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Old 08 January 2013, 01:13   #61
lordofchaos
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Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
Bobs would be fine if your objects were round or didn't rotate. It's the rectangular/triangular pieces in Angry Birds that would pose a problem, because they can spin round.
Dam! Hmmm...Well what about if each move was pre-calculated, the player takes a shot then you see a "Please wait" screen, you might have to wait 30 minutes between each shot but still
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Old 08 January 2013, 01:34   #62
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I think it could be done on the Amiga, but you'd probably need quite a bit of ram to do it.

Following Archer Macleans example for Jimmy Whites Whirlwind Snooker, when you go to take a shot in that game, the whole time the snooker cue is moving after you let it go, is when its doing all its calculations.

Depending on just how big the screen is, and how many bitplanes you're aiming for (the objects in Angry Birds aren't that colourful), you could opt to do a similar system, where after you release your bird, theres a pause as it precalculates everything, and draws all the relevant screens to maintain a decent speed and no ingame slowdown.

Obviously when the Bird leaves the catapult is simple blitting until it interacts with something, and then it precalculates everything.

The only time this wouldn't work is if you use an exploding Bird, because obviously the precalc routines would have no clue when you'd activate it.

Or, simply pause whilst it does its calculations.

Lets not be coy here, whilst Angry Birds is a simplistic concept, its running on smart phones that are ten times more powerful than an Amiga A500, i've seen Angry Birds drop frames on lesser smart phones.

With some programming ingenuity, Angry Birds is definately possible, and quite a close conversion would be possible, but, its personally not the game i'd aim for, because from a novice gamers perspective, they think Angry Birds is simple, they would have no clue in the amount of work needed to actually realise something like this on the Amiga.
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Old 08 January 2013, 02:42   #63
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Just give it a thought without the rotation. If I had some extra time right now, I'd do a proof of concept. think it would work out great.

Here's another reference. I think a similar game was made in Flash and actually inspired Angry Birds. This is a little simpler although it oes have object rotation:
[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 08 January 2013, 02:57   #64
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How about something with (slightly modified) engine and graphics from Magic Pockets? As you know you can choose there power and direction of weapon. Between blocks should be trapped these small slugs from first world. As you can not destroy them with falling blocks there should option to make spinning jump if out of ammo or maybe even using a bike.
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Old 08 January 2013, 12:45   #65
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Since the "Should it be done" card is invalid, what about asking "Why talk when people could try?". It's a bit fruitless to discuss this (which happened with other games in the past too) without anyone even trying IMHO. But by all means of being bored, carry on please
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Old 08 January 2013, 13:28   #66
Mrs Beanbag
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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
With some programming ingenuity, Angry Birds is definately possible, and quite a close conversion would be possible, but, its personally not the game i'd aim for, because from a novice gamers perspective, they think Angry Birds is simple, they would have no clue in the amount of work needed to actually realise something like this on the Amiga.
Indeed. Game physics is a well trodden path these days, there are APIs for this sort of thing that do all the work for you. On the Amiga we'd have to start from scratch.

People who play games but don't program don't realise what has to go on behind the scenes to make things happen. It's easy to take things for granted, and think that sprites are actually solid objects, that all you have to do is "add gravity" and the rest takes care of itself. Even on a simple platform game, if all you did was "add gravity", your character would fall through the floor!
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Old 08 January 2013, 13:35   #67
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The pre-calculating route is an interesting one... you wouldn't have to render all the frames beforehand, I think it would be enough to calculate the motion some frames ahead and only store the data needed to reproduce the collisions, since everything between the collisions is plain sailing (so to speak) and render the graphics in real time. If someone detonated a bomb you could purge the pre-calculation buffer and start again, which might introduce some judder depending on the circumstances. It would be a bit like CPU branch prediction.

I didn't realise Archer MacLean was pre-calculating the motion of the balls.
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Old 08 January 2013, 14:26   #68
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I'm with NovaCoder on this, you're severely underestimating how complex this stuff is. I hate to be a big pessy, but I don't think you will ever see these kinds of games on an Amiga, it just doesn't have the CPU power for it.

I don't think it's valid to liken these physics to that of games like Worms or Pinball Dreams. Worms f.ex isn't something you just throw together, but frankly I think the physics of it is closer to plain animation than real time rigid body physics.

Also I don't think fixed point math will suffice. The problem is you have no dynamic range with fixed point math, and so you can have either big numbers or small numbers, but not both. You can always add more digits of course but it quickly becomes prohibitive in terms of performance. I think this is something you MUST use floating point math for.

For anyone curious of just how complex it is to simulate what happens when a couple of squares and circles bump into eachother, you can download the physics engine used in Angry Birds and have a look. It's called Box2D and is free and open source, you don't have to start from scratch or even know how it works, so the optimistic and diligent of you can compile it for Amiga and start porting Angry Birds right away
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Old 08 January 2013, 15:28   #69
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There's 2 quite decent versions - at least in terms of the 'feel' of the originals - that can be downloaded and played thru Excel:
Angry Birds Excel & Angry Birds Rio Excel - from www.excelgames.info
Both use mouse-based input (instead of touchscreen) and I would guess - I'm most definitely NOT a coder/programmer! - that you could pretty easily look at the code as they're Excel macros...?
Maybe this would give some of our resident coders more ideas?
Just a thought.
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Old 08 January 2013, 17:10   #70
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How about a 2D version of [ Show youtube player ]?
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Old 08 January 2013, 17:11   #71
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There's 2 quite decent versions - at least in terms of the 'feel' of the originals - that can be downloaded and played thru Excel:
Angry Birds Excel & Angry Birds Rio Excel - from www.excelgames.info
Hahaha.. that's just excellent.. no more need for boss-buttons, you just switch to the next sheet
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Old 08 January 2013, 17:12   #72
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How about a 2D version of [ Show youtube player ]?
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Old 08 January 2013, 17:15   #73
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I'm asking myself, if there should be an Amiga version of that game. Angry Birds and Call of Duty represent all I hate about modern gaming. Use your f*cking smartphone, if you really want to play that kind of games.
The reason i dislike angry birds is because it is what worms is - sans the fun part (multiplayer, bombs etc)
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Old 08 January 2013, 20:49   #74
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Also I don't think fixed point math will suffice. The problem is you have no dynamic range with fixed point math, and so you can have either big numbers or small numbers, but not both. You can always add more digits of course but it quickly becomes prohibitive in terms of performance. I think this is something you MUST use floating point math for.
Your objects need to have:
* position (x,y)
* velocity (x,y)
* rate of spin

given the playing area is only a few screens wide, why do you think any of these variables would require a large dynamic range? 32 bit integers seem more than sufficient in my estimation.
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Old 09 January 2013, 20:55   #75
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I'm asking myself, if there should be an Amiga version of that game. Angry Birds and Call of Duty represent all I hate about modern gaming. Use your f*cking smartphone, if you really want to play that kind of games.
Amen to that.
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Old 09 January 2013, 21:32   #76
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Your objects need to have:
* position (x,y)
* velocity (x,y)
* rate of spin

given the playing area is only a few screens wide, why do you think any of these variables would require a large dynamic range? 32 bit integers seem more than sufficient in my estimation.
I guess that would be enough for doing some linear animation, but I think there are more variables that must be considered for active simulation.

What I was getting at was not how to represent some single state during animation or how much relative accuracy you need, but the amount and complexity of all the math. At some point during the calculation phases you will probably have to consider very big and very small numbers, and that's where fixed point math becomes problematic.
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Old 09 January 2013, 22:35   #77
Mrs Beanbag
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What I was getting at was not how to represent some single state during animation or how much relative accuracy you need, but the amount and complexity of all the math. At some point during the calculation phases you will probably have to consider very big and very small numbers, and that's where fixed point math becomes problematic.
I don't think so. If you were doing research for a physics paper, maybe. For a game, not so much. The calculations aren't all that complex, there are just a lot of them.

Well, I'll find out sooner or later, I intend to have better physics models in Beanbag II.
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Old 09 January 2013, 22:41   #78
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The calculations aren't all that complex, there are just a lot of them.
Fixed point math can easily become a PITA without complex calculations!
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Old 02 April 2013, 02:08   #79
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Check out the effect 2:50 into this: [ Show youtube player ]
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Old 02 April 2013, 03:01   #80
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Question is if it's been precalculated? If not, then I'd say that a simple version of Angry birds should definately be doable on a plain classic Amiga.
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