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Old 11 June 2012, 10:23   #21
NovaCoder
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Hiya,

It's pretty easy, first grab BOOM from AmiNet then grab Feedoom WAD then download XDelusion's latest WAD and BEX files.

Finally change your BOOM icon's tooltypes like this:
deh1=AB3D.bex
file1=AB3D.wad

easy

Last edited by NovaCoder; 12 June 2012 at 01:41.
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Old 11 June 2012, 11:18   #22
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BEX file is no longer available...
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Old 11 June 2012, 16:35   #23
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Do you refer to this post http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=822606&postcount=10 when you can't download the BEX file?

That's because the link have been put twice after each other, just copy and paste in your webbrowser and cut out the last link, then press Enter and you should be able to download the archive.
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Old 11 June 2012, 21:51   #24
XDelusion
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Previous posts updated with the more up to date download link.

Sorry for the confusion.
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Old 12 June 2012, 01:09   #25
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Im not errorfree, but you have twice given us useless links in this thread, please correct the link in post #1. It's only give's us the frontpage to .

Last edited by ma693541; 12 June 2012 at 01:09. Reason: Typo.
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Old 12 June 2012, 02:31   #26
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Something's amiss. I'll have to get to a computer and take a look.
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Old 12 June 2012, 16:55   #27
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OK, try the new link at the top post.

There is a little bit of new stuff in it, but not much. I wasn't very motivated this week's end.
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Old 17 June 2012, 09:53   #28
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@XDelusion

Im a bit preoccupied with other stuff at the moment to delve right in, but I wouldnt mind doing some graphics stuff for now at least.
A few questions though:

Does the ab3d source archive contain the graphics to the weapons/hands at bottom of screen? I was going to rip them the hard way, but wont bother if those graphics are already available.
Also, how does the palette work for Doom in lower color modes? Is there specific palettes for different enemies/weapons/textures/etc., or a generic plaette? I dont want to revamp some graphics only to find the colors are all wrong.
I assume the size of the graphics for enemies decides what size they are onscreen? For example if enemies were redrawn, but slightly larger, is it possible to effectively use them as higher res textures, or would they simply appear larger in the games "world"?
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Old 17 June 2012, 10:33   #29
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@XDelusion

Have you got an example of a WAD file that will work with PrBOOM but not with 68k BOOM?
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Old 17 June 2012, 23:41   #30
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Fish: Yes the weapons are included within the source files, though I forget which package it was exactly that had them in there.

If you would like, I can upload all the graphic files from the game onto the web somewhere in BMP format.

Though my thoughts are on the weapons is that we would be better off re-creating them as they really do not look good at all. I was messing around with them last night and all I see is pixels, where as if you look at the DOOM weapons, Dark Forces, Duke 3D, etc. They look pretty polished.

I was going to release another demo with the new palette, but alas I ran into another road block. Sadly changing DOOM's palette is not something that is heavily documented, so I've had to spend hours trying things to work right, then when I think I'm all caught up and ready to map with my new resources in hand...

I discover something that looks like ass in software mode, then have to restart everything all over again. Sighhh....


Nova: I have been testing everything using the DOS and your Amiga port of BOOM. So far the most of the mapping tricks I have been using have all worked, the only areas I'm running into a road block thus far is the fact that classic BOOM (both the DOS version and yours) does not seem to support all of my BEX code. I.E. when you shoot the barrels, they only explode once as opposed to three times. Which means the new invisible barrels I created to give this triple explosion illusion, only seem to work in PrBOOM and Odamex thus far.

I intend to go back through and adjust the height of the invisible barrels, perhaps that will allow it to work with BOOM?

That aside, I was messing around and tried to create a room with a pool of water. Over the water there is a 3D bridge that the player can walk over and under.
When the player is under water, the color map changes to all blue, and the player slows down as if the friction of the water is holding him back.

Thus far this works and looks great in GL mode under PrBOOM Plus, but in BOOM I am getting some graphical garbage. I'll have a second look at it later then if I can't resolve the issue I can upload it and allow you to have a look.

It is not part of any of my current Alien Breed 3D maps, but it was an idea I was playing with to see if some of the more advanced AB3D maps will be doable in BOOM.
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Old 18 June 2012, 17:31   #31
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Some Amazing work here guys!

It has almost tempted me to make a DooM wad again!

ahhh those heady years of early 1999 - the race for total conversion... -=)
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Old 18 June 2012, 23:45   #32
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If you feel like you'd be handy in recreating any of the old AB3D maps, please feel free to chip in.

Right now I am at a road block with the palette again, so all work on the levels and what not has been put on hold until I can get past this issue. Needless to say this Palette issue has been going on two weeks now, and the subject is highly under-documented so I could certainly use all the help I can get to help further the progress of this project in other areas while I sort this out.


Mind you, if there are aspects of the mapping that are beyond you, such as some of the more advanced BOOM features needed to duplicate the look and feel of the original AB3D maps, then just leave those sections go and I'll come back and touch them up when I'm ready.

What I have been doing since I don't have a nifty AB3D to DOOM map conversion tool, is load up AB3D on an Amiga, then try to duplicate the maps with a map builder on another machine as I progress through it.



That said, thank you for the compliments!! I'm trying.
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Old 19 June 2012, 04:52   #33
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Noa: Do you think cDOOM's 3D floors could be worked into your project without taking a hit against system resources?

http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/CDoom

Without them, I will not be able to duplicate AB3D's showdowns on multi-tier flights of stairs. I can do 3D floors and room above room, but not multi-tier flights of stairs.

How freaking cool that an old Amiga game pulled such a thing off!
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Old 19 June 2012, 05:05   #34
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Hiya,

I'm not sure before I have a look at the code but it *may* be possible. I'm thinking that if I do a new port of BOOM with some enhanced features (eg from PrBoom) then I'll make it 040+ anyway as I don't have an 030 to test with anymore.

Do you have access to the right editing tools to create cDOOM's 3D floors?

I quite like the idea for updating 68k BOOM to support a really cool Alien Breed TC
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Old 19 June 2012, 05:54   #35
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Awesome!!!

I do have the tools!


ftp://ftp.fu-berlin.de/pc/games/idga...e/cdoobuil.zip


Also there is a little DOS based tool called Inkworks that should resolve my palette issues with software mode. Likewise I discovered the remains of an old tutorial for this tool. Some of the photos are missing, but I think I can follow.

Thank you for the support!
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Old 19 June 2012, 21:53   #36
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Hmmm.... I'm about to send an e-mail to the author of cDOOM. It would seem that you can see sprites through 3D floors...

Certainly something that needs to be resolved before this could be made use of.


EDIT: And it would seem that both of the author's e-mail addresses are dead... :/


Bummer, he had just released cDOOM 2.07 less than 2 or 3 months ago.


Edit: found a third e-mail address for him that did not bounce back!!


P.s. Palette issues figured out for the most part!!!

EDIT: Nope, after many hours, that e-mail bounced back too. How strange.

Last edited by XDelusion; 20 June 2012 at 03:14.
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Old 22 June 2012, 20:57   #37
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Without having luck at contacting the author of cDoom, I began to look for 3D floor alternatives in other source ports.

Contrary to my belief system, it turns out that zDoom supports true 3D floors as well! I do not have any idea as to how resource intensive they are, but I know they work and they work in software mode at that.

Now if such a thing could somehow be merged into the BOOM source, there then should be no reason why any AB3D map would not be perfectly duplicatable.

Here's an example, as you can see, contrary to the fake 3D floors I am forced to use ATM, the enemies will walk upon them, and you can do as many stories as you like! Orgasmic!!!!

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=o1Av9qz2_fA

Last edited by XDelusion; 23 June 2012 at 20:32.
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Old 23 June 2012, 20:30   #38
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Before I begin, I think that what I'm requesting here may take years to accomplish, and a while team at that. so with this in mind, I don't seriously expect you to produce a Dream Engine Nova, but here are some of my thoughts anyhow...


Last night I was talking on the ZDOOM forums and running a few experiments with home with DosBOX.

The discussion in the ZDOOM forums was which ports featured true 3D floors and which ones had the least bugs and were the most resource friendly.

Well needless to say, not many people knew how many resources the various approaches to 3D floors used, but they did know which ones pulled it off the best and what have you.

The tops suggestion was to attempt to pull the 3D floors from GzDOOM and go with them. Vavoom was also mentioned, and I "think" that that is where GzDOOM got it's floors.

Though GzDOOM also has an alternate system based upon what DOOM Legacy used which brings me to my experiences with DosBOX.

I fired up DosBOX in 386 mode and launched DOOM Legacy with a map I threw together using lots of 3D floors, both solid and translucent as well as a large pool of swimmable 3D Water.

To my utter surprise, DOOM Legacy handled perfectly fine without any slow down. That is if you keep it in a low resolution I.E. 320x200.

Having discovered this, I am wondering a few things that would benefit the AB3D project a lot more than standard BOOM.



First off, I have never really edited for standard BOOM before. The least I had ever messed with was PrBOOM, so I always assumed that MBF and BOOM had always been together, but I did not realize that the MBF features were missing until last night when I tried to create a bouncing grenade for BOOM.

I then thought,"well hey, if Legacy/ReBOOM can run on a low spec system, then why not see if I can talk someone into porting that?"

Sadly, I soon came to discover that Legacy does not have MBF features in it either, so while it would cover all the other bases to make the AB3D TC as true to form as possible, it still would not be possible to have bouncing grenades.


Then I got to thinking, why would it not be possible to port over PrBOOM entirely? Then when that was done, somehow, maybe with the use of dark magic or something, incorporate the 3D floors and 3D water from GzDOOM, Vavoom, or last case scenario, DOOM Legacy. After all it would then provide the DOOM community in general a new enhanced BOOM with new features, plus we'd eat it up here in the Amiga scene as well!!

The reason why I suggest Legacy last is because it's 3D floors have one little bug...

Once in a blue moon, if you have a sprite in a 3D room, you will be able to see it through the 3D walls that enclose it. It does not take away from the game play entirely, but it is a bug none the less which is why I suggest having a look at Vavoom or GzDOOM's methods which don't appear to have this bug.


Either way, even without the true 3D floors, like I said before, I would be able to come up with work arounds to duplicate all the AB3D maps as good as possible, but honestly, it would be so much cooler just to have those 3D floors!

=================

In closing I will list in order of importance, a few things that AB3D has and what DOOM source ports have the features need to pull them off.



3d Floors & 3D Transparent Water = DOOM Legacy, Vavoom, GzDOOM

Bouncing Grenades and Land mines. = MBF - PrBOOM

Ducking = GzDOOM

Drone (If memory serves correctly, these are in the 3D games or at least the old top down games right?) = MBF

Water Splash effect = Early DOOM Legacy

Walking Sound - ? Scripting

Pushers and Pullers screwed up in BOOM only work with MBF, not sure if they are totally needed though, unless we can't have 3D water, then
as you can see int he example in my demo, friction does not work quite right...

...unless I'm doing something wrong.


====

Some elaboration:








Some MBF Support. This was merged into BOOM with the advent of PrBOOM. I was not aware of this until now.

Specific features this would allow:

Bits = BOUNCES | DROPOFF | TOUCHY

This allows for bounching grenades and land mines to be configured in Dehacked or BEX. Without this we would be without a grenade launcher.

===========

Bits = FRIEND

OK, I admit, I don't NEED it, but with it the mapper could create friendlies out of enemies. The given exmaple with MBF is a German Shepherd, but it can be made to
look like what ever you want it to, I.E. the drones you collect in the original Alien Breed games, or comerade soldiers.

These of course would be features I would only introduce in the new difficulty setting, and in post level 16 levels so as to preserve the flow of the original game.

============

Things 140


This is the additional German Shepherd character. By default he is a friendly, but he can also be converted into an enemy which would then by default provide DOOM
with an additional enemy, or in other cases, allow for the game designer to create a friendly without sparing a DOOM enemy, or even allow for additional resources
editing the sprite frames in DEH or BEX.

Again the AB3D project is not dependant upon this feature, but it would be nice!!!


=============


Actually, all of MBF would be nice, or a port of PrBOOM for that matter.


==============================================


DOOM Legacy Features: I was not aware that Legacy introduced 3D Floors into it's early DOS incarnations. So I set DOSBox to slow 486 speeds, and created a map with a 3D floor,
then fired up legacy. To my surprise it ran well with no slow down! On top of that the enemies had no problem walking out onto the floor, plus you could not see them through
the floor as you can in cDOOM. PERFECT!!! I do not believe that this would hinder system resources at all!!!

Water Splash effect:

This a feature in early versions of Legacy, but was later removed. What it did was allow for a water splash effect when they player landed in water. This is something
that can be found in the original AB3D.

==============

Linedefs:

281 - Creates a solid 3D floor in all tagged sectors.
289 - Creates a solid 3D floor in all tagged sectors, does not cast a shadow.

Need I say more? This will not only allow for TRUE 3D Floors, and TRUE Room above Room, but also multi-tier buildings, stairs, or what ever your heart desires!!!

=============

Additional Linedefs:


300 - Creates a solid translucent 3D floor in all tagged sectors.
301 - Creates translucent 3D water in all tagged sectors.


300: Translucent 3D Floor.

301: Real 3D water that you can see through from above and below, JUST LIKE IN AB3D!!! Also this allows one to create climbable ladders.

NOTE: The only difference between this water and the water method I was using before is of course the fact that you can now see above and below it, but also you
can swim in it, which was not a feature in AB3D.


=============

Of course Legacy does feature a comlpex scripting system called Fraggle script that would be REALLY nice to have, though I can't think of anything AB3D dependant
that would need scripting, also I'm pretty sure that scripting would chew up resources in a heart beat. On the other hand if possible, it would allow one to
carry out some really impressive tricks on so many levels!
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Old 24 June 2012, 14:09   #39
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The one thing that stands out to me amongst all of this is just how impressive AB3d was for its day. Yes, its a little chunky graphically, but the engine itself seems pretty impressive for the time.
Im also surprised how little the gameplay has dated. While playing through over the last week or so I found myself just as addictied as I ever was. This is almost unique as far as original amiga fps games go, with the vast, vast majority of them dating very badly (same can be said of a lot of older pc fps games too, but the amiga ones were overwhelmingly mostly pretty bad).
Slight sidebar, but I did get a bit stuck at the end of level6, where you need to hit both switches that close quickly, then run to doorway.... seems the "trick" is that you can press the switches while your back is to them, making it easier to reach the other in time. This was the only part Ive encountered so far that I found frustrating.

Anyway, after being very limited I have a few hundred meg of internet data to play with now, so I'll download all the sources and graphics and whatnot and get started on a slight spruce up.
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Old 24 June 2012, 21:42   #40
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I never put much time in AB3D back in the day, all because of the small play screen, but after starting this project I needed to load it up and boy was I surprised!

Like you say, this game is very advanced for an old FPS, and does wonders on old Amiga hardware. On top of that the levels and gameplay are solid and much more fun than some of the Amogas other FPS' that remind me more of Wolfenstein than Doom.

I need to upload my current Palette pack and let you have a peek into it to see if you find my results satisfactory.
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