EmuTOS for Amiga

[Boo Boo]

Cool looks intresting can it do Low and Med RES ?

[BlankVector]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Cool looks intresting

Thanks

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

can it do Low and Med RES ?

Unfortunately no, since the ST uses interlaced bitplanes while the Amiga Playfield does not support that. See discussion above.

But maybe one day someone will write an fVDI driver to support Amiga video modes for clean color GEM applications...

[Boo Boo]

Originally Posted by BlankVector

Thanks


Unfortunately no, since the ST uses interlaced bitplanes while the Amiga Playfield does not support that. See discussion above.

But maybe one day someone will write an fVDI driver to support Amiga video modes for clean color GEM applications...

Thank you for your reply I only ask because some games like sundog have run on existing ST/TOS emulators for Amiga unforchantly they only run on 68000.

I don't know how graphics are handled with these existing Emulators but ive tended to think of these as more virtual machines then emulators as I thought very little emulation was taking place

[Ratte]

Originally Posted by BlankVector

Exactly! When I saw the KickTOS video 2 years ago, I realized that the ST-High video mode (only 1 bitplane) was compatible with the Amiga Playfield hardware. So I thought that EmuTOS should work... and it does

Originally Posted by BlankVector

Also, the keyboard may not work correctly because I didn't send the acknowledges (not required by WinUAE).

cia-setup made me mad on kicktos, many stuff to init, thats normaly done by the amiga-kickstart

Originally Posted by BlankVector

Don't search any good reason for the existence of EmuTOS for Amiga. I did it because it's cool, no more

same for kicktos

Originally Posted by BlankVector

Yes, floppy support is really a key missing feature.

the base for kicktos is st4amiga (aminet) it supports diskdrives

Originally Posted by BlankVector

About Color video modes, unfortunately I'm not sure if they could work (without additional drivers, of course). The Atari hardware uses interlaced bitplanes every 16 pixels, and I'm not sure that the Amiga Playfield hardware is able to handle that

same here, st4amiga has a "hidden" colorsupport for lowres and medres ... changing some bytes makes them alive (simcity worked on kicktos)

the kickstart must be checksumed and you need the interruptvectortable at the end (thanks toni for the hint in 2008).

agnus/ntsc-setting-code for better 640x400 @ 60hz on real hw is allways nice


i like to play on kicktos/emutos (again), but i am out of time .. but never say never

[BlankVector]

Originally Posted by Ratte

cia-setup made me mad on kicktos, many stuff to init

Fortunately, thanks to the very nice Commodore hardware documentation, I had no trouble there

Originally Posted by Ratte

st4amiga has a "hidden" colorsupport for lowres and medres ... changing some bytes makes them alive (simcity worked on kicktos)

I wonder how it can work... Probably slow software blitting.
IIRC SimCity uses a GEM UI, unlike most other games.

Originally Posted by Ratte

the kickstart must be checksumed

I did't do that, and it works fine.
Which component is going to check that checksum?
However, maybe that lack of checksum in EmuTOS could explain some trouble with re-kicking. Also the EmuTOS ROM is only 256 kB, that may cause trouble to some software.

Originally Posted by Ratte

and you need the interruptvectortable at the end (thanks toni for the hint in 2008).

That made me mad
Thanks again to Toni for the hint, too.

[Ratte]

256KB is no problem ($fc0000-$ffffff)
checksum is required for softkicking amigas (A1000 or A3000)
it is checked by the bootrom (or kick1.4 on a3000)

[BlankVector]

About the current EmuTOS version without checksum:
- twiggy reported that it worked on A600 with ACAtune
- gibs reported that it didn't work with BlizKick (unknown hardware)

So it looks like ACAtune does not check the checksum, while it is mandatory with other tools/bootroms. I will add that checksum in next EmuTOS versions.

[gibs]

@BlankVector

Hardware is Blizzard 1260

There is a floppy disk called reckick (that I don't have anymore) which was able to do a soft reckick in 1.3 from a 2.0 kickstart. So maybe we can try with this tool if someone can post the ADF in the zone ?

Acatune works with Acaxxxx boards
Blizkick works with Blizzard boards

There are some reckick tools that doesn't need specific hardware to work.

[Toni Wilen]

Hang/crash during booting if "high end" Amiga or 68040+ CPU usually means some hardware initialization is wrong or missing.

[BlankVector]

EmuTOS is supposed to work fine with any 680x0 CPU.

About hardware initialization, of course maybe something is missing, I only made tests with WinUAE and basic settings.

About Blizzard 1260, it is still unclear if the problem was with the re-kick tool (lack of checksum...) or EmuTOS itself.

[Toni Wilen]

UAE won't really emulate any cache related and other similar 68040+ problems.

But the ROM should have 0x1111 as first word (=256k ROM) and then it should have 0x4ef9 (JMP opcode) and then absolute jump address. Some soft kickers probably assume this format. (All official Commodore ROMs have this format)

[BlankVector]

For test purposes, I've built a custom EmuTOS as an extended ROM running at 0x00f0000. It is successfully bootstrapped by a standard Kickstart 1.3

As far as I understand, such extended ROM exists only on CDTV/CD32, am I right?
I can't see any practical usage of such EmuTOS as extended ROM, so I will not ship it with official EmuTOS binaries.

Originally Posted by Toni Wilen

But the ROM should have 0x1111 as first word (=256k ROM) and then it should have 0x4ef9 (JMP opcode) and then absolute jump address. Some soft kickers probably assume this format. (All official Commodore ROMs have this format)

Indeed, at least the Kickstart 1.3 bootstrap code for extended ROMs requires that format. I had to respect it for the above hack to work. So I will respect that format in next EmuTOS builds.

[gibs]

Post the link

[BlankVector]

New snapshot: EmuTOS CVS-20120707
- Fixed ROM header with 0x1111, 0x4ef9
- Fixed ROM checksum
- Fixed 68060 detection on WinUAE
- Quick and dirty fix to avoid infinite loop on WinUAE A1000 during IDE detection
- Included EmuTOS as an Amiga 1000 kickdisk

This new snapshot may have better success with softkickers.
I still have not implemented the keyboard acknowledge yet, so the keyboard will work only with WinUAE 2.3.3 and older.

[gibs]

Hi BV,
This one is Kickable (unlike the previous one) by Blizkick but then, I got a red screen.

[BlankVector]

About emutos-kickdisk.adf, it is similar to the Amiga 1000 kickstart floppy. So it is a very special floppy, probably only usable to startup an Amiga 1000, nothing more. It works fine on WinUAE.

Originally Posted by gibs

This one is Kickable (unlike the previous one) by Blizkick

Good, there is progress

Originally Posted by gibs

but then, I got a red screen.

I don't know where this red screen comes from
The new EmuTOS ROM has correct header and cheksum.
The only background set by EmuTOS is white, so that red background comes from elsewhere. And since EmuTOS (as kickstart replacement) is supposed to be the only software in memory, it looks like there is still mysterious software behind the scenes

Maybe Blizkick does not like 256 kB ROMs?
Are you able to softkick the Kickstart 1.3 with it?

Are the sources of Blizkick available somewhere, or the precise specs of what is required to make a ROM kickable with it?

[gibs]

Yes, of course I can softkick the KS1.3

[BlankVector]

It seems that in all official Kickstarts, there is a reset instruction at offset 0xd0, and the ROM entry point is just after at offset 0xd2.

The attached EmuTOS binary respects that format.
gibs, could you please tell me if that one works better for you?

[gibs]

BlankVector,

PERFECT !!!

Now waiting for the floppy support

[BlankVector]

Aha, great
Now that bootstrap problems have been solved, serious things can occur.
Next step will be to fix the keyboard with correct acknowledges.

[gibs]

Yes the keyboard isn't working on emucon.
Here is a video of the real stuff : http://youtu.be/qMG2BWEq9Kw

[BlankVector]

New snapshot: EmuTOS CVS-20120708
- Fixed entry point address for BlizKick compatibility

The binary is the same as the previous one tested by gibs.

Originally Posted by gibs

Here is a video of the real stuff : http://youtu.be/qMG2BWEq9Kw

Excellent
Many thanks for sharing your experience.

[xc8]

Very nice work... I just tested it on the minimig core of the c-one, boots ok.

[ImmortalA1000]

Originally Posted by frank_b

TOS is the bios and console mode part of the OS and GEM is the gui.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_TOS

There is an emu tos build for the Falcon too.

I'm sure TOS is straight CP/M 68k (the commands are identical IIRC) and GEM the GUI just sits on top like MSDOS 6+WINDOWS 3.1. Kickstart and Workbench are not so cut and dry though, for example Windows doesn't use the same task scheduler or kernal as DOS it's pretty much a loader but doesn't Kickstart contain ALL the low level functionality of Amiga OS within the ROM e.g. time sliced round robin multitasking system AND what the BIOS on a PC does too?

Anyway the essential parts of Amiga's OS from 0.9 to 3.0 are basically bespoke versions of TriPos 68k (written by Dr Tim King of Metacomco at Cambridge University UK). Atari could quite easily have acquired TriPos for the ST range too. The Line A routines on GEM are god awful slow for graphical updates, they make Microsoft Windows source code look acceptable

[gibs]

Lmao

[Jope]

Originally Posted by ImmortalA1000

doesn't Kickstart contain ALL the low level functionality of Amiga OS within the ROM e.g. time sliced round robin multitasking system AND what the BIOS on a PC does too?

Not entirely accurate, as there is no BIOS. There is only AmigaOS. The OS is always running in an Amiga mere seconds after you flip the power switch.

It's as if a Windows 7 equipped PC booted directly into the WinNT kernel from a ROM chip with some necessary DLLs + drivers included in that same ROM image and then loaded the rest off disk.

[amiman99]

Tested on my NTSC A1000 and boots to desktop, very nice. Keep up the good work.
Like everyone says, keyboard and floppy drive support will be appreciated.

[BlankVector]

Originally Posted by xc8

Very nice work... I just tested it on the minimig core of the c-one, boots ok.

Excellent, TOS programs running on a TOS-compatible operating system running on Amiga-compatible FPGA core running on foreign hardware

Originally Posted by amiman99

Tested on my NTSC A1000 and boots to desktop, very nice. Keep up the good work.

Excellent
Did you use the emutos-kickdisk.adf floppy, or some softkick tool?

Originally Posted by amiman99

Like everyone says, keyboard and floppy drive support will be appreciated.

I've already added a few things. I plan to publish a new snapshot soon.

[amiman99]

I used the emutos-kickdisk.adf file made on A1200, then boot like a kickstart. When doing soft reset with CTR A A it reboot to desktop right away.
This reminds me a video I have seen on youtube called KickTOS using original TOS roms http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4ta4OYhsEY
and it looks like they got the floppy to work.

[BlankVector]

Originally Posted by amiman99

I used the emutos-kickdisk.adf file made on A1200, then boot like a kickstart. When doing soft reset with CTR A A it reboot to desktop right away.

I applause, it works exactly as it was supposed to
And many thanks to Toni for WinUAE, which allowed me to accurately debug that stuff.

Originally Posted by amiman99

This reminds me a video I have seen on youtube called KickTOS using original TOS roms http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4ta4OYhsEY

As I already told, this was that KickTOS video which gave me the idea do do the same with EmuTOS - but without any emulation, just clean implementation

Originally Posted by amiman99

and it looks like they got the floppy to work.

It will also work on EmuTOS, it is just a matter of time.
IDE is already supported on A600/A1200 (at least on WinUAE).

[amiman99]

Originally Posted by twiggy

I have a MIDI device. I don't suppose you'd know which MIDI software packages are system friendly? Cubase?

There are 2 MIDI sw that I have and can try when the floppy support is working. I have Notator v3.0 and Master Tracks Pro v3.6.
I think both of them work in Hi res screens.

[Boo Boo]

Any chance of SKICK support its a SoftKicker that should work on most Amiga's kick 2.x+
Are there any other SoftKickers suitable?

http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/skick346

[BlankVector]

Originally Posted by amiman99

I have Notator v3.0

You mean that one?

[BlankVector]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Any chance of SKICK support its a SoftKicker that should work on most Amiga's kick 2.x+

Looking at the description: "It does relocation and/or patches of kickstart images.", so this will not work with EmuTOS, except if someone writes such patches, which is a nonsense.

On the other side, on Atari machines EmuTOS (which is very versatile) is able to run in RAM (instead of ROM) when started from a boot floppy or from the hard disk. It will work equally well on Amiga as soon as someone writes a small loader from AmigaOS

[Boo Boo]

Shame love to try it on my Amigas

[BlankVector]

New snapshot: EmuTOS CVS-20120719

- Added keyboard acknowledges. Now the keyboard works fine with WinUAE >= 2.4.0, I hope it will also work on real hardware. It can be easily tested with File > Execute EmuCON.

- Added support for battery backed-up real time clock. Now the EmuTOS welcome screen should display the real boot date and time. If there is no hardware clock, the build date is displayed instead, with 00:00:00 hour.

- Added support for Zorro II/III Fast RAM, Slow RAM and A3000/A4000 motherboard RAM. To achieve that I have imported the AROS AutoConfig routines into EmuTOS, it works like a charm. Now the EmuTOS welcome screen should display the right amount of FastRAM (while ST-RAM means Chip RAM).

- Added Shutdown support for WinUAE. From the desktop, File > Shutdown now exits WinUAE.

- Added debug output support for the WinUAE log. However standard EmuTOS versions does not produce much debug output.

Note that the WinUAE specific features requires the UAE Boot ROM, for example by checking uaeserial.device in the IO ports host settings.

[amiman99]

Originally Posted by BlankVector

You mean that one?

Looks familiar.

BTW, I tried the new snapshot on real A1000 and the keyboard works!

Can I pause the EmuTOS startup screen so I can read all the info?

[BlankVector]

Originally Posted by amiman99

BTW, I tried the new snapshot on real A1000 and the keyboard works!

Excellent, getting things working on real hardware is always a challenge

Originally Posted by amiman99

Can I pause the EmuTOS startup screen so I can read all the info?

Sure. Just keep one of the Shift keys pressed at the EmuTOS welcome screen. It will stay until you release the key.

[Dwyloc]

@BlankVector
I can also confirm that it boot and has working keyboard support on my Minimig Amiga A500/A600 FPGA Amiga clone.

I have not tested the A600 IDE support using the Minimigs hardfile emulation as I don't really have the Atari know how to setup a harddisk so I will have to leave that to someone else to test.

So far things are looking good, would it be possible to have support for an non interlaced 2 black and white screen mode as well as interlace is a bit tiring on the eyes.

[BlankVector]

Originally Posted by Dwyloc

I can also confirm that it boot and has working keyboard support on my Minimig Amiga A500/A600 FPGA Amiga clone.

Excellent

Originally Posted by Dwyloc

I have not tested the A600 IDE support using the Minimigs hardfile emulation as I don't really have the Atari know how to setup a harddisk so I will have to leave that to someone else to test.

Easy: EmuTOS has support for PC-formatted disks and FAT16 partitions. (up to 2 GB - the by-design limit). So you can use any image of a standard PC-formatted USB stick, SD-Card or watever. Important: you must use FAT16 partitions, FAT32 is not supported.

Originally Posted by Dwyloc

So far things are looking good, would it be possible to have support for an non interlaced 2 black and white screen mode as well as interlace is a bit tiring on the eyes.

Sure, I just need any 640x400 resolution with 1 plane. However, I'm really not familiar with Amiga hardware. If someone could write a proper initialization routine for such video mode, or at least point me to the relevant documentation, that would be big help.