shooters of the time.

Quote:
It seems that some people prefer more colourful/jerky graphics over smoother gameplay, puzzling!
Some of us appreciated the immense effort that went into the port, I suppose. It's one of those times when nobody could level the excuses of laziness and poor porting at a big release.

And given the popularity of the game, it's hard to understand why, if gamers were only interested in 50hz scrolling and smooth movement, it wasn't roundly panned by the popular press.

D.
Dunny is offline  
Old 05 March 2016, 18:07   #245
dlfrsilver
CaptainM68K-SPS France
dlfrsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melun nearby Paris/France
Age: 40
Posts: 7,063
Send a message via MSN to dlfrsilver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
http://abload.de/gallery.php?key=o3kRY69q

C64G model ( = less saturated colors output by default) and the saturation was mostly the default setting on my Sony Trinitron. Doesn't look "washed out" to me. Just normal.
I use a breadbin C64, and i also have a Sony Trinitron Screen.

With the lumafix and by changing the whole set of capacitors on the motherboard, the C64 get back its original "clean" display, but the colors are still washed out.

Just for fun, i plug it yesterday evening, and i launched Robocop.

The c64 version is full of conception errors :

For instance, the goal is to pass from one side of the level to the other, for this you have to respect a given time shown by the timer.

1st problem : the enemies never stop to respawn.

2nd problem : tied to the 1st one, since you can't get away with them, they shoot you and it's impossible to dodge their shots

3rd problem : tied to the 1st and 2nd, and as a consequence of these, this makes you unable to stay either alive or respect the timer

If you have still your energy, the timer is out, is the timer has enough remaining time, you die out of energy.

4rd problem : the playability is really loosy, robocop is at the same time a flying tin can and an anvil when walking on the ground. The fella is never doing what you exactly want from him.

5th problem : the music is good and is distracting the player from the actual game.

On the CPC version, you can't jump, but Robo is actually doing its job, (a true self mother of a tin can !), you can shoot a lot of enemies and have a luck to pass the levels without dying because you're too long to get ride of enemies or because you're out of energy. The enemies are very detailed, and they exist in a larger variety than on the C64 version.

The icing on the cake ? The C64 release has a whole level (or two) destroyed by corruption.....

And the CPC music is legendary ! Not a coincidence if Ariston paid a truckload of money to use it in their washing-machine advertisement !

The Poor Jon Dunn just did nightmare due to the money he never saw from this contract......

Next case : Batman the movie

The C64 release has a cheesy soundtrack (read : wubbish!), the playability make me think of a guy with a "Broom in the ass", rigidity like character, the enemies have no AI at all, they can't shoot you in diagonals, only horizontally. The scrolling is smooth but dog slow.

The CPC is as good as the 16 bits versions : enemies have an AI, they pursue you as much as they can, they can shoot you in every possible directions, the scrolling is slow moving, but otherwise fast when batman is balancing thru the screen, the sound effects are good, as is the music.

Next case : Total Recall

The C64 version has a nice little music on the start, but once you start to play, you can see it would be better called Total Rektal than total Recall.
The platform system is completely rubbish (and i pass on the colors!), you just never stop to hurt Doug Quaid on them.

The CPC version has a very nice music, better to my ears than the C64 one (well it was not too hard, the C64 music being just ok). Next the game got much more attention and work than the C64 version. You don't spend your time knocking your knees in the platforms, Quaid jumps and punch and shoot nicely all along.

Next case : Golden Axe

The C64 version of this game has one of the very best music available for a video game. Jeroen Tel of course Next, once you start to look at the screen, you wonder if someone has pooped and pissed on your screen (don't touch your TV, it's not her fault ! ).

The hot and cold shower fact : first they bring you a delicious "hors d'oeuvre", and once you have eaten, it's a shitfest on all the table. The game in itself is really awfull to look at and watch.

The CPC version has a correct rendition of the musical theme, not as good as the c64 version, but here is the deal : The graphics were done and the coding made by competent coders from Probe. The graphics in game are very near of the ST and Amiga version, and the sprites are cute and fully colored like the backgrounds. It has to be noted that the game on CPC has even the full outro in the end. A very good conversion.

Next case : Rick Dangerous II

The c64 version smells the spectrum version from the tones of colors used ingame. the intro music is nice but nothing spectacular. The playability is good and it's a quite pleasant game to play.

The CPC versions is a carbon copy of the Atari ST version. The music is nice enough for some YM2149 sound. The playability is very good, the animations too and the game is very pleasant to play all along as well.

Next case : Deliverance

The C64 version has a nice music but not that great on the title screen, and then in game, you get a 50fps scrolling with washed-out colors.
Really disappointing when you've seen the CPC version with the brilliants graphics made by Rafaelle Cecco (if you read us, thanks a lot!!!).

The CPC version of this game was the lead version (as usual with Cecco), the graphics are just beautiful, the game is very playable, full of nice YM musics and sound fx ingame. One of the CPC jewels.

Next case : Turrican

The C64 version is reknowned, that's quite normal since it's a great game on its own. Next, the graphics are really not great to my taste, even with its washed-out colors, the C64 is i think able to do way better than that.
The sound theme is quite good, but not the best i heard on this machine.
The playability is good, but for such different worlds inside the game it would have been better to have lots of colors. (that's why i prefer the amiga version).

The CPC version is a big surprise. Not only it's a CPC dedicated game, but the surface to explore is incredibly huge. The CPC version is based on the Amiga assets of the game, this because the c64 color scheme is rubbish aside the CPC one, the amiga version is a better source. And it shows in game : huge sprites, huge maps, very good playability, the scroll is slow, but it's properly tied to the screen. The whole result is a gem to own and play on CPC, the only bad point being the lack of music (the game is eating all the memory on 64K machine).

etc etc etc......
dlfrsilver is offline  
Old 05 March 2016, 18:12   #246
Retro-Nerd
Missile Command Champion

Retro-Nerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 45
Posts: 10,628
Turrican 1+2 are nearly unplayable on the CPC. Jerky, sluggish controls, ridiculous bad sfx, tiny display. Why do you still insist to say that they are good ports. Unbelievable. Honestly, Denis.

And for your washed out colors nonsense. No comment this time. I'm tired of it. Broken record, you know.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 05 March 2016 at 18:20.
Retro-Nerd is offline  
Old 05 March 2016, 19:41   #247
turrican9
Registered User
turrican9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Norway
Age: 40
Posts: 611
lol. Even if 25 years or more has passed the schoolyard fight between the C64, Spectrum, CPC, Amiga and Atari continues
turrican9 is offline  
Old 05 March 2016, 22:33   #248
dlfrsilver
CaptainM68K-SPS France
dlfrsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melun nearby Paris/France
Age: 40
Posts: 7,063
Send a message via MSN to dlfrsilver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Turrican 1+2 are nearly unplayable on the CPC. Jerky, sluggish controls, ridiculous bad sfx, tiny display. Why do you still insist to say that they are good ports. Unbelievable. Honestly, Denis.
Honestly, many CPC users love the turrican series. We're very proud and happy about those games on our machine. T2 has incredible parallax sequences, and T1 has animated tiles as background. Very good programming

Quote:
And for your washed out colors nonsense. No comment this time. I'm tired of it. Broken record, you know.
The washed-out nonsense is on screen whenever i power on my c64.
Yes broken record ! hehehe
dlfrsilver is offline  
Old 05 March 2016, 23:00   #249
Retro-Nerd
Missile Command Champion

Retro-Nerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 45
Posts: 10,628
Me, as a broken record: Action games are about smooth gameplay in every aspect. And Turrican on CPC doesn't have it. Trenz designed/created Turrican 1+2 on the C64 to push the machine to its limit. Both original games are only good on the Commodore machines. Every other port is crap, even the console ports (horrible unbalancend T1 on the Mega Drive and awful music/missing levels on the TurboGrafx-16).

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 05 March 2016 at 23:16.
Retro-Nerd is offline  
Old 06 March 2016, 00:44   #250
dlfrsilver
CaptainM68K-SPS France
dlfrsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melun nearby Paris/France
Age: 40
Posts: 7,063
Send a message via MSN to dlfrsilver
Quote:
And Turrican on CPC doesn't have it.
Just ask in the CPC communauty, a lot of people love the CPC ports, me included. I spent a lot of time playing this game, it was beautiful from start to the end.

Quote:
Trenz designed/created Turrican 1+2 on the C64 to push the machine to its limit.
the limit is not THIS far hehehe

Quote:
Both original games are only good on the Commodore machines.
The amiga version is the best of all for me, and just fabulous

Quote:
Every other port is crap, even the console ports (horrible unbalancend T1 on the Mega Drive and awful music/missing levels on the TurboGrafx-16).
Oh, how can i do not agree ? Indeed the console ports are really rubbish.
dlfrsilver is offline  
Old 06 March 2016, 01:59   #251
turrican9
Registered User
turrican9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Norway
Age: 40
Posts: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post

The amiga version is the best of all for me, and just fabulous
This I can agree with
turrican9 is offline  
Old 06 March 2016, 16:02   #252
dlfrsilver
CaptainM68K-SPS France
dlfrsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melun nearby Paris/France
Age: 40
Posts: 7,063
Send a message via MSN to dlfrsilver
well of course ! It has the best effects, great music and all the nice scrolling effect + the colors lacking on the C64 version
dlfrsilver is offline  
Old 06 March 2016, 16:20   #253
Retro-Nerd
Missile Command Champion

Retro-Nerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 45
Posts: 10,628
I don't get it. By your own logic you should prefer the ST versions. They are colorful but with crappy frame rates and awful music.

Of course the Amiga Turricans are the best because they push the hardware just like the C64 versions did. No need to explain that.
Retro-Nerd is offline  
Old 06 March 2016, 16:28   #254
tomcat666
Retro Freak

tomcat666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Slovenia
Age: 44
Posts: 1,059
I guess they don't have screaming bright colours that dlfrsilver likes... you know, those that make your eyes bleed. Everything else fits though
tomcat666 is offline  
Old 06 March 2016, 16:45   #255
dlfrsilver
CaptainM68K-SPS France
dlfrsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melun nearby Paris/France
Age: 40
Posts: 7,063
Send a message via MSN to dlfrsilver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
I don't get it. By your own logic you should prefer the ST versions. They are colorful but with crappy frame rates and awful music.
Well that's an interesting question in fact. Here is my answer on this matter :

About 8 bits machines, the main problem on those computers was having colors. So many 8 bit games have rubbish color schemes, or almost few or sometimes none. Having lots of colors was a luxury.

Also, since i talk about 8 bits machines, having very colored games was already a big feat considering the limited abilities of those computers.

I can forgive a computer so have 4,5,10 frames per second if it's an 8 bits machine, but will never accept that for a 16 bits computer.

I can forgive a computer to have a "limited" sound, considering the price i paid it, but not a 16 bits computer.

I can forgive a computer to have only a software scroll engine, but i won't accept that on a 16 bits computer.

However, i will never forgive an 8 bits computer to propose 50 fps scrolls, superior sound and music, and finally propose an horrible color scheme.

An 8 bit computer using the dressing of a 16 bits computer it's like picking a deudeuche and tune it to make it a ferrari, to me it's stupid.

My choice is either the deudeuche OR the ferrari, but not an half bastarded version of both.

So to answer finally your remark about the Atari ST, it's strictly the opposite side.

It's basically a 16 bits computer mimicking an 8 bits machine. Now you want to trade the ferrari for the deudeuche. To me it's unacceptable.

And this leads me to tell you this : That's why a lot of CPC owners went buying an Amiga.

The Amiga has bright colors reminding the CPC owners the bright graphics they had on their 8 bits machine, and added to this, all the great abilities required by a 16 bits computer (hard scroll, hard sprites, digital sound, and so on), as well as a great OS (the CPC basic was the best of all the 8 bits machine and far from all the others).

You see what i mean ? The ST is not the direct ascendancy of the CPC computer (it had more ram and another CPU than the z80), but a regression. The Amiga was the direct way to follow, as it had all the things a CPC owner wanted as a logically progression in the hardware field and not the ST or the c64 (both machines were made by the same people!)

Quote:
Of course the Amiga Turricans are the best because they push the hardware just like the C64 versions did. No need to explain that.
the Amiga versions of turrican are so superior in every sense and way to the C64 versions, you can't even compare them.

When i look at the CPC version and i run side by side the Amiga version, i see how both are graphically parents and child, and i understand the clever choice of using the Amiga graphics by probe to make the CPC version.

The C64 assets would have been choosen, to make the CPC port, it would have been a catastrophy, like all 99% C64 to CPC game ports. It was wiser to use the 16 bits version as a start since the CPC was the latest 8 bits machine to be in the european video game market.
dlfrsilver is offline  
Old 06 March 2016, 17:00   #256
lordofchaos
TinkerTailorContentMaker

lordofchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bedfordshire
Age: 39
Posts: 1,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
I use a breadbin C64, and i also have a Sony Trinitron Screen.

With the lumafix and by changing the whole set of capacitors on the motherboard, the C64 get back its original "clean" display, but the colors are still washed out.

Just for fun, i plug it yesterday evening, and i launched Robocop.

The c64 version is full of conception errors :

For instance, the goal is to pass from one side of the level to the other, for this you have to respect a given time shown by the timer.

1st problem : the enemies never stop to respawn.

2nd problem : tied to the 1st one, since you can't get away with them, they shoot you and it's impossible to dodge their shots

3rd problem : tied to the 1st and 2nd, and as a consequence of these, this makes you unable to stay either alive or respect the timer

If you have still your energy, the timer is out, is the timer has enough remaining time, you die out of energy.

4rd problem : the playability is really loosy, robocop is at the same time a flying tin can and an anvil when walking on the ground. The fella is never doing what you exactly want from him.

5th problem : the music is good and is distracting the player from the actual game.

On the CPC version, you can't jump, but Robo is actually doing its job, (a true self mother of a tin can !), you can shoot a lot of enemies and have a luck to pass the levels without dying because you're too long to get ride of enemies or because you're out of energy. The enemies are very detailed, and they exist in a larger variety than on the C64 version.

The icing on the cake ? The C64 release has a whole level (or two) destroyed by corruption.....

And the CPC music is legendary ! Not a coincidence if Ariston paid a truckload of money to use it in their washing-machine advertisement !

The Poor Jon Dunn just did nightmare due to the money he never saw from this contract......

Next case : Batman the movie

The C64 release has a cheesy soundtrack (read : wubbish!), the playability make me think of a guy with a "Broom in the ass", rigidity like character, the enemies have no AI at all, they can't shoot you in diagonals, only horizontally. The scrolling is smooth but dog slow.

The CPC is as good as the 16 bits versions : enemies have an AI, they pursue you as much as they can, they can shoot you in every possible directions, the scrolling is slow moving, but otherwise fast when batman is balancing thru the screen, the sound effects are good, as is the music.

Next case : Total Recall

The C64 version has a nice little music on the start, but once you start to play, you can see it would be better called Total Rektal than total Recall.
The platform system is completely rubbish (and i pass on the colors!), you just never stop to hurt Doug Quaid on them.

The CPC version has a very nice music, better to my ears than the C64 one (well it was not too hard, the C64 music being just ok). Next the game got much more attention and work than the C64 version. You don't spend your time knocking your knees in the platforms, Quaid jumps and punch and shoot nicely all along.

Next case : Golden Axe

The C64 version of this game has one of the very best music available for a video game. Jeroen Tel of course Next, once you start to look at the screen, you wonder if someone has pooped and pissed on your screen (don't touch your TV, it's not her fault ! ).

The hot and cold shower fact : first they bring you a delicious "hors d'oeuvre", and once you have eaten, it's a shitfest on all the table. The game in itself is really awfull to look at and watch.

The CPC version has a correct rendition of the musical theme, not as good as the c64 version, but here is the deal : The graphics were done and the coding made by competent coders from Probe. The graphics in game are very near of the ST and Amiga version, and the sprites are cute and fully colored like the backgrounds. It has to be noted that the game on CPC has even the full outro in the end. A very good conversion.

Next case : Rick Dangerous II

The c64 version smells the spectrum version from the tones of colors used ingame. the intro music is nice but nothing spectacular. The playability is good and it's a quite pleasant game to play.

The CPC versions is a carbon copy of the Atari ST version. The music is nice enough for some YM2149 sound. The playability is very good, the animations too and the game is very pleasant to play all along as well.

Next case : Deliverance

The C64 version has a nice music but not that great on the title screen, and then in game, you get a 50fps scrolling with washed-out colors.
Really disappointing when you've seen the CPC version with the brilliants graphics made by Rafaelle Cecco (if you read us, thanks a lot!!!).

The CPC version of this game was the lead version (as usual with Cecco), the graphics are just beautiful, the game is very playable, full of nice YM musics and sound fx ingame. One of the CPC jewels.

Next case : Turrican

The C64 version is reknowned, that's quite normal since it's a great game on its own. Next, the graphics are really not great to my taste, even with its washed-out colors, the C64 is i think able to do way better than that.
The sound theme is quite good, but not the best i heard on this machine.
The playability is good, but for such different worlds inside the game it would have been better to have lots of colors. (that's why i prefer the amiga version).

The CPC version is a big surprise. Not only it's a CPC dedicated game, but the surface to explore is incredibly huge. The CPC version is based on the Amiga assets of the game, this because the c64 color scheme is rubbish aside the CPC one, the amiga version is a better source. And it shows in game : huge sprites, huge maps, very good playability, the scroll is slow, but it's properly tied to the screen. The whole result is a gem to own and play on CPC, the only bad point being the lack of music (the game is eating all the memory on 64K machine).

etc etc etc......
I think you would make a good Politician

Cherry picking examples is easy to do, but for the majority of these titles the C64 is more playable due to a smoother experience (is this really up for debate?), and the washed out colour look you keep referring to is subjective to ones own personal tastes, for the most part that is.

You talk about Deliverance looking washed out, I've never heard it been described that way before, it's not amazing sure, but the graphics are at the very least, decent. And not mentioning how bad the graphics & playability are on Turrican for the CPC is strange, it's utterly terrible in comparison to the C64, anybody that's spent more than 10 minutes with the game can see that.

In short, most (not all) multi titles played better on the C64, the reason is not a mystery, it's superior hardware.
lordofchaos is offline  
Old 06 March 2016, 17:04   #257
Retro-Nerd
Missile Command Champion

Retro-Nerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Age: 45
Posts: 10,628
Sure! The C64 was designed with a video console in mind, just like the Amiga.

Quote:
the Amiga versions of turrican are so superior in every sense and way to the C64 versions, you can't even compare them.
Of course you can compare them. They share the same game design. Both plays pretty identical while the Amiga versions have the extra bit of smoothness in the controls and animations. The CPC versions have nothing of it, well some parts of the graphics looks a bit alike. Mostly it's blocky as hell due to the lack of hardware/hires sprites.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 06 March 2016 at 17:09.
Retro-Nerd is offline  
Old 06 March 2016, 17:07   #258
hansel75
Walk Off? Boolander!
hansel75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Gladstone Australia
Age: 42
Posts: 599
All i know is that when i was growing up, i was mostly playing smooth and very playable C64 games, and i guess i just got used to the smoothness the Commodore machine gave plus the amazing sound always impressed.
The colours of the C64 were never an issue for me, and they were used to great effect in shading and with gritty/realistic looking games, CPC colours were like looking at a rainbow while on a acid trip!
And on seeing the competition for the first time with my mates CPC, to see it struggle to scroll a screen smoothly and see the sprites jerk about, and to hear the white noise sfx and crap music after hearing Hubbard and Galway on C64, well that was quite amusing to me and i then knew i had the winning machine with the C64!

Games like this for example on Commodore-
IK+, Last Ninja Series, Turrican series, Impossible mission, Paradroid, Uridium, Epyx Games series, Giana sisters, Delta, Sanxion, Salamander, Green beret, Creatures series, Wizball, Parallax, Armalyte, Katakis, Myth, Turbo outrun, Turbocharge, Exploding Fist, Mercenary, Buggy boy and many, many other superior C64 classics.

These were all kick ass games on the C64, and from what i have seen, nothing on the CPC can compare to most of these games on C64.
These C64 games were the full package of great graphics and sound, and were smooth and playable and didn't resort to cheap tactics like running in postage stamp sized screens.
And there was no compromises, no excuses, and no weak elements in these C64 games, they were technically some of the best 8bit computer games ever and played brilliantly!

And as mentioned, there are many other C64 games that are just as good as the ones i have listed here, these are just a sample from the huge library we had.
Sure there were lots of crap C64 games just like every format had, but we definitely had a lot more higher quality games then the competition.
And that's why the C64 ended up selling 4-5x times as many units then the entire CPC range sold, because unlike France where they appear to be to fixated on colour over everything else, the rest of the world wanted a real gaming machine with dedicated hardware for gfx and audio, and one with the largest range of smoother, more playable, quality games!

Last edited by hansel75; 06 March 2016 at 17:20.
hansel75 is offline  
Old 06 March 2016, 18:07   #259
dlfrsilver
CaptainM68K-SPS France
dlfrsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melun nearby Paris/France
Age: 40
Posts: 7,063
Send a message via MSN to dlfrsilver
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansel75 View Post
All i know is that when i was growing up, i was mostly playing smooth and very playable C64 games, and i guess i just got used to the smoothness the Commodore machine gave plus the amazing sound always impressed.
as said, i can do with a lesser good scroll and sound, if the game is overall working well and interesting to play

If i wanted the whole thing, i would have bought an Amiga and not a C64.

Quote:
The colours of the C64 were never an issue for me, and they were used to great effect in shading and with gritty/realistic looking games, CPC colours were like looking at a rainbow while on a acid trip!
The CPC games in mode 0 used assets in 16 colors from the ST and the Amiga, giving a better rendering than any c64 screen mode !

the colors of life are the rainbow ! Those colors are natural, why do you think they were also used on the Amiga and the ST ? For a simple reason reason, the C64 colors are synthetic at best and unatural.

The CPC can also have shading effects, this with no problem since it has 16 colors possible on screen on a 27 colors palette

Quote:
And on seeing the competition for the first time with my mates CPC, to see it struggle to scroll a screen smoothly and see the sprites jerk about, and to hear the white noise sfx and crap music after hearing Hubbard and Galway on C64, well that was quite amusing to me and i then knew i had the winning machine with the C64!
The truth : a lot of games on CPC were basically c64 & speccy emulators, so you bet the games were that slow, losing CPU cycles to convert the original code behaviour and graphics on the fly on CPC ! You talk about a prowess !!!

Like the Amiga, the CPC was neglected by a lot a coders, R-type c64 was done in 6 months ? The CPC version is a speccy emulator done in 1 week !

We have here in France a proverb, which is : "A vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire !" which means in english "Triumph without peril brings no glory".

Easy for the c64 to rule on CPC when this one only had crap, rubbish, done up the leg conversions from Speccy and C64.

Fortunatelty some companies understood that the CPC was finally nearer the 16 bits machines than its 2 competitors (C64 & Speccy), and we started to have excellent ports of the 16 bits machines instead of the usual 8 bits counterparts (which was an unnamed idiocy from the start).

Quote:
Games like this for example on Commodore- IK+, Last Ninja Series, Turrican series, Impossible mission, Paradroid, Uridium, Epyx Games series, Giana sisters, Delta, Sanxion, Salamander, Green beret, Creatures series, Wizball, Parallax, Armalyte, Katakis, Myth, Turbo outrun, Turbocharge, Exploding Fist, Mercenary, Buggy boy and many, many other superior C64 classics.
Some of those games were never converted on CPC (while it could have been doable without any questionning). Some were ported from the C64 and are absolutely rubbish (normal since the CPC is more capable graphically than the C64), absolutely forgettable ports.

Quote:
These were all kick ass games on the C64, and from what i have seen, nothing on the CPC can compare to most of these games on C64.
Of course, the coders did absolutely rubbish "2 weeks we did it" job !

back to the proverb : "Triumph without peril brings no glory".

Quote:
These C64 games were the full package of great graphics and sound, and were smooth and playable and didn't resort to cheap tactics like running in postage stamp sized screens.
Maybe if the coders choose to code correctly and not using the original c64 or Spectrum game code the need for such small screens would not have been necessary.

Imagine yourself if the c64 got such ports, you'd be the first to complain !

Quote:
And there was no compromises, no excuses, and no weak elements in these C64 games, they were technically some of the best 8bit computer games ever and played brilliantly!
Easy to speak like that when the coders spent most of the time on the C64 and speccy version, and then only use 3 months max to make a poor CPC port.

once again : "Triumph without peril brings no glory".

Quote:
And as mentioned, there are many other C64 games that are just as good as the ones i have listed here, these are just a sample from the huge library we had.
Yes, until the day some coders opened their eyes, and saw that making ports from the C64 and the speccy to the CPC was completely bullshit, and that it was more logical to port directly the 16 bits versions of the game since the CPC can have rich graphics like the Amiga and the ST.

Quote:
Sure there were lots of crap C64 games just like every format had, but we definitely had a lot more higher quality games then the competition.
no hard since the coders spent a lot more time to make the C64 and speccy versions.

Quote:
And that's why the C64 ended up selling 4-5x times as many units
You're wrong here.

1) the C64 had no real contender from 1983 to 1985. the CPC would have been available at the same time, things would have been a bit harder for it.

2) the CPC sold so much that Amstrad had problems in term of stock, the machines were selling faster than the factory was able to build them and ship them by boat.

Quote:
....then the entire CPC range sold, because unlike France where they appear to be to fixated on colour over everything else,
No no, having a color scheme is what distinguish the oldish computers 8 bits to the half 80's one. At the same time, it was not hard at all to do better than what the C64 proposed in terms of colors.

You can't go against technological progress. And the CPC was able to do many more things than the C64 for a price really unbeatable.

you really think more than 1 millions of people could buy a computer instead another just because it had bright colors ? No no. The CPC had a lot of other great features for it (its basic, being the best on the market), as well as being so easy to use. IT/computing in a very easy fashion and lots of hidden ressources.

In the Batman forever demo, the coders explained the CPC has been used up to only 6% of its real abilities compared to the other 8 bits.

Like above : "Triumph without peril brings no glory".

Quote:
the rest of the world wanted a real gaming machine with dedicated hardware for gfx and audio, and one with the largest range of smoother, more playable, quality games!
The rest of the world just bought what was the best compromise in family computers in 1983.

The quality of the games is tied to what the coders decide to do.

When coders decide to shit and fail software on a machine, it's easy afterward to come and say, the CPC is a crap computer, when the problem is between the chair and the keyboard !

Last time : "Triumph without peril brings no glory".
dlfrsilver is offline  
Old 06 March 2016, 18:09   #260
dlfrsilver
CaptainM68K-SPS France
dlfrsilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melun nearby Paris/France
Age: 40
Posts: 7,063
Send a message via MSN to dlfrsilver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Sure! The C64 was designed with a video console in mind, just like the Amiga.



Of course you can compare them. They share the same game design. Both plays pretty identical while the Amiga versions have the extra bit of smoothness in the controls and animations. The CPC versions have nothing of it, well some parts of the graphics looks a bit alike. Mostly it's blocky as hell due to the lack of hardware/hires sprites.
Sorry Retro, but you're wrong here. I have extracted the tiles of the CPC version of Turrican.

They are exactly the ones used in the Amiga version side by side.

So close, but no cigar this time

PS : hardware sprites have nothing to do with this !
dlfrsilver is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
few Amstrad CPC games s2325 request.Old Rare Games 8 07 April 2012 08:30
Trashman goes to moonlight (Amstrad CPC) ArcadeHeart Retrogaming General Discussion 10 08 January 2012 21:22
For Sale Amstrad cpc Hxc lolafg MarketPlace 1 19 October 2010 17:58
WTB: Amstrad CPC 464 PowerPie5000 MarketPlace 8 18 December 2009 10:51
Championship Golf (Amstrad CPC) s2325 request.Old Rare Games 7 01 July 2009 15:56

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.47694 seconds with 12 queries