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Old 05 February 2013, 14:21   #501
Crumb
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@Jens

unfortunately, the current design makes impossible to use A500 on keyboard trays (a shelf under the table). Keyboard trays are wide enough to have stuff on both sides, but that ACA500 design collides with the table and forces keyboard tray users to keep the A500 on top of the table, taking up too much space and increasing wife factor.

I sincerely prefer to have a wider A500 instead of a taller A500 one. A1200 board could be on top of ACA500, put the A1200 connector elevated some centimeters on top of ACA, put a pair of plastic legs so A1200 turbocard doesn't move and plug the A1200 board leaving the overall set as a "sandwich", just like some hd controllers included space for the HD on top of the memory/hd controller, the A1200 accelerator could be located on top of ACA500. You would need some longer pins and a quite small board with A1200 like slot.

I have made a kick squetch (quite ugly) but I guess it's easy to understand:
-put the 2 CF slots in the front
-put an A1200 cpu like connector elevated some centimeters using some legs like the ones you have used for the 90 degree angle connector
-Put a disk drive like connector to feed externally the board optionally
-lots of space for ACA500 logic and jumpers to disable IDE/ROMS/etc so my lovely Blizzard1240 works ;-)
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Last edited by Crumb; 05 February 2013 at 14:40.
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Old 05 February 2013, 14:24   #502
paulo_becas
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Jens you're the man... It's amazing wht you've acomplished for us retro guys and miggy fans.
I'm very excited with the news and you get my entire respect for everything you're doing.

No complaints from here.

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Old 05 February 2013, 15:19   #503
moijk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumb View Post
unfortunately, the current design makes impossible to use A500 on keyboard trays (a shelf under the table). Keyboard trays are wide enough to have stuff on both sides, but that ACA500 design collides with the table and forces keyboard tray users to keep the A500 on top of the table, taking up too much space and increasing wife factor.
I have the opposite problem, my keyboard tray would fit stuff heightwise unless one , but don't like it that much more in horizontal.
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Old 05 February 2013, 15:27   #504
attle
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The A500 is pretty damn "wide" as it is, I think this is a lot more practical for most people. I'm just hoping for a pretty case for the ACA500, even though I can see it will be a bit "tall"
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Old 05 February 2013, 15:45   #505
Schoenfeld
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The highest point of the ACA500-ACA1232 combo as photographed is 44mm higher than the highest point of the A500 (a bit less than 2 inches).

There have been more complaints on a1k.org about the location of the CF card slots - people were afraid that they'd rip off the card(s) while typing. I can't confirm this, especially because it's hard to reach to the CF card while your middle finger is supposed to be on or near the letter F on the keyboard.

Unfortunately, there can only be one version: Either this tall version ("prototype 2"), or a flat, wide version. I can't even say which one would be cheaper (I'd guess it's a draw), but that sandwich-solution suggested by Crumb is not an option - it would not help anything (width-problem remains), and on top of that, it would make production a lot more complicated.

Opinions welcome!

Jens
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Old 05 February 2013, 17:33   #506
demolition
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The only 'real' way is to do a proper survey, and not just listening to whoever shouts the loudest. There are many good arguments for both designs.

That being said, I don't think the ACA500 will be for me unless it is internal, which is probably off the table now. I could probably accept a small external box about 1 inch wide and not taller than the A500, which would mean the 1200 acc. would still have to be inside the 500 and maybe just power supply and CF cards in the external cabinet, but it's hard for me to see how it could be possible to achieve. Even harder when you consider the price target.
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Old 05 February 2013, 17:40   #507
nikos.rizos
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Hey Jens.

I honestly don't know what to say.

I am somehow disappointed. I wanted to have an internal solution for the 500 so bad that this is a big let down for me.

I can understand the concept of "girlfriend-installation-test" to make this as easy to install as possible.

But lets face it. Your target group is people that had a 500 back in the day and still have it somewhere and have time to use it.

Most of that people who visit eab/a1k/amibay/amiga.org know how to do this. How to install an internal solution

Most of the people who don't frequently visit them sites but are amiga users I bet you that can install this if it was an internal solution.

I could never understand why you had to emphasize so much on "girlfriend-installation-friendly"

Who is going to buy a product (internal or external) to use his 500 after 20+ years if he is not into amigas or have a knowledge of computers in general.

Some mates of mine that had a 500 back in the day, when I showed them my 500 with a Viper520CD some months ago, they couldn't care less for an accelerator for a 500, WHDLoad or anyhting like that. For them a PC with WinUAE and quick blast once every some day is enough to bring back some memories

Give them some floppies, a good old competition pro joystick and that's more than enough for a trip down memory lane.

If some one is not a collector or into amigas the last few years in general a) he couldn't know of such a product existed because he would never visit eab, vesalia, amigakit and b) he wouldnt find this necessary.

So why all this fuss for "girlfriend-installation-friendly"?

Please don't get me wrong. You are doing a great job for the amiga community and I have to thank you for this, but I think this is not the best thing for the legendary 500

Nick
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Old 05 February 2013, 17:47   #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos.rizos View Post
I could never understand why you had to emphasize so much on "girlfriend-installation-friendly"
Regardless of what we like to think of our selfs, real world experience tells us that if something can be messed up, it's going to be messed up. Making it girlfriend-installation-friendly is just one way of cutting back on possible issues. I'm guessing that there will be issues enough anyway, with batteries & capacitor issues roaming wild.
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Old 05 February 2013, 17:59   #509
nikos.rizos
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Batteries & capacitor issues will not be solved by a huge external design (when combined with an ACA1231 or ACA1232) like the pyramids of egypt. Batteries & capacitor issues will still be there no matter how easy or difficult the installation will be...internal or external.

Anyway...I should probably shut up, lets wait and see the final product
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Old 05 February 2013, 18:03   #510
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I Just bought another desk if you ask me...
I know size matters but for a computer that doesn't have new hardware for 2 decades i think everything is welcome
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Old 05 February 2013, 19:25   #511
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Sorry, but this external card is nice for an April fool.
Just look awful to get it like that, w/o case, on the A500 side.

It's not like if we missed space inside a A500...

Last edited by TotO; 05 February 2013 at 19:59.
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Old 05 February 2013, 19:46   #512
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I'm looking forward to a solution like this but i'd rather have a wider a500 than have it stick up in the air like that.
Internal or external this will breathe life where it's needed.
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Old 05 February 2013, 21:23   #513
Schoenfeld
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos.rizos View Post
Most of that people who visit eab/a1k/amibay/amiga.org know how to do this. How to install an internal solution
That's one group of people, but definitely not the group that I'm targetting. Besides, you forgot to mention another group that is included in yours: Those who *think* they're skilled enough to install an internal solution, but actually aren't. You'd have to pay for their returns as well, because those are mostly the customers who are "always right" and would never pay for damage that they have done. They return a product mechanically damaged+incomplete and demand a refund (no joke!). Such cases are not exactly rare, and they cost time, money and most of all: nerves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos.rizos View Post
If some one is not a collector or into amigas the last few years in general a) he couldn't know of such a product existed because he would never visit eab, vesalia, amigakit and b) he wouldnt find this necessary.
This is the part where "advertising" comes in: Make it cheap, make it seen on other channels as well, and we gain a few new faces in our groups. That's the whole target of making the ACA500. If it was just for the existing customers, I could care less about the A500, as you guys all have a maxed-out A1200 at home already.

Jens
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Old 05 February 2013, 21:54   #514
Calabazam
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Wonderful external design.
It is also important to respect the original A500 case. I would never cut any cm of the plastics of my original A500 to fit some USB or VGA port.
External expansion solves this.

I would just like to know if a passthrough for other old expansions (A570 for instance) is still possible.
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Old 05 February 2013, 21:57   #515
johnim
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hi not to criticize on another great piece of work jens thanks for bringing this to us

but couldnt an some sort of angled adapter be made optional for laying the aca520 flat
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Old 05 February 2013, 22:03   #516
Mr B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikos.rizos View Post
Batteries & capacitor issues will not be solved by a huge external design (when combined with an ACA1231 or ACA1232) like the pyramids of egypt. Batteries & capacitor issues will still be there no matter how easy or difficult the installation will be...internal or external.
Of course not, thats my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
Such cases are not exactly rare, and they cost time, money and most of all: nerves.
Hey now, don't make the Amiga comunity out to look that bad. We still haven't demanded you on a pole, dressed in tar and feathers, carried out of town, chanting "Indivision software - Where is it" ;- )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
This is the part where "advertising" comes in: Make it cheap, make it seen on other channels as well, and we gain a few new faces in our groups. That's the whole target of making the ACA500. If it was just for the existing customers, I could care less about the A500, as you guys all have a maxed-out A1200 at home already.
Your not the least bit worried about the huge number of A500's that have been stored away on a shelf in the attic for god knows how many years, and since it worked when it got put there, it should work now as well, and it's your stuff that made their A500 not work anymore?

The rest of us knows there can be both battery & capacitor damage to the PCB, or the caps could simply be dead, but a new to the scene owner of a A500 wont know this. I sure hope you got a strategy for this, coz i'm sure worried about this, more then anything else. You've been providing first rate hardware over and over, so i'm fairly confident your hardware will be good this time to, but how do one make sure the costumer doesn't make a poor judged buy, and then give you a bad rep over it.
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Old 05 February 2013, 22:30   #517
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The reality is that the Zeus board look more promising on all points, so you search "who can buy this transformers"... Sure, geek peoples that not open their hardware and are not worried by a non aesthetical solution... Here the new target?

Last edited by TotO; 05 February 2013 at 22:40.
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Old 05 February 2013, 22:38   #518
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The 'reality' is that noone forces you to buy anything. Consumers will decide if the ACA500 is worth buying or not. It's a bit boring to read through all those 'broken dreams' posts at times when you want to keep up with the actual progress. Just my 2 cent.
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Old 05 February 2013, 22:59   #519
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I don't have an A500, but as you were asking for opinions, I don't like it. I preffer as others wider than higher.
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Old 05 February 2013, 23:25   #520
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Thank you for all the hard work, Jens. My concern about the higher design (rather than wider) is I just KNOW I'm going to catch it on something (my sleeve, cleaning cloth, etc.). The more protrusions, the more likely I'll snag it and possibly do damage.
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