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Old 22 February 2013, 15:51   #21
clownstyle
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I think new games for old systems is a great thing! Everyone is so concentrated on PS4 and the new xbox with nothing more than... "are the graphics a lot better? I'm buying one!"

I think sometimes we forget it's the game play that counts (obviously no1 on this board) :P

The best game I have played in a while was actually re-playing chaos engine from years ago! I had much more fun playing that with a friend than any new gen console game.

So yea, It's a great idea. Possibly the goal of 35,000 is a tad unrealistic though.
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Old 22 February 2013, 15:55   #22
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Surely will be. I can understand if people would complain that there's no version for PC or Mac or something, but I can fully understand that they don't go for a 68k version...
A decent looking, fully polished, 68k game would certainly sell many more games than this OS 4/AROS aimed game. Even as a by-product.
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Old 22 February 2013, 16:02   #23
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A decent looking, fully polished, 68k game would certainly sell many more games than this OS 4/AROS aimed game. Even as a by-product.
Would it? Any new game is demanding compared to the hardware of the past. And noone is interested to invest lots of resouces to optimize it for slow hardware. So if the requirement would be f.e. 68060+RTG how many sales would be left? This game looks not so demanding so it could perhaps run on a lower configuration but that is the way most people think.
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Old 22 February 2013, 16:05   #24
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but I can fully understand that they don't go for a 68k version...
I can't! Checked the trailer and there's nothing that a standard 68k Amiga couldn't handle. The only reason they mention an Amiga version is probably to gain more interest and nothing else.
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Old 22 February 2013, 16:06   #25
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Would it? Any new game is demanding compared to the hardware of the past. And noone is interested to invest lots of resouces to optimize it for slow hardware. So if the requirement would be f.e. 68060+RTG how many sales would be left? This game looks not so demanding so it could perhaps run on a lower configuration but that is the way most people think.
It would. If somebody wants to do a proper classic Amiga game. Look at the C64 scene. Sure, more simple architecture, but they released some nice games over the last 3 years and more will follow. You can't made money out of this, but it's possible to do nice Amiga games with the right effort. No homebrewish looking games for fast, mostly PC like, Amiga systems.
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Old 22 February 2013, 16:20   #26
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It would. If somebody wants to do a proper classic Amiga game. Look at the C64 scene. Sure, more simple architecture, but they released some nice games over the last 3 years and more will follow. You can't made money out of this, but it's possible to do nice Amiga games with the right effort. No homebrewish looking games for fast, mostly PC like, Amiga systems.
I have shortly looked on the german site of the company behind. Their main-product is a cross-platform environment already supporting lots of platforms. So by this kickstarter they can add a couple of new platforms and make some money with it. So from their point of view would it make sense to support a (again from their view) dead and stoneold platform? Expecially considering possible future projects who are demanding. I personal do a lot of things with Aros on 68k and it is very fun and at least on emulation you have lots of ressources but I can understand that companies do not use it as target platforms.

You must always look at it, how are the chances that there is a growing platform and the chance to earn money with it. There are some C64 games but that are hobby projects by enthusiasts and not commercial development.
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Old 22 February 2013, 16:22   #27
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I can't! Checked the trailer and there's nothing that a standard 68k Amiga couldn't handle. The only reason they mention an Amiga version is probably to gain more interest and nothing else.
Sorry, I dont understand this "logic". Why would they use a platform to gain interest if theyre not supporting said platform? :-)

More likely there's an "NG" enthusiast or two amongst them who decided they'd like to have a version for "amiga" systems that are easy to port to.

Anyway, I'll stop responding in this thread now. By now Im probably sounding like I have some sort of vested interest, which isnt the case.
I just think its cool to have a new boxed "amiga" title, regardless of which flavors theyve omitted, and cant bring myself to begrudge anyone who's decided to have a crack.
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Old 22 February 2013, 16:27   #28
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Sorry, I dont understand this "logic". Why would they use a platform to gain interest if theyre not supporting said platform? :-)
It is very simple: the Amiga had (and to some extent still has) a large fan base because it was a very popular machine in the 80s/90s. But those were all 68k machines. And for me, "support" is not just changing the target of your compiler to have the game running on some PPC/non-68k Amiga. But that's of course my very own point of view and you are free to disagree.
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Old 22 February 2013, 16:29   #29
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I have shortly looked on the german site of the company behind. Their main-product is a cross-platform environment already supporting lots of platforms. So by this kickstarter they can add a couple of new platforms and make some money with it. So from their point of view would it make sense to support a (again from their view) dead and stoneold platform? Expecially considering possible future projects who are demanding. I personal do a lot of things with Aros on 68k and it is very fun and at least on emulation you have lots of ressources but I can understand that companies do not use it as target platforms.

You must always look at it, how are the chances that there is a growing platform and the chance to earn money with it. There are some C64 games but that are hobby projects by enthusiasts and not commercial development.
That's my point. You probably don't get decent Amiga games from companies these days. This would need passion for old systems. Most of the Dremcast/Neo Geo titles from the commerical NG:DEV Team looks amateurish, compared with e.g. the hobby project Sturmwind from Duranik. That's a fully polished oldschool 2D shooter. Better than the most commerical Japan shmups for the DC.
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Old 22 February 2013, 16:29   #30
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I can't!
Surely they use some kind of cross platform development tool that would run dead slow on a 68k Amiga. That's why I said 'by-product'. It's not the point that a 68k version isn't possible, it's just not viable for them. Anyway, I'm not interested in it like I said and I just wanted to point out that it's more than likely the 'Amiga' version wasn't the main reason for the kickstarter to begin with...
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Old 22 February 2013, 16:41   #31
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Surely they use some kind of cross platform development tool that would run dead slow on a 68k Amiga. That's why I said 'by-product'. It's not the point that a 68k version isn't possible, it's just not viable for them. Anyway, I'm not interested in it like I said and I just wanted to point out that it's more than likely the 'Amiga' version wasn't the main reason for the kickstarter to begin with...
Yes certainly it was not. There seem to be someone there who knows Amiga and is aware of the community. So they could have started it just with Dreamcast. Whatever was the reason it would be a nice to have.

In any cases cross-platform tools (opensource or how in this case commercial) are the only realistic chance to get commercial games again.
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Old 22 February 2013, 17:00   #32
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If you mean commerical = make money. Maybe true. But you could surely get nice boxed retail Amiga games out of hobby projects. Just like with C64, Atari VCS, Atari XL, C16, ZX Spectrum etc. projects. If you really want it.
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Old 22 February 2013, 17:14   #33
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If you mean commerical = make money. Maybe true. But you could surely get nice boxed retail Amiga games out of hobby projects. Just like with C64, Atari VCS, Atari XL, C16, ZX Spectrum etc. projects. If you really want it.
Yes I mean making money. They do it for money. The same is the case for most developers outside (at least when they have to earn money by it for their living.
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Old 22 February 2013, 17:17   #34
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I feel like this has always been the failing of new Amiga projects; targeting the wrong demographics of a very small niche group.

Me personally I would target the A500 with a possible A1200 enhanced version because that is pretty much what the main demographics were when the Amiga finished commercially.

Most recent stuff that I've seen released for the Amiga seems to be an after thought which results in 060/PPC setup for a quick port.

It is easy to forget how much more OCS/ECS Amiga's are out there compared to AGA. Especially on a forum like EAB.
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Old 22 February 2013, 17:28   #35
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I feel like this has always been the failing of new Amiga projects; targeting the wrong demographics of a very small niche group.

Me personally I would target the A500 with a possible A1200 enhanced version because that is pretty much what the main demographics were when the Amiga finished commercially.

Most recent stuff that I've seen released for the Amiga seems to be an after thought which results in 060/PPC setup for a quick port.

It is easy to forget how much more OCS/ECS Amiga's are out there compared to AGA. Especially on a forum like EAB.
Most games I have seen were ports of linux games and those normally run on more advanced hardware. Propably there are not too many developers left that are able and interested to create special amiga-versions. And regarding A500, I have the Amiga-Versions of WingCommander and Ambermoon (in the past running on A1200/A4000 and today on emulation) and was always sad that they were not using AGA with its 256 colours.
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Old 22 February 2013, 17:47   #36
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it's possible to do nice Amiga games with the right effort.
Well, unfortunately most of what comes out lately is just garbage. Of course, not commercial, but still, it feels like almost nobody is doing professional-grade development of Amiga games, not enough to cross the border onto making something worth purchasing. People's acceptance of anything "just because it's for Amiga", a sentiment expressed above in this thread (someone saying they are happy with just seeing the Amiga logo on a game), is not going to lead to proper grade Amiga games to be developed either.

The platform of distribution is not a problem anymore, you just need people actually making the games that are worth publishing and paying money for.

I would obviously like to pay for a proper copy of Mr. Beanbag, for example. One of the few games that are professional in the Amiga development world of late.

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There are some C64 games but that are hobby projects by enthusiasts and not commercial development.
They aren't. I linked to the site that sells them before, RGCD: http://www.rgcd.co.uk/
Although the games were, most of them, originally conceived without commercial gain in mind, the quality they have is of good enough grade to be sold in a decent box and/or cartridge. That's not something I can say of the kickstarter game, which looks way too amateurish. Asking 60 pounds for such a crummy looking game is just cheeky.

Look at RGCD prices, with games costing 20 pounds, and we're talking about games with boxes, instructions and even a physical cartridge made for them.
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Old 22 February 2013, 18:00   #37
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The original coder of Armalyte (C64) are working on Armalyte 2 at the moment, probably also released as a boxed retail version (Tape, Disk and Cartridge). Indeed, there is nothing comparable in the Amiga scene. I'm no programmer but what's the problem to program a fully polished AA Amiga title? Not enough passion for the system? Is it to complex to get nice results in a reasonable amount of time?

Quote:
people's acceptance of anything "just because it's for Amiga", a sentiment expressed above in this thread (someone saying they are happy with just seeing the Amiga logo on a game), is not going to lead to proper grade Amiga games to be developed either.
That's true. You can see this in the Atari Jaguar scene to. They buy everything for a lot of money. Some newer Jaguar games didn't have a low PD niveau.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 22 February 2013 at 18:31.
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Old 22 February 2013, 18:15   #38
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The only way to make money from an amiga game in 2013 would be to jump on the retroexploitation wagon. There are many pseudoretro indie games being released for modern systems nowadays (you have to win the game, retro city rampage, swords & sworcery etc.) and a minimalist approach running on an unexpanded or a 512k expanded A500 would hit the spot so I second whitesnake.

Of course they're also supposed to have ios, android, windows ports for advertising that runs both ways.
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Old 22 February 2013, 18:43   #39
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@Akira

Im assuming you mean me when you say, "someone saying they are happy with just seeing the Amiga logo on a game". That, regardless of how much you may like it to fit into your argument is not what I said. It doesn't even share the same flavor of what I was saying.

@thread

The thing is though, we have shedloads of good 68k games for low spec machines. Anything people release is going to be compared to what was developed by yesteryears fully fledged commercial companies, consisting of multiple people, each with a forte, and a development budget. Joe "Homebrew In His Spare Time" Public cant compete here. And even if he/she could just how much interest will what he develops be to people. A labor of love still requires an audience to keep up motivation to polish something, and one so opinionated as the Amiga's (as witnessed here) doesnt exactly encourage people.

Now this leaves higher spec 68k Amigas as a more interesting target, as it has the potential to do more interesting things than what has been done to death already. This however takes more time and effort again, and given the opinionated/know-better nature of so many amiga "fans" (the audience) who actually do nothing but claim to know better while discouraging people, it's easy to instead decide to target systems where people are more supportive of a persons efforts (considering the work involved isnt dissimilar to more modern systems when targetting a mid to high spec 68k system).

This game for example isnt even finished and people are already quick to dismiss it, citing it as "homebrew looking", and other such nonsense.

There are exceptions though and some 68k fans do seem to appreciate peoples efforts without the need to know better, but honestly, given the reception people typically get, why would anyone try developing a good quality game these days for classic amiga? I've certainly lost interest in trying now.


In regards to c64 development, its a different kettle of fish with its much more limited graphics, and simplistic gamestyles.

Last edited by fishyfish; 22 February 2013 at 18:51.
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Old 22 February 2013, 19:38   #40
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The solution for those who want games, make them. It's not like there's a shortage of languages.

I still think at the least a regular game making contest would be a good idea but I seem to be in the minority there. oh well.
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