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Old 30 June 2012, 07:01   #1
dr.mushroom
 
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Pal - Ntsc

I recently bought a PAL Amiga 1200, but I'm in the US, and I'm not exactly sure what I need in order to connect it to a monitor.

I considered buying a converter and just using VGA, but I came across something about a scan doubler? Wiki helped be understand a little about it, but I'm still not sure exactly what it is or what I should look for if/when I purchase one.

Whether I try using RF or composite, I'm going to run into the same PAL - NTSC problem either way, correct? (e.g. I'm going to need a signal converter)

I have a 1702 (could be an '01). It is my understanding that this is one of the monitors which is strictly either NTSC or PAL - mine being the former. What, if any, are my options for using this monitor with my PAL 1200?

I read holding the mouse button while booting will switch between PAL and NTSC. Is this for running foreign software, changing video output, or both?

I really appreciate any input.
 
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Old 30 June 2012, 07:29   #2
lost_loven
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I used a pal machine with a 1702 monitor before. had no problem at all. If the screen rolls there is a v hold on the back i believe. ( this was so 20 years ago for me at least).

lost
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Old 30 June 2012, 08:50   #3
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to change between pal and ntsc hold down both mouse buttons while booting your computer..you will landing in the amigas boot-menu..press space to toggle between pal and ntsc..so you can use ntsc from startup..when startup finished simply choose an ntsc-video-driver to boot in ntsc next time (Workbench:Prefs/Screen)..if your Screen isn't centered correctly use overscan to adjust your Screen..i recommend you to use a pal monitor because the better resolutions and the better color presentation..your machine will work fine with both standards

P.S. PAL - 50 Hz, NTSC - 60 Hz, some games need the correct Colorsystem they are produced for, because the graphics will run slower or faster in the different colorsystem. this makes timing problems some times and there is also the difference between the resolutions. for example PAL 640x256 vs. NTSC 640x200 or 640x512 vs. 640x400. i hope this will help you a bit

Last edited by MacUserX; 30 June 2012 at 09:03.
 
Old 30 June 2012, 08:52   #4
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@dr.mushroom

Ordinarily the Amiga output is RGB (separate red, green and blue signals unlike composite or s-video) at about a 15kHz scan rate, which is a traditional video/tv signal. VGA is also RGB, but the scan rate is higher, about double, and therefore many/most modern monitors only accept 31kHz or higher. A scandoubler, in the most basic sense, doubles the scan rate so that these monitors can be used.

The top of the line Amiga-specific scandoubler available at the moment is the Indivision series, which is really more than just a scandoubler, it offers selectable output frequencies and has many other features. It also takes care of the PAL-NTSC issue, since all screen modes can be converted to VGA (or DVI) legal. Plenty of threads about the devices here on the forum if you search.
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Old 24 July 2012, 07:01   #5
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Thanks so much, everyone, for your help. I pulled out my 1702, and after some time spent reading my manuals, I was able to work everything out regarding resolution and such.

Unfortunately, (lol - my noob is showing) it didn't take me long to realize I have no way to connect the A1200 through the Luma/Chroma (unless there is a converter I'm not aware of) of my 1702, and because of the region issues, it can't display color through composite.

So, now that I am a little more familiar with the issue, I am interested in buying an RGB monitor. I know the 1084 will work, but I'm not exactly sure which others will.

There are a few "Amiga" monitors listed on eBay, but they don't specify the model or have pictures of the ports. Should I take the "Amiga" label as meaning it will work with my A1200?

Anyone in the USA know of any other, reputable websites from which I could order a monitor? I know European monitors have better display, but the shipping cost makes that a little impractical for my needs.

Again, any input is very appreciated.
 
Old 25 July 2012, 09:07   #6
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I would just look for a Commodore-Amiga RGB monitor. (1080, 1084, etc) Check Craigslist often, eBay or on here. Yes shipping will cost a lot but you can get a monitor for $20 or so. Shipping is usually $50-70 to CONUS. I would not ship a monitor from Europe.

Or get the Indivision and get a SVGA or LCD and call it good. Trying to use Composite from a PAL machine will not give you color on a NTSC composite monitor.
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Old 27 July 2012, 15:54   #7
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@dr.mushroom: If you're going to look for a 1084 monitor, I *HIGHLY* recommend picking up one of the Philips-made 1084 or 1084S's. Why? When you kick your 1200 back and forth from PAL to NTSC, the monitor automatically adjusts itself and displays correctly in both frequencies. The Daewoo-made 1084 and 1084S's do not do this, so each time you change modes, you have to reach in the back and with the adjustment knobs change the vertical position and height.

@MacUserX: The PAL/NTSC function in the boot menu of Kickstart 3+ is about the most useless thing I've ever tried to use. I have a PAL A500 and an NTSC A3000D. On the A500, if I go into the boot menu and switch it to NTSC and then tell it to boot normally, it immediately kicks back to PAL after leaving the menu. On the A3000D, it's the same deal, but opposite modes. I use Degrader on my A500 and that works 99% of the time, but doesn't on my A3000, and not sure why.
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Old 03 August 2012, 22:22   #8
dr.mushroom
 
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Thanks for the info on the 1084(S). I would ultimately like to come across one of those.

Here's an update: I did come across a 1902A locally for a low price, and being that it's RGB, I bought it. It came with the DIN-8M - DE-9M cable, and I have a DE-9F - DB-25M converter.

So, here's my thought: Can I buy a DB-23F - DB-23F cable, break 2 of the 25 pins in the male end of the converter, and everything work fine?
 
Old 03 August 2012, 23:02   #9
desiv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brett71 View Post
@MacUserX: The PAL/NTSC function in the boot menu of Kickstart 3+ is about the most useless thing I've ever tried to use. I have a PAL A500 and an NTSC A3000D. On the A500, if I go into the boot menu and switch it to NTSC and then tell it to boot normally, it immediately kicks back to PAL after leaving the menu. .
Weird, being in the U.S., I use that pre-boot menu frequently to go into PAL mode and it works every time....

Anyway, there are also a few s-video adapters out there, but I don't think any are auto-detecting for PAL/NTSC. Amigamaniac's adapter has a switch for it.
Not sure if the 1702 supports both modes tho??
I'd guess not, but not sure..


Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.mushroom View Post
Here's an update: I did come across a 1902A locally for a low price, and being that it's RGB,
Are you sure...
I thought the 1902 was digital?? Not analog RGB..

--
Oh, did some quick googling and it looks like some of the earlier 1902's were analog. When CBM noticed people were buying these instead of the 1084, they apparently removed RGB.. Interesting..
--

desiv

Last edited by prowler; 04 August 2012 at 20:50. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged.
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Old 04 August 2012, 01:19   #10
LocalH
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Be careful with the Philips 1084 monitors, though - they have a nasty issue with cold solder joints on the flyback transformer. I've had 4 such monitors over the years. If you can fix it, or get it fixed, then they're great monitors.
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Old 04 August 2012, 03:59   #11
dr.mushroom
 
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Originally Posted by desiv View Post
Are you sure...
I thought the 1902 was digital?? Not analog RGB..

--
Oh, did some quick googling and it looks like some of the earlier 1902's were analog. When CBM noticed people were buying these instead of the 1084, they apparently removed RGB.. Interesting..
--

desiv
This has me a little concerned.. Admittedly I'm a bit of a virgin, and I'm just sort of learning as I go.

The 1902A would have been the later model, correct? Do you mean there might be variations amongst the As or between the As and the original?

Or are you saying it's analog - digital RGB that's the problem? I never even considered this possibility.. : S

--

So I've done some reading, and basically what I'm gathering is, no, the 1902A does not bring me closer to solving my PAL - NTSC problem.

Oh, well.

Last edited by dr.mushroom; 05 August 2012 at 06:29.
 
Old 29 December 2013, 05:30   #12
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I see this thread went dead some time ago, but I'm going to try and revive it since the subject is EXACTLY the same. I currently own a PAL A1200 and I live in the U.S.. I currently cannot figure a way to get color out of it.

I recently have conceded that neither my 1902 or 1902a. My 1902a has round video ports and the 1902 has a 9 pin RGB-I port and of course the composite only gives me B&W.

I'm wondering what the solution would be short of buying another monitor. I guess If I wanted to I could invest in the Indivision AGA mk2. I may not be opposed to doing either of those, I guess I just want to be sure the investment is sound.

So if I invest in an NTSC 1084 ($200 on ebay) will that solve my problem? Or could I simply by a PAL monitor and use a power converter? In typing this though, it seems the Indivision is the fool proof way to go and would give me the ability to use a modern monitor. I'm not that much of a 'purist' when it comes to my Amiga, so I'd be ok with that.

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Old 29 December 2013, 18:13   #13
quarkx
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Dr Mushroom,
Pardon the intrusion, but have you looked at my Online store?
I am in Canada and my prices include shipping to the USA. Right now, I have a 1080, a 2080 and a 1492 Monitor for sale.
all include the proper connection cables for them.
http://store.amigalounge.com/g13.html
although there is only 1 listed, I have 3 1080's in stock. The store is shutting down midnight Dec.31 though.
I find no problems booting into NTSC mode on my PAL A1200, you can see a video here of it on the 1492 Monitor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayZQX...rzU1KQ&index=2
and here it is on the 2080 monitor
http://youtu.be/X7YmYv_pgqU
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Old 03 January 2014, 14:48   #14
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Forget about buying a crappy, overpriced Commodore monitor. Get yourself a nice Trinitron for $10 and invest in an RGB SCART to Component converter. I use the Cypress CSY-2100 and the picture is absolutely fantastic.
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Old 24 January 2014, 17:25   #15
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Hello, everyone.
I have a PAL A1200. Would a NTSC 1084S-D monitor work with it through RGB? (I know composite would not).
TjLaZer mentioned he "would just look for a Commodore-Amiga RGB monitor. (1080, 1084, etc)" Does it mean you don't need to care about the NTSC/PAL issue as long as you use RGB?
Thank you.

Last edited by juanmoreira; 24 January 2014 at 18:34.
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Old 24 January 2014, 19:58   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmoreira View Post
Hello, everyone.
I have a PAL A1200. Would a NTSC 1084S-D monitor work with it through RGB? (I know composite would not).
TjLaZer mentioned he "would just look for a Commodore-Amiga RGB monitor. (1080, 1084, etc)" Does it mean you don't need to care about the NTSC/PAL issue as long as you use RGB?
Thank you.
Yes, that is mostly correct. Most, if not all, Commodore 108x monitors have controls to adjust the height and the distance of the picture to fit PAL resolution (to at least 90%) even on NTSC models.
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Old 24 January 2014, 21:53   #17
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Yes, that is mostly correct. Most, if not all, Commodore 108x monitors have controls to adjust the height and the distance of the picture to fit PAL resolution (to at least 90%) even on NTSC models.
Thank you, alenppc. That sounds good. However, what you get is a stretched 600x200 (NTSC) resolution, instead of the regular 600x256 resolution from the PAL Amiga, right? Or do you get the full 600x256 resolution even in a NTSC monitor model? (of course, using RGB)
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Old 24 January 2014, 22:08   #18
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Originally Posted by juanmoreira View Post
Thank you, alenppc. That sounds good. However, what you get is a stretched 600x200 (NTSC) resolution, instead of the regular 600x256 resolution from the PAL Amiga, right? Or do you get the full 600x256 resolution even in a NTSC monitor model? (of course, using RGB)

If you want 100% correct game displays for all Amiga games and apps then the best thing for you is a multi region TV that will allow all games to work correctly (PAL/NTSC). Seeing as you are in the US the prices for you are good seeing as shipping costs would be low

start your search here...

http://www.220-electronics.com/multi-system-tv.html


if you can, find one with scart input and buy a scart cable from Amigakit. even a TV with Svideo input is good.

Don't mess around with the cheap ebay display adapters, they don't come close.
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Old 24 January 2014, 22:20   #19
alenppc
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I used to own a 1084S monitor that could be stretched to display the full 640x256 (or 640x512) resolution; simply adjust the relevant control. I also still own an older 1080 monitor (dated january 1986!) which can be adjusted to display about 90% of the PAL resolution, to perhaps 640x240 (or 640x480 approx). A very small part on the bottom is cut off but that's rarely a problem.

Or you can get a multisystem TV as kipper says.

I have discovered that the RCA RLED2445A model sold by Wal-Mart supports PAL over composite (but the picture quality over composite isn't great of course).
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Old 24 January 2014, 22:39   #20
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Here's the thing… I'm not in the U.S. right now. But I bought this super nice but expensive NTSC 1084S-D simply because it looks awesome as a collector's item:
http://tinyurl.com/ljaz7wy
At the same time, I'd like to see my PAL Amiga picture as good as possible on that monitor. I'll travel to the U.S. to pick it up. But if it's not good enough, then I'm planning on reselling it (but without having a chance to test it with my PAL Amiga, since I can't bring the computer with me to the U.S.)
What do you guys think? Would you keep that monitor? Do you think it would deliver a good picture for a PAL Amiga?

Last edited by juanmoreira; 24 January 2014 at 23:27.
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