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Old 11 December 2012, 21:24   #1
CFOU!
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Question Help needed: why i get smooth scrollings only in 3d vision mode?

Hi Guy,

I am curious way, but i not understand the reason

Perhaps somebody can help me to understand.

Indeed, I can display on my PC configuration very smooth scrollings on a LCD monitor (like on a CRT monitor) but only in 3d vision mode with 3D glasses

I have tested with:
- WinuUAE using 'sync 50hz=>60hz option' or NTSC games (tested TURRICAN2, BC kid etc???)
- some pc games using 2d scrollings (Braid, Rayman origins , shank 1 & 2, etc.)

It's impressive to see very smooth scrolling on LCD monitor on PC...
(config: gtx 580X2 SLI on Asus VG278HE to 144hz (3d vision 120 hz =>60hz per eye)

But curiously if i disable 3d vision mode, scrollings are not smooth because i can see 2 frames in same time (new frames and previous frame but with less light) ;
Image looks shaky at the border of item... So it's unplayable because i have quickly headache so it's impossible to display 2d scrollings without 3d Glasses

Have you an idea of the reason of this curious phenomena ?

If i don"t found the reason, I'm going crazy

PLease help me
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Old 11 December 2012, 21:28   #2
Toni Wilen
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Do you get same problem if you select 100Hz or 120Hz (instead of 50/60) in WinUAE settings?
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Old 11 December 2012, 21:49   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Do you get same problem if you select 100Hz or 120Hz (instead of 50/60) in WinUAE settings?
100hz is not smooth (because i use 60hz game and not PAl 50hZ)

But in 120hz same problem..... scrolling is regular but i can see previous frame... so image looks blurred or shaky



rem: using Mame i can have smooth scrolling only using d3d +bilinear filter but image are already blurred by bilinear.... so it's not pretty... without bilinear=>same problem
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Old 11 December 2012, 22:18   #4
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one idea.... perhaps 3d vision 'emulate' CRT monitor...

indeed on CRT monitor, there are a delay between 2 frames => causing a 'black' screen between each frame (delay to move spot at left-top corner of the screen)

using 3d glasses each eye canb see 60 frames/s but beetween 2 frame eye is hidden causing a fake 'black' screen.
(each eye looks alternativly 60 frames and 60 black screen in 1 second)

perhaps on LCD monitor there are not enought delay between 2 frames and so eyes can see previous frame mixed with new frame.....

your opinion about that?
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Old 12 December 2012, 08:50   #5
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Well i personally don't have any idea about the mecanics behind this effect :|

i'm quite as surprised as you are.....
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Old 13 December 2012, 02:29   #6
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Question

I had try this:

1) i have installed last Nvidia beta drivers but there are no change...

2) i have try to done screenshots during bad scrollings but on all screenshots pixels are goods and not blurred.

3) so i join for you 2 pictures:
=> first picture is modified Winuae snapshot to show to you what i can see during scrolling if 3D vision mode is disabled (created using image editor)
=> last one is a zoom comparison to show to you how looks image during scrolling with (at the top) and wittout (at bottom) 3d vision mode + 3d glasses.
(read explanation on second picture please...)

Have you an idea to solve my problem?

Regards.

Bertrand.
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Old 13 December 2012, 04:23   #7
Lord Riton
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The pixels on your last screen shots are blurred in both ways (horizontaly and verticaly). So if this is only a Horizontal scrolling game, it means it isns't an "accident", but done by purpose.

Sorry can't help more
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Old 13 December 2012, 11:23   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Riton View Post
The pixels on your last screen shots are blurred in both ways (horizontaly and verticaly). So if this is only a Horizontal scrolling game, it means it isns't an "accident", but done by purpose.

Sorry can't help more

if game use horizotal scrolling which goes to right or left, it's burred in the both direction but a bit more at right....

I will see if there are also vertically blur...
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Old 17 December 2012, 13:36   #9
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nobody have idea about it?


Last edited by CFOU!; 19 December 2012 at 10:42.
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Old 01 March 2013, 17:54   #10
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If you double the refresh speed to 120hz from a 60hz source, what winuae does is simply doubling the frame (or just wait till vertical retrace has finished) so in fact all frames got doubled. That makes the image judder, specially scrolls and sprites, fast moving objects.

Now it is possible to get cristal clear images without glasses on lightboost 120hz enabled monitors (as the one you have CFOU) due to this hack: http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/

However, for the effect to be perfect you have to update the screen at 120hz, that is, your source must be 120hz. If you have 60hz source, and if you try to double the frame, you get the juddering/doubling effect (similar to blur but the same).

The solution: simple. Just add a black frame before each frame. You will have perfect clear, 2D animations like CRT. However, program must be modified to support this. There is no noticeable flicker at 120Hz as is fast enough to fool eyes, although maybe someone can notice it. The only thing noticeable is a decrease in brightness due to black frame being interleaved.

I have just modified MAME with that idea with excellent results. I have awesome, cristal clear with no blur, ghosting... in all arcades, like CRT.

I am asking for the same feature on the appropiate forum thread. Please support my petition

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=871907#post871907

Cya!

Last edited by cpharlok; 01 March 2013 at 18:36.
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Old 11 March 2013, 14:18   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpharlok View Post
If you double the refresh speed to 120hz from a 60hz source, what winuae does is simply doubling the frame (or just wait till vertical retrace has finished) so in fact all frames got doubled. That makes the image judder, specially scrolls and sprites, fast moving objects.

Now it is possible to get cristal clear images without glasses on lightboost 120hz enabled monitors (as the one you have CFOU) due to this hack: http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/

However, for the effect to be perfect you have to update the screen at 120hz, that is, your source must be 120hz. If you have 60hz source, and if you try to double the frame, you get the juddering/doubling effect (similar to blur but the same).

The solution: simple. Just add a black frame before each frame. You will have perfect clear, 2D animations like CRT. However, program must be modified to support this. There is no noticeable flicker at 120Hz as is fast enough to fool eyes, although maybe someone can notice it. The only thing noticeable is a decrease in brightness due to black frame being interleaved.

I have just modified MAME with that idea with excellent results. I have awesome, cristal clear with no blur, ghosting... in all arcades, like CRT.

I am asking for the same feature on the appropiate forum thread. Please support my petition

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=871907#post871907

Cya!
great thanx i will test it
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