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Old 10 December 2012, 22:39   #1
clitosa
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Floppy disk Installing WB3.1 without losing files on the HD?

Hi all,

We are hoping to install W.B3.1 on our internal 4GB CF HD, which is currently running WB2.1

Before we try to do so. There are files on our HD, that we do not wish to lose. These files are located in our DH1 (work) folder and DH2 (games) folder. We have no concern for those files found within DH0 (workbench)

People have pointed out that making a backup of the HD would be best before attempting to do so. Because changes to the HD partition size (DH0/1/2 etc) will effect files located in those areas.

Unfortunately we are unable to make a back of the HD.

Is it still therefore possible that if we do not change the HD partition size, then we could install WB3.1 over our 2.1 without losing those files found in DH1 and 2

Maybe it's too much of a tall order, but thought i'd ask.

Thanks
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Old 10 December 2012, 22:50   #2
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If you just format DH0 you don't loose anything on the rest of partitions.
For other thread your problem is that perhaps your first partition is too small, so then you will have to make that backup of DH1 and DH2, as you will loose all the info changing the size of the partitions.

Are you using a Cf as HD? If so, the easiest way is to make all in WinUAE with a Cf adapter to your PC.

But I don't know really if you have room. WB3.1 doesn't need much mb's. If you have, just boot from the install disk, format DH0 (quick format always) and install it.

Last edited by Retrofan; 10 December 2012 at 22:56.
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Old 10 December 2012, 23:56   #3
clitosa
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Thumbs down Unable to use UAE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrofan View Post
If you just format DH0 you don't loose anything on the rest of partitions.
For other thread your problem is that perhaps your first partition is too small, so then you will have to make that backup of DH1 and DH2, as you will loose all the info changing the size of the partitions.

Are you using a Cf as HD? If so, the easiest way is to make all in WinUAE with a Cf adapter to your PC.

But I don't know really if you have room. WB3.1 doesn't need much mb's. If you have, just boot from the install disk, format DH0 (quick format always) and install it.
Thanks - Unfortunately we are not able to do anything with UAE as we are without the copyright ROM files and have no knowledge of how to set up the Emulator correctly.

Is there an actual process to "safely" installing WB3.1 as mentioned above using our six WB floppy disks?

If so, we would need it explaining in full. As our capabilities on WB are nearly as bad as our inability to UAE.

Attached is some more information on our 4BG CF. Maybe this will help? They are (left to right) DH0, DH1 & DH2.

Thanks
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Old 11 December 2012, 07:49   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clitosa View Post
Hi all,
People have pointed out that making a backup of the HD would be best before attempting to do so. Because changes to the HD partition size (DH0/1/2 etc) will effect files located in those areas.
If you change partition sizes, only those partitions are destroyed which are resized or moved. So for example, if you make DH0 bigger with an effect that DH1 becomes smaller, only DH0 and DH1 data is lost. DH2 remains usable. If you have enough space on DH2 to backup all data from DH0 and DH1 to DH2, then you can easily to the resize and restore the data from DH2 after it (assuming you have some other boot media, like Workbench disk... or you've made that DH2 bootable).

But in any case, if you make an error with the partitions and seems that you've lost everything, don't panic. Just don't write anything on the disk with new partitions and there will be possibility to restore "partition tables" back to original and all data will be back. It needs some expertise, but can be done.

Quote:
Unfortunately we are unable to make a back of the HD.
It is easy to backup one partition to some other partition, if there's enough space on it. DH0 is usually set so small, that it'll probably fit on some other partition.

For example backing up DH0 to DH2 from the shell:

makedir DH2:backup_dh0
copy DH0:#? DH2:backup_dh0/ ALL CLONE QUIET

ALL option copies all files inside all directories, CLONE option makes exact copies with dates, protection bits etc preserved, and QUIET option makes no output to shell while copying (you have to wait until cursor goes to new prompt on shell). If you want to see every file it's copying, then don't give QUIET option.

If you want to restore the full backup back to new and formatted partition:
copy DH2:backup_dh0/#? DH0: ALL CLONE QUIET

Or you just can copy or examine certain single files from the backup if needed to run some program etc.

Edit: and in any case you should backup all or at least certain things from the old system. Installed programs on other partitions may have set some assigns or installed some system files, which you need to copy back to the new system. You should make backup of DH0:S/user-startup file and DH0:Libs/ and DH0:Fonts/ directories. Maybe some others too depending installed software. But better make full backup.

Last edited by jPV; 11 December 2012 at 07:57.
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Old 11 December 2012, 15:24   #5
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I would recommend connect a second device (HD or CF). That make things easier. The internal A1200 IDE port can manage two devices at one cable. Then you can easy make backups for now and in future. They exists 4-port adapter and scsi but that shouldn`t care you for now.

If you have the possibility to meet a skilled amiga user who can help you and explain each step I would recommend doing it. At least for the beginning you will save a lot of time and nerves.
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Old 11 December 2012, 15:31   #6
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Question Backing up the DHn on to an external pcmcia CF before installing WB3.1

Thanks jPV - Thanks for sheding light on those HD partitions.

Sounds like learning to backup those files is important anyway regardless whether we intend to overwrite WB from 2.1 to 3.1 or not. And that making any HD changes without backing up files is not a good idea.

We do have an external 4GB SanDisk CF that we use in our 1200's pcmcia slot to transfer files from our pc to amiga. This CF is currentlt formatted to FAT32.

Could we therefore use the following commands inside Shell/CLI to back up the DH2 onto our external CF?

makedir CF0:backup_dh2
copy DH2:#? CF0:backup_dh2/ ALL CLONE QUIET


Then once WB3.1 has been installed with 3 new partitions (ie DH0,1 & 2) can we use the following commands to restore the back up from CF0 into the DH2 folder?

CF0:backup_dh2/#? DH2: ALL CLONE QUIET

"If" this is the correct method of backing up the contents of DH2 to our CF, we can then repeat the process for both DH0 & 1.

Thank you

Last edited by clitosa; 11 December 2012 at 15:41.
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Old 11 December 2012, 15:40   #7
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Exclamation Internal IDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by daxb View Post
I would recommend connect a second device (HD or CF). That make things easier. The internal A1200 IDE port can manage two devices at one cable. Then you can easy make backups for now and in future. They exists 4-port adapter and scsi but that shouldn`t care you for now.

If you have the possibility to meet a skilled amiga user who can help you and explain each step I would recommend doing it. At least for the beginning you will save a lot of time and nerves.
Thanks D - yeah that sounds sensible. We do have an external 4GB CF in the pcmcia slot. Maybe that would help?

We can only connect 1 device to our internal IDE cable (at least that we know of!) and it's currently attached to our internal CF HD by an IDE2CF adapter.

Yep, would love to meet a skilled miggy user, but seems they're a rare breed these days. (or at least round the parts that we live anyway)

Thanks for the input
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Old 11 December 2012, 15:50   #8
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The discussion here seems quite advanced compared to what you were asking originally.

If you do not need to change the partition sizes, you can simply install WB 3.1 on top of 2.0. The installation program will allow you to either upgrade or reinstall WB. It will then move old, replaced files into an 'Old' folder on DH0. You can delete these files afterwards.
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Old 11 December 2012, 16:44   #9
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Upgrading Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by demolition View Post
The discussion here seems quite advanced compared to what you were asking originally.

If you do not need to change the partition sizes, you can simply install WB 3.1 on top of 2.0. The installation program will allow you to either upgrade or reinstall WB. It will then move old, replaced files into an 'Old' folder on DH0. You can delete these files afterwards.
Thanks Demolition - so what you're saying is, (if we do not care about changing partition size, which is correct ) we can just place the install WB3.1 floppy into DF0 and install 3.1 over 2?

What's more - Is it correct to say we will not lose those orinigal HD files by upgrading? As these files will be moved into an "old" folder within DH0?

Wish we could! - But alas, we experience more problems

When attempting this (what should be straight forward) installation from DF0 we get more error messages. Please see attached picture.
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Old 11 December 2012, 16:55   #10
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The error is because you are trying to install it to the Workbench3.1 partition which is your floppy disk!

You need to select 'Workbench' as the partition to install to.

I'm guessing this is because you chose 'novice' install which automates everything, you are better of chosing 'intermediate' as it will ask you where you want to install and give you step by step directions, I never trust installers 'novice' option, in fact it should almost be the other way round

Good luck,

Steve.
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Old 11 December 2012, 17:04   #11
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I recently upgraded my A600 from WB2.1 to WB3.1. I booted from the install floppy and chose 'intermediate' like fitzsteve recommends and it suggested to install to Workbench: which was correct. Did you boot from the install disk or from your old WB install?
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Old 11 December 2012, 17:37   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clitosa View Post
We do have an external 4GB SanDisk CF that we use in our 1200's pcmcia slot to transfer files from our pc to amiga. This CF is currentlt formatted to FAT32.

Could we therefore use the following commands inside Shell/CLI to back up the DH2 onto our external CF?

makedir CF0:backup_dh2
copy DH2:#? CF0:backup_dh2/ ALL CLONE QUIET


Then once WB3.1 has been installed with 3 new partitions (ie DH0,1 & 2) can we use the following commands to restore the back up from CF0 into the DH2 folder?

CF0:backup_dh2/#? DH2: ALL CLONE QUIET
Well, it isn't optimal way to backup to FAT32 formatted device. Amiga files have certain attributes (protection bits) which aren't preserved on FAT32 filesystem. Especially system files do have those special bits. It is better to use copy command only to Amiga formatted devices. Although games and other files would probably still work just fine if copied through FAT.

If you want to backup to FAT32 device, you'd better archive files with lha or other method (create ISO image etc) which would preserve the protection bits. Archiving may be slow operation depending the amount of the files.

I'm not sure if you can use Amiga formatted devices on PCMCIA, but at least with internal IDE you could have several devices as said.
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Old 11 December 2012, 20:30   #13
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Question How can we select workbench as the partition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by demolition View Post
I recently upgraded my A600 from WB2.1 to WB3.1. I booted from the install floppy and chose 'intermediate' like fitzsteve recommends and it suggested to install to Workbench: which was correct. Did you boot from the install disk or from your old WB install?
Hi Demolition - this was the what happened when we booted WB2.1.

Once it had booted, we inserted the WB3.1 install disk and clicked on the install3.1 icon from the DF0.

From there we just click on the install_log_file. Where exactly do we select 'Workbench' as the partition to install to?

Thanks

Last edited by clitosa; 11 December 2012 at 21:15.
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Old 12 December 2012, 01:18   #14
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It's probably easier to just show you.
I have made a few screenshots of me upgrading a WB2.0 to 3.1.

On first picture I run the selected file to start the installation (df0:Install/English) from Install 3.1 disk.

I press 'Proceed', then 'Install Release 3.1'. Select 'Intermediate User' and press 'Proceed With Install'. 'Proceed' again and you should have reached picture 2 which in my case asks if I want to install to 'Workbench:'.

If this is different for you, press no and select the correct folder. If it is correct, just press 'Yes'. Choose languages and 'Proceed'. Select printers and 'Proceed'. Select keymaps and 'Proceed'. Now you see picture 3 which asks whether to save the old startup-sequence in the OLD folder.

Next picture press 'Delete Automatically' (this will only remove old versions of WB files, not your own files). From here on it will ask for your various workbench disks and copy all the new files to the HDD. After this is done you get to picture 4 and you press 'Proceed' to reboot the machine. All done.

Edit: And if you get a weird mouse pointer, fix it by deleting 'envarc:sys/palette.prefs' like suggested here:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=66341

Last edited by demolition; 02 May 2013 at 15:59.
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Old 12 December 2012, 08:26   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clitosa View Post
Thanks - Unfortunately we are not able to do anything with UAE as we are without the copyright ROM files and have no knowledge of how to set up the Emulator correctly.
I would highly recommend that you learn how to use WinUAE, it's a wonderful emulator, and you can 'preview' changes in there before making them to your real machine.
The ROM files are legally available as part of the Amiga Forever package, which is honestly the only reason to buy it.

The emulator itself isn't at all hard to use, especially if you already have some knowledge of how to use an Amiga (which you obviously have).
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Old 12 December 2012, 10:00   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clitosa View Post
From there we just click on the install_log_file.
This file shouldn't be there. It is a relict from a previous attempt to install to the floppy disk. Please delete it and then WRITE PROTECT all your floppy disks!! There is no need to write to the installation media at any time and you should never write to original disks anyway. If it asks you to remove the write protection, then you did something wrong.
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Old 12 December 2012, 10:01   #17
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Since he has a real Amiga, I'd suggest to just use transrom or similar to rip his original ROM for use in WinUAE.
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Old 12 December 2012, 16:21   #18
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Eek Install3.1 read error on disk block 1700

Quote:
Originally Posted by demolition View Post
It's probably easier to just show you.
Hi Dem - Thanks for that. That's a very clear guide you have provided. Really appreciated.

Having followed your instructions, we hit another error message having double clicked on the English directory, inside of the install folder of the WB3.1 Floppy Disk icon. Please refer to the 1st picture attached.

Then, once we click cancel we are given the screen shown in the second second attached picture.

Please advise if possible. Many Thanks
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Old 12 December 2012, 16:27   #19
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You have an error on your floppy Disks or the drive heads are dirty, you could try a floppy drive cleaning disk, the ones that use IPA are best (little bottle of alcohol solution)
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Old 12 December 2012, 16:38   #20
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Question amigakit 3.5" Floppy Disk Cleaner

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Originally Posted by fitzsteve View Post
You have an error on your floppy Disks or the drive heads are dirty, you could try a floppy drive cleaning disk, the ones that use IPA are best (little bottle of alcohol solution)
Hiya - Okay thanks. Could only find this one from amigakit but it does not appear to use IPA.

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...roducts_id=276

Do you this ok or would know where to find one that does?
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