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Old 05 December 2014, 14:04   #281
turrican3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimbal View Post
Looks like for the Arcade version they went more for more shades of gray and brown rather than actual color.

I see that the AGA version has been moved to Autumn instead of taking place in summer (check the bushes)
That's why you have clouds in the miggy version.
It's even an ecs version, we try to don't exceed 32 colours and we have a beta which works on amiga 500 (winuae).
It's not easy because i have to reduce the colors, but i have to keep the colors of all characters too (23 colours) this range of colours are the same for all stages, it just let me 9 colours to deal with.
making a 32 colours instead of 64, ask a lot of efforts but it will improve the animations... But i'm not sure we will keep the game compatible with the ecs, we will try but we have more stages to converts and i don't know if staying under 32 colours will always be possible... If finally a next stage looks like a shit, we will perhaps have to switch to 64 colours.
edited i have to change 8 to 9, big mistake lol !

Last edited by turrican3; 05 December 2014 at 15:24.
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Old 05 December 2014, 14:19   #282
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How about 2 versions, ECS and AGA?
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Old 05 December 2014, 14:21   #283
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Not a fan of the added clouds, I'd rather the graphics were exactly the same as the arcade.

Why is it called AGA when it uses 32 colours? The graphics look great, but they'd be better if they had the full palette available.
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Old 05 December 2014, 14:30   #284
turrican3
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Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
Not a fan of the added clouds, I'd rather the graphics were exactly the same as the arcade.

Why is it called AGA when it uses 32 colours? The graphics look great, but they'd be better if they had the full palette available.
At first, we didn't expect it could run on ecs but leathered give it a try and it works.
Even on aga, it's difficult to raise the numbers of colours without loosing some speed.
It's a question of choices, at the first look, i was like you : why not go for more colours but leathered did the right choice (i think)... The graphics are good (i think) and it preserves the speed and i like the idea to make it available to more amigans even for the guy who has a vanilla 1200.
But the min spec is already to have more than 200 kb of extra memory.
But we could perhaps make a version without music and it could be launched on a vanilla amiga but really the musics that addrdesign did deserve to be listened, he did an incredible job.
For the clouds i just added it to make a little different version than the arcade... Because like someone said here : if i want to play a 1:1 version, i have mame or my x68000.
It's leathered who tell me if he likes it or not, it's always a wip, the clouds can be removed with no times, i just give more choices to leathered.

Last edited by turrican3; 05 December 2014 at 14:42.
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Old 05 December 2014, 14:55   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
Not a fan of the added clouds, I'd rather the graphics were exactly the same as the arcade.

Why is it called AGA when it uses 32 colours? The graphics look great, but they'd be better if they had the full palette available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2325 View Post
How about 2 versions, ECS and AGA?
Good questions. To clarify, we are using (edit) 22 (actually 21 ad 0 is transparent) colours for characters and 9 which are free for stages which can obviously be 'recycled' by the copper. What turrican has achieved here is the image without copper colour changes. This is all basically ecs graphics of course.

We have in mind 2 versions- far easier to have different executables for each. The AGA version will give the best quality for low end AGA machines because of the increased fetch mode - also using the only means i can use to produce parallax.

this us the primary version. ECS compatability is there but parallax scrolling would rely on me learning a new trick - namely proper 'old school' sprite multiplexing as opposed to the kind of AGA fake being used now. That said, it would seem only proper to produce something playable for as many machines as possible if we can get therewith this main version. Parallax or no. I'll stop there- typing on phone is utterly tedious!

Last edited by leathered; 09 December 2014 at 16:39.
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Old 05 December 2014, 15:08   #286
turrican3
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Leathered,
when we will have finished this version, we could talk it : "min spec version",
we could think about an "hi spec version", the target of the "hi spec version" could be a 68030 25 mhz or 50 mhz aga machine.
But we perhaps have to finish this version first and perhaps you will want to port an other game than to stay on final fight.
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Old 05 December 2014, 15:26   #287
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Well think about it. CPS1 has better resolution, runs 60hz, there is possibility for 3000 colors on screen from 65536, has 256 sprites per scanline, the max. sprite size is 256x256, has 3 tile layers, 384 KB video RAM, games have size as big as 8 mb or more, zero loading times due to ROMs. Last but not least games made by professionals for a huge crowd (arcade).
It's a little monster. You cannot expect miracles here like running same quality games on Amiga 500.
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Old 05 December 2014, 15:50   #288
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If you keep the clouds perhaps think about some dithering to blend them in a bit... If you're trying to improve on the graphics further, Its presently pretty much the same as the arcade and looks great, but there's not much detail on the underside of the roof either and enough colours in the palette to add some flood lights, some more panels/structure there, keeping the contrast on any additional detail really low of course.

I'd perhaps be willing to have a go myself, (just to improve the clouds perhaps) using a real a1200 and my amiga tablet + deluxe paint. I work professionally as an artist for 10 years, and have worked in the games industry on everything from Indy's to AAA productions.

I understand that the team probably has all the people they need, my contribution may not be wanted, and I couldn't promise a lot of time to devote to it, nor would I want to butt in on someone's territory either, someone who's probably invested a lot of personal time so far... so my apologies to whoever is concerned (Turrican 3?).

Might be fun though.
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Old 05 December 2014, 17:23   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve T View Post
If you keep the clouds perhaps think about some dithering to blend them in a bit... If you're trying to improve on the graphics further, Its presently pretty much the same as the arcade and looks great, but there's not much detail on the underside of the roof either and enough colours in the palette to add some flood lights, some more panels/structure there, keeping the contrast on any additional detail really low of course.

I'd perhaps be willing to have a go myself, (just to improve the clouds perhaps) using a real a1200 and my amiga tablet + deluxe paint. I work professionally as an artist for 10 years, and have worked in the games industry on everything from Indy's to AAA productions.

I understand that the team probably has all the people they need, my contribution may not be wanted, and I couldn't promise a lot of time to devote to it, nor would I want to butt in on someone's territory either, someone who's probably invested a lot of personal time so far... so my apologies to whoever is concerned (Turrican 3?).

Might be fun though.
From my part no problem if you give us a help.
Leathered will surely contact you !
Great thanks to propose your help.

Last edited by turrican3; 05 December 2014 at 17:29.
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Old 05 December 2014, 17:39   #290
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Well think about it. CPS1 has better resolution, runs 60hz, there is possibility for 3000 colors on screen from 65536, has 256 sprites per scanline, the max. sprite size is 256x256, has 3 tile layers, 384 KB video RAM, games have size as big as 8 mb or more, zero loading times due to ROMs. Last but not least games made by professionals for a huge crowd (arcade).
It's a little monster. You cannot expect miracles here like running same quality games on Amiga 500.
I agree 100%, although I'm sure that miracles were what some of us were expecting back in the days when looking at the screenshots on the back.
Hopefully no-one is expecting a miracle with this, but a playable version made by amateur fanatics.
I agree also with some of the sentiments earlier in the thread - I enjoy seeing the conversions regardless of the obvious compromises made from the arcades. R-type on the spectrum and later amstrad version springs to mind. Of course the Amiga version was pretty good too (which conversely was expected of the Amiga).
None of this alters the fact that I (and others) are potentially nuts for bothering with this - but the Amiga scene is made of people that for whatever reason support the machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve T View Post
If you keep the clouds perhaps think about some dithering to blend them in a bit... If you're trying to improve on the graphics further, Its presently pretty much the same as the arcade and looks great, but there's not much detail on the underside of the roof either and enough colours in the palette to add some flood lights, some more panels/structure there, keeping the contrast on any additional detail really low of course.

I'd perhaps be willing to have a go myself, (just to improve the clouds perhaps) using a real a1200 and my amiga tablet + deluxe paint. I work professionally as an artist for 10 years, and have worked in the games industry on everything from Indy's to AAA productions.

I understand that the team probably has all the people they need, my contribution may not be wanted, and I couldn't promise a lot of time to devote to it, nor would I want to butt in on someone's territory either, someone who's probably invested a lot of personal time so far... so my apologies to whoever is concerned (Turrican 3?).

Might be fun though.
May I make a bold sweeping statement here and say that I doubt Turrican3 will be upset if we get more help (he's always trying to get me more help, actually!)- and to say that we don't need it would be just wrong. There have on and off been a lot of contributions including critical input - what I will say is that no contribution will be forgotten when it comes to credits, and the more the merrier. The fact that Turrican has grown in confidence as the project has progressed is a great help - it means that when I get the time I have to concentrate less on doing everything solo - and of course the music is already taken care of at least for HD. In part I owe it to those involved to make something of this work, if at all possible - and if others help then of course it makes it all the more likely to become a reality.
I was half thinking of putting up another 'advert' here encouraging 'recruitment'. I think for now it's easiest to say that if you want to get involved there's plenty of room of plenty of work. PM either myself or Turrican3 and we can take it from there!
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Old 05 December 2014, 18:40   #291
turrican3
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If someone know how to code for cd32 (launching cdda tracks), it would be awesome.
A cd32 version should be a must and we spoke about the problem of a vanilla cd32 running final fight aga because the game needs some fast ram...
But if we can use cdda it will decrease the memory needed and a proper cd32 version should be possible then.
And believe me i'm a big cd32 fan, i would like so much a cd32 version.
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Old 05 December 2014, 21:00   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody View Post
Well think about it. CPS1 has better resolution,
True.

Quote:
runs 60hz,
True.

Quote:
there is possibility for 3000 colors on screen from 65536,
Wrong. This coin-op system use a fix palette of 256 colors. But for easyness for the devs, they have access to multiples palettes.

Quote:
has 256 sprites per scanline, the max. sprite size is 256x256, has 3 tile layers,
Yeah

Quote:
384 KB video RAM,
The VRAM contains references in word boundaries for tiles. As such, 384kb kilo is here a huge memory.

Quote:
games have size as big as 8 mb or more, zero loading times due to ROMs. Last but not least games made by professionals for a huge crowd (arcade).
It's a little monster. You cannot expect miracles here like running same quality games on Amiga 500.
Getting it on A500 is not motivating at all. Doing it better on 1200 is really cool
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Old 10 December 2014, 15:09   #293
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Here's my crappy take on the background... I reworked the 'free' palette to give me some more primary greens, the hedge is now real lush I also made it more summery and for now at least removed the clouds from the upper part of the sky (sorry Turrican 3!)

I have made a few changes, infact its nearly entirely new - repixelled to make best use of the available palette and to try and improve it as I see best.... Yes there are some mistakes, some things aren't quite finished, it could use some more work, I'm sure that not everyone will like it but I'm trying my best with a big scene, lots of tones but a very small palette, where a number of the tones available aren't very useful to replicating the arcade look. I've suggested a few global palette changes, but it may not be workable.

This is an amiga specific 32 colour version so again its not pixel for pixel like the arcade. I've tried to have fun with it, rather than drive myself mad(er)... There's a couple of Amiga specific easter-eggs in there too...
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Old 10 December 2014, 15:14   #294
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Steve, in my opinion it looks EVEN better than the original one!

It has a great Amiga feeling and looks livelier than the original too.

Excellent job!
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Old 10 December 2014, 15:37   #295
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I see what have You done with that car over there
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Old 10 December 2014, 15:45   #296
Steve T
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hehe

jbenam, thanks, glad you like it and really appreciate the comment
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Old 10 December 2014, 15:46   #297
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Steve: That looks AWESOME. The dithering makes all the difference... and added colour on the posters and the fuel gauges and not even mentioning the green hedge, very nice shadows/reflections on the skyscrapers (plus a very nice top)... WOW, if you redo all levels like this then the Amiga version will make every other machine jealous
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Old 10 December 2014, 16:04   #298
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I'll give my pov... I don't like too much dithering.
Now it's a question of taste... I like some parts but for me in general,
there is too much dithering and i have the same feeling with videogames which used too much dithering. Now, it's just my opinion, tomcat666 seems to love it.
It's just that i don't like too much dithering in videogames.
But i understand if others like it.
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Old 10 December 2014, 16:09   #299
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Dithering is excellent way to trick eyes if you use CRT display.
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Old 10 December 2014, 16:23   #300
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yes it is meant to be viewed on low-res CRT Even so dithering is not for everyone, but I feel with the limited palette, its the lesser of two evils. Like i said, its not perfect... I may try and improve some of the patterns, sometimes it may need to 'rest' a little more on a single tone before dithering into the next, but mostly i'm pretty happy with it.

Tomcat, Turrican, thanks for the comments

It was much easier to work on to base this on the files that Turrican provided to me, than starting from scratch, but even so it took me about 16 hours to complete all the rework, I basically started and worked constantly on it for the past day or so. I should really be working on my commissioned projects, oh well

Looking at it on EAB, Does it look like the skyscraper is under construction or on fire?
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