English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 01 December 2012, 13:57   #1
dex
Eat Electric Death

dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 320
Floppy disk Sprite scaling pseudo-3D engines (Lotus, XJ220...), how were they done?

Hey there!

I remember some other thread about this topic but I just can't seem to find it (was there any?)

Is there any information on the net on how games like Lotus were actually done? On the Amiga in particular but also in general. How did it work from a technical point of view? How were actual "maps", worlds or racing tracks created? How did coders cope with the technical limitations of the Amiga and what did they have to exploit to get things to work? I am interested in engines for games like the Lotus series, Jaguar XJ220, Space Harrer, the 3D-sequences of Awesome or Black Viper, Space Harrier or Super Hang-On.

Well if someone knows something about the technical side or other interesting information about these engines, please post it here
dex is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 01 December 2012, 14:07   #2
Marcuz
Wurk???
Marcuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: .
Age: 41
Posts: 5,185
I think it was used in Eye of the Beholder too, for the monsters only, and I'm curious as whether the scaling of the same sprite resulted always in the same, pixel by pixel reduced version at different times at the same scaling factor, or if there was some randomness or other variables affecting the result.
Marcuz is offline  
Old 01 December 2012, 14:18   #3
TCD
Registered User

TCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 39
Posts: 24,032
This might be an interesting read then: http://www.extentofthejam.com/pseudo/
TCD is offline  
Old 01 December 2012, 14:35   #4
dex
Eat Electric Death

dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 320
Wow CyberDruid... this is actually exactly what I was looking for, amazing! Thanks!

Interesting information about Eye of the Beholder, played through the whole game and never realized that. Still, if any of you guys got any more nifty facts, feel free to post
dex is offline  
Old 01 December 2012, 14:42   #5
TCD
Registered User

TCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 39
Posts: 24,032
You're welcome
TCD is offline  
Old 01 December 2012, 16:40   #6
Mrs Beanbag
Glastonbridge Software
Mrs Beanbag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,202
I believe Lotus et al just stored copies of the various objects of different sizes.
Mrs Beanbag is offline  
Old 01 December 2012, 16:53   #7
s2325
Zone Friend

s2325's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gargore
Age: 37
Posts: 17,816
They made some nice tricks:



And this fence look almost like 3D (or maybe it is).
s2325 is offline  
Old 01 December 2012, 17:30   #8
Lord Riton
Registered User
Lord Riton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: France
Age: 45
Posts: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2325 View Post
And this fence look almost like 3D (or maybe it is).
Depends what you call 3D.

In fact, nothing on a flat screen can really be 3D

Even on so called 3D TVs, the objects we see as 3D objects, are not really in 3D, because the screen is indeed flat as well

We get the illusion of 3D objects. For me 3D is a matter of feeling, and if this game gives enough of a "3D feelling" to you, then call it 3D if you like
Lord Riton is offline  
Old 01 December 2012, 17:35   #9
dex
Eat Electric Death

dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 320
Somehow I also feel that those games (Lotus series in particular) had some kind of "open" or even "endless" feel. I don't exactly know why, any ideas? The only recent games that gave me that impression were "Need for Speed Hot Pursuit" (the 2010 one from Criterion) and "Need for Speed Most Wanted" (also the 2012 one from Criterion), both great "current gen" games by the way, I like them far more than the "illegal street race" type "Carbon" etc. games.

I mean Outrun even had A-B roads, but Lotus and XJ220 roads felt "endless" or more open even during lap races. Just my imagination...? Don't even know how to explain xD
dex is offline  
Old 01 December 2012, 18:06   #10
Mrs Beanbag
Glastonbridge Software
Mrs Beanbag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,202
The fence is, I suspect, pre-scaled bobs for the posts and blitter-drawn lines. It's 3D in the sense that there are X, Y and Z co-ordinates involved, but no rotations, only translations. Maybe this explains the "endless" feel - the road always goes in one direction, along the positive Z axis, and just moves side to side and up and down rather than actually bending round.

Also you never get any closer to the objects on the skyline!
Mrs Beanbag is offline  
Old 02 December 2012, 00:18   #11
dex
Eat Electric Death

dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 320
Right, the skyline... of course!
dex is offline  
Old 02 December 2012, 00:38   #12
Marcuz
Wurk???
Marcuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: .
Age: 41
Posts: 5,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
Also you never get any closer to the objects on the skyline!
You haven't play it long enough.
Marcuz is offline  
Old 02 December 2012, 01:11   #13
dex
Eat Electric Death

dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcuz View Post
You haven't play it long enough.
That post was ace! xD
dex is offline  
Old 02 December 2012, 01:37   #14
s2325
Zone Friend

s2325's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gargore
Age: 37
Posts: 17,816
Lotus HD for Xbox 360

s2325 is offline  
Old 02 December 2012, 12:53   #15
dex
Eat Electric Death

dex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 320
Hehe yeah xD Only a couple of years ago you would've also had to make it a LOT more grey and brown - not to mention the fake HDR... xD
dex is offline  
Old 02 December 2012, 13:50   #16
utri007
mä vaan
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 674
I don't know is this about pixel scaling, but best looking "3D game" for A500 is Narco police, it looks like 3D
utri007 is offline  
Old 02 December 2012, 16:46   #17
Retro1234
5150

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sycophantazia
Posts: 3,781
How is the floor done on the racing games? Just constant redraw or theres some scrolling?
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 02 December 2012, 17:23   #18
Lord Riton
Registered User
Lord Riton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: France
Age: 45
Posts: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boo Boo View Post
How is the floor done on the racing games? Just constant redraw or theres some scrolling?
Not sure how they were done exactly, but i can very imagine just one or maybe 2 bitplanes affected to the road/floor, and then playing with copper color bars and redrawing these 1/2 bitplanes entierly. 2 bitplanes shouldn't take to much time to redraw. Probably best using dual playfield mode (?)
Lord Riton is offline  
Old 02 December 2012, 17:25   #19
TCD
Registered User

TCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 39
Posts: 24,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boo Boo View Post
How is the floor done on the racing games? Just constant redraw or theres some scrolling?
Check my first post in this thread. That article is exactly about that
TCD is offline  
Old 02 December 2012, 17:35   #20
Retro1234
5150

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sycophantazia
Posts: 3,781
Thanks still not 100% sure about some it like bringing in a corner shame the Qbasic link seems dead
Retro1234 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best sprite scaling/Doom style engines on Amiga? ImmortalA1000 Amiga scene 89 15 October 2017 14:24
Pre-Scaling before Bilinear Scaling? rsn8887 request.UAE Wishlist 6 05 September 2015 20:13
How do pseudo-3D racing game engines work? absence Coders. General 2 29 May 2010 01:05
Jaguar XJ220 game is now worth more than one XJ220 sparkplug! Paul_s MarketPlace 3 30 April 2009 17:58
Request: Jaguar XJ220, lotus 3 Johan Walfridso project.Sprites 3 09 February 2006 02:25

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.20905 seconds with 11 queries