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Old 28 August 2013, 01:15   #921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukassid View Post
You answered yourself
I take it you mean DH0: would also be 'swapdisk'? Well, I just haven't known or seen any Amigas running the system off FAT before. I guess it's been well tested? And performance might be better than FFS (perhaps)?

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Originally Posted by lukassid
This was discussed before, it's external for many reasons
And before, it was internal for many reasons. Not sharing them won't help people who wonder why. I suggested some possible answers to dJOS, who put the question probably the same way a few others would.

Why is it external?
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Old 28 August 2013, 03:32   #922
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Originally Posted by Photon View Post
And before, it was internal for many reasons. Not sharing them won't help people who wonder why. I suggested some possible answers to dJOS, who put the question probably the same way a few others would.

Why is it external?
Jens has answered this question before (internal install wont pass his GF test), i dont agree with his rationale (I mean who the heck lets their Wife/GF near their beloved Amiga's insides!!!) but it's his product, he can do what he likes with it.

*shrugs*
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Old 28 August 2013, 03:52   #923
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Originally Posted by Photon View Post
Supporting removable media such as SD cards would be convenient, since it allows transferring files without shutting down the A500.
There are SD to CF adaptors available (I use one with my A1200s). That might be a possible solution for accessing SD cards with the ACA500. It might not be safe to hot plug them though.
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Old 28 August 2013, 04:30   #924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dJOS View Post
Jens has answered this question before (internal install wont pass his GF test), i dont agree with his rationale (I mean who the heck lets their Wife/GF near their beloved Amiga's insides!!!) but it's his product, he can do what he likes with it.

*shrugs*
There are some advantages to it being external, for one thing it makes for nice easy access to the secondary CF slot for file transfers. It really does need someone to make a case of some sort for it though. I'd be too frightened of ESD to go near my A500 without wearing an anti-static wrist band otherwise.
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Old 28 August 2013, 04:38   #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnujon View Post
There are some advantages to it being external, for one thing it makes for nice easy access to the secondary CF slot for file transfers. It really does need someone to make a case of some sort for it though. I'd be too frightened of ESD to go near my A500 without wearing an anti-static wrist band otherwise.
True enuf, I dont really have a problem with it being external, I just think the explanation was a little silly. If the explanation had been, "an external design means adding and removing CF cards is simple, fast and safe" no one could fault that.

Considering the Overall expense tho, it really should come with a proper case - imo to be a really useful accelerator, the aca500 needs at least an aca1220 added. So right there you are already up for $200USD and you still dont have a case for it.

anyway I think I've said enuf.
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Old 28 August 2013, 10:03   #926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
And before, it was internal for many reasons. Not sharing them won't help people who wonder why.
I did share the reasons: The target group of this product is NOT primarily in this forum. I want to bring back "old Amigans" who have had their A500 in storage for over 15 years. These people probably never did anything else than sliding a disk into the computer to start a game. They are not like all you guys who happily use a screwdriver on a classic computer.

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Originally Posted by gnujon View Post
There are SD to CF adaptors available (I use one with my A1200s). That might be a possible solution for accessing SD cards with the ACA500.
I have two of these SD->CF adapters here. Both are CF-Type II, the "thick" type. However, I will most probably change the standoffs to a solid plastic block under the CF card slots in order to support the "free-floating" CF cards. It will make insertion easier, but it will also exclude Type-II cards.

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Originally Posted by gnujon View Post
I'd be too frightened of ESD to go near my A500 without wearing an anti-static wrist band otherwise.
ESD is mostly an artefact of the 80s when NMOS and HMOS chips were state-of-the-art. Today's CMOS chips must all stand the 2kV human body model: You discharge into the unit and it may crash, but it'll continue to work after a reset.

It's even harder on networking equipment: During the CE test of the X-Surf-100, it had to stand a 6kV contact-discharge. The condition to pass the test was that it's allowed to lose link, but needs to come back and continue to work without human interaction.

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Originally Posted by dJOS View Post
Considering the Overall expense tho, it really should come with a proper case
Will you ever stop telling people how to do things your way? Didn't we already find out that this product does not target you? You want it "different", and that would make it way more expensive. That's not an option for the concept of the ACA500. If you want to create a different product, I have already offered to make one according to your specs, and you didn't come back with a proper request. If you want to continue talking about a product that suits your needs, please do that in a different thread - thank you.

The ACA500 targets people who have been away from the Amiga for a long time. They don't have UAE installed, so copying Amiga files to a FAT-formatted card is required for an easy restart into the "hobby Amiga" (and makes my manual easier to write).

Jens
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Old 28 August 2013, 10:38   #927
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Jens, I don't wish to start another heated discussion with you, my comments merely reflect what folk are saying, on various Amiga forums, they intend to do with the aca500.

I appreciate you have a target audience in mind but without being members of Amiga forums like this one, I wonder how you will reach those folk?

I will say this tho, i do think the aca500 is a much much better product than I have previously given you credit.

*wonders off for some humble pie*
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Old 28 August 2013, 13:11   #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
The ACA500 targets people who have been away from the Amiga for a long time. They don't have UAE installed, so copying Amiga files to a FAT-formatted card is required for an easy restart into the "hobby Amiga" (and makes my manual easier to write).
Wow, That's sweet!
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Old 28 August 2013, 16:17   #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
I have two of these SD->CF adapters here. Both are CF-Type II, the "thick" type. However, I will most probably change the standoffs to a solid plastic block under the CF card slots in order to support the "free-floating" CF cards. It will make insertion easier, but it will also exclude Type-II cards.
With some Type-II SD to CF adaptors it's actually possible to remove their outer casings so that they will fit into a Type-I CF slot:

http://vimeo.com/m/30075882

There are also MicroSD to CF Type-I adaptors available, so that might be another option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
ESD is mostly an artefact of the 80s when NMOS and HMOS chips were state-of-the-art. Today's CMOS chips must all stand the 2kV human body model: You discharge into the unit and it may crash, but it'll continue to work after a reset.
That's good to know . I'm not sure that I could ever untrain myself from reaching for the anti-static strap though.
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Old 28 August 2013, 21:45   #930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnujon View Post
There are SD to CF adaptors available (I use one with my A1200s). That might be a possible solution for accessing SD cards with the ACA500. It might not be safe to hot plug them though.
Hot-plugging is what's different about passive flash storage though, and what makes for excellent transfer solutions. With CF you're removing power from a "drive", with SD et al you're removing an idle flash memory and resuming when you plug it in again. Which means it's not really hot-plugging.

I think it's a pretty clear-put question: Can I transfer files without rebooting my Amiga every time? It would be absolutely great to know if this is possible with an SD adapter!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
Will you ever stop telling people how to do things your way?
I think you're out of luck there, hehe. fans will never cease to promote ideas for upcoming, exciting products - has nothing to do with the independent thoughts or skill of the developer

Also, complete noobs (hobby users on the level you speak of) come to us on the forums even to get their A500 up and running, so I think the ones who have A500s have already been educated to the point where they can plug a board in a socket inside the machine as opposed to a socket outside the machine.

Certainly that kind of hobby user wouldn't know how to get OS+software installed on their A500, or where to get a potentially licensed preinstalled CF card, or where to order a matching case for your product.

Believe it or not, everyone who buys this card will want a case for it. But I'm jumping the gun a little bit here. Have you sourced cases for it? Otherwise I think you should get in touch with someone who can make them and then sell them with/without a case.

Or make some internal adapter for those who have the skill to put it inside?

ACA500 has a well formed feature spec with many good decisions, and I've promoted these on various places because I think it's a good card.


At least the promise of a case (or inside-adapter) for ACA500 will silence many critics/convince stubborn to-be customers And I think even hobby customers will think twice about have the card outside and exposed. (Compare the living-room situation I wrote about.)

I write this knowing you've probably weathered these questions, and perhaps I judge too much from what has been disclosed so far about the card. For all I know, there may already be pictures shared somewhere with the card in a neat little case.

Last edited by Photon; 28 August 2013 at 21:51.
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Old 29 August 2013, 00:13   #931
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Jens, a quick question, as you know the 2mb ram is an issue for me but I have thought of a solution that may work for some of us that already have ram expansions.

Will the aca500 by itself (no aca12xx installed) play nice with one of Kippers 4mb auto config ram boards and give a useable total of 6mb?

This would be a great solution for many of us that want the features you are including in the aca500 but don't want to move to an 020 or better CPU.
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Old 29 August 2013, 09:14   #932
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A few postings ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
More good news: I found a 68030-cpu for my "leftover ACA1230 card" that runs without cooling at 56MHz. It's stable on the ACA500 for an extended period, so I can now safely say that the ACA1230-56 will work on the ACA500.

Will test the 28MHz version in a few days - I have other things on the agenda now.

Jens
Does the ACA 1230/28 works with ACA 500?
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Old 29 August 2013, 09:49   #933
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Originally Posted by dJOS View Post
Will the aca500 by itself (no aca12xx installed) play nice with one of Kippers 4mb auto config ram boards and give a useable total of 6mb?
4M autoconfig-mem will only work under special circumstances that I do not want to reveal at this point (yes, there's still an unannounced feature). 2M Autoconfig-fastmem will definitely work in 68000 mode. We will probably be able to truncate memory size in software (on-the-fly patched Kickstart), so no need to reduce memory size of the expansion you have.

Further, trapdoor memory expansions will work: If you have one of those up-to-1.8M-trapdoor memory expansions that require a Gary-adapter, you don't need to remove it. That memory can be added to the freemem pool as well, giving you almost the amount of memory that you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amiga1260 View Post
Does the ACA 1230/28 works with ACA 500?
Still didn't have time to test that, sorry. Will include that in the tests when I get to the currently-not-working ACA1220.

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Old 29 August 2013, 09:55   #934
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Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
4M autoconfig-mem will only work under special circumstances that I do not want to reveal at this point (yes, there's still an unannounced feature). 2M Autoconfig-fastmem will definitely work in 68000 mode. We will probably be able to truncate memory size in software (on-the-fly patched Kickstart), so no need to reduce memory size of the expansion you have.

Further, trapdoor memory expansions will work: If you have one of those up-to-1.8M-trapdoor memory expansions that require a Gary-adapter, you don't need to remove it. That memory can be added to the freemem pool as well, giving you almost the amount of memory that you want.

Jens
Interesting, thanks for the info.
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Old 29 August 2013, 10:43   #935
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Given you want both GF proof (external) and noob-proof (FAT), does it mean it'll circumvent the 4GB limit posed by the ide drivers in the kickstart? Just to measure out how easy it'll be for new folks.

I'm of course curious on how the entire setup is planned to make this somewhat newcomer-friendly.
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Old 29 August 2013, 12:08   #936
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"GF test" was coined by dJOS, though. At least I haven't seen Jens mentioning it? If we're at the very newbie stage I would love to see Amigakit or someone selling a preinstalled card with a licensed WB 3.1+ClassicWB softkicking to kick 3.1! Then we'd really be talking plug in and go And then of course it wouldn't matter if the card was FAT or FFS.
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Old 29 August 2013, 12:11   #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
"GF test" was coined by dJOS, though. At least I haven't seen Jens mentioning it?
Actually I didn't coin that phrase at all - perhaps if you search this thread you'll find it's origins.

Edit 2, I think I found it:

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=860172

Last edited by dJOS; 29 August 2013 at 12:33.
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Old 29 August 2013, 15:38   #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
If we're at the very newbie stage I would love to see Amigakit or someone selling a preinstalled card with a licensed WB 3.1+ClassicWB softkicking to kick 3.1!
No need to soft-kick. ACA500 comes with two Kickstart licenses: Kick 1.3 and Kick 3.1. You choose the version on startup (nice menu!), and after decrunching (about 9 seconds on 14MHz 68000, 2 seconds on 68030), it behaves like a real ROM.

Jens
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Old 29 August 2013, 16:15   #939
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Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
No need to soft-kick. ACA500 comes with two Kickstart licenses: Kick 1.3 and Kick 3.1. You choose the version on startup (nice menu!), and after decrunching (about 9 seconds on 14MHz 68000, 2 seconds on 68030), it behaves like a real ROM.

Jens
That decrunching is with each boot or each change?
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Old 29 August 2013, 17:37   #940
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That decrunching is with each boot or each change?
Only on change, and it's twice as fast if you're decrunching Kick1.3.

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