New Atari ST conversion coming to Amiga

[Galahad/FLT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WfBDEzmhdQ

[Whitesnake]

Looking good baby

I remember it on the ZX Spectrum back in the day. The black and white look gives it a nice atmosphere and feel.

[Galahad/FLT]

I've got it running through WHDLoad (using that to debug), and WINuae, but need to run it on a real Amiga to see whether or not the realtime screen conversion routine is quick enough.

[Whitesnake]

Will this conversion require a 020? Due to the Atari ST having a slightly faster 68k and also the YM Chip conversion? or can that speed/audio hardware difference be overcome through other means?

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Whitesnake

Will this conversion require a 020? Due to the Atari ST having a slightly faster 68k and also the YM Chip conversion? or can that speed/audio hardware difference be overcome through other means?

Technically, this 'should' work fine on 68000 once i've finished. I might need to optimize the ingame ST to Amiga screen conversion routine, but thats only because my routine is doing the entire screen, but as you can see, the ST screen only changes the stuff in the centre and the small bits at the bottom, so processor time can be saved there for a start.

YM conversion i've been told can be quite painless for Amiga, simply redirecting the YM calls to the correct Amiga registers should get it up and running, and doing it on an interrupt, I can't envisage it getting too heavy.

Still got to do the conversion for controls, so once I have the controls done, then i'll worry about sound. Its not much of a tune, but it would be good to have it included, because I don't think i've got enough memory left for an Amiga module, so the ST music will have to suffice.

[Adropac2]

Blimey another one, great news this and very much appreciated. Looking forward to playing it. Enjoyed the game back then and so it's very cool to see it on Amiga

Is there realistically any chance Oids could make it onto Amiga one day or is that a trickier job?

[1time]

Thank you Galahad..

[jimmy2x2x]

Great news!

please forgive my ignorance, but what other games have been converted?

[s2325]

Joust, Super Sprint, Gauntlet

[lilalurl]

Originally Posted by s2325

Joust, Super Sprint, Gauntlet

Download links available at the end of this post:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=808731#post808731

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Adropac2

Blimey another one, great news this and very much appreciated. Looking forward to playing it. Enjoyed the game back then and so it's very cool to see it on Amiga

Is there realistically any chance Oids could make it onto Amiga one day or is that a trickier job?

Oids is trickier simply because it was written in Forth I think, which will likely make the code a little obfuscated, and I think its very TOS system reliant.

But it also doesn't do any fancy Timer copper effects either so, its certainly one to look at for the future as it and Sundog are two of the ST games that people most wanted back in the day.

[Boo Boo]

Nice one can't wait to try it

How come and I'm not having a dig when stuff like Sundog is run through the TOS emulators there full speed on 68000 although no sound.

With all these conversions I still like to see a good TOS emulator compatible on all procesors maybe even under Whdload like we have the kickemu,

Anyways great work

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

Nice one can't wait to try it

How come and I'm not having a dig when stuff like Sundog is run through the TOS emulators there full speed on 68000 although no sound.

With all these conversions I still like to see a good TOS emulator compatible on all procesors maybe even under Whdload like we have the kickemu,

Anyways great work

It could be that the game uses TOS for everything, except sound processing which is directly accessed by the hardware.

[meynaf]

I wish you success, as it would lower the pressure on my shoulders for other games porting. But why did you open a thread before having at least a playable version ? Why did you give a youtube link instead of a link to the whdload stuff you spoke about ?

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by meynaf

I wish you success, as it would lower the pressure on my shoulders for other games porting. But why did you open a thread before having at least a playable version ? Why did you give a youtube link instead of a link to the whdload stuff you spoke about ?

Why do I need to do it the way you say? I feel its better to show that results are present, talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words!

I gave a Youtube link because I have no intention of making the WHDLoad version the only version, in fact i'm only using WHDLoad as a development tool to quicker develop the Amiga version, once I have the controls sorted and the YM emulation sorted, I can then master a proper 512K ADF version so that EVERYONE can play it, not just WHDLoad people.

This is the way I want to do it, respect that and please try not to sound so combative as you currently are, its not helpful.

It clearly states its a WIP (Work in Progress)... why not show that actually happening?

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

It clearly states its a WIP (Work in Progress)... why not show that actually happening?

Some WIP remain WIP all their life, until they just die out because the project got abandoned.

But time will tell. YM emulation is perhaps not as easy as you think, for example.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Some WIP remain WIP all their life, until they just die out because the project got abandoned.

But time will tell. YM emulation is perhaps not as easy as you think, for example.

But better a live WIP that can be seen rather than someone saying they are doing something with no tangible results

And maybe YM emulation won't be as easy as I think, but thats the fun of doing the work, if it was easy, all these games would have been converted years ago

[s2325]

Could you tell me reason of that random blur? Why it wasn't recorded with WinUAE but with some external application?

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by s2325

Could you tell me reason of that random blur? Why it wasn't recorded with WinUAE but with some external application?

It was recorded with WinUAE

The actual game doesn't have that blur or any screen tearing. Just crap encoding unfortunately.

[Adropac2]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Oids is trickier simply because it was written in Forth I think, which will likely make the code a little obfuscated, and I think its very TOS system reliant.

But it also doesn't do any fancy Timer copper effects either so, its certainly one to look at for the future as it and Sundog are two of the ST games that people most wanted back in the day.

I see then thanks for that. Yes a lot of happy folk if anyone could manage this job, but for now this is fantastic

[meynaf]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

But better a live WIP that can be seen rather than someone saying they are doing something with no tangible results

Certainly, but even better is a playable game

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

And maybe YM emulation won't be as easy as I think, but thats the fun of doing the work, if it was easy, all these games would have been converted years ago

Anyway if you need help, don't hesitate.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by meynaf

Certainly, but even better is a playable game


Anyway if you need help, don't hesitate.

It will only be playable once I sort out the ST mouse packet information to convert to Amiga, once thats done, then at least it can be played

[kamelito]

Thanks for working on that port.
Kamel

[tomcat666]

Wow, one of my favorite 80s games finally coming to Amiga Thank you Galahad !

Hope this trend keeps up...

[lesta_smsc]

This looks like a good game! A bit like Flight of the Amazon Queen?! Keep up the good work Galahad/FLT!

[Akira]

I love these new Atari ST conversions, I think it's great to have these on the Amiga.

But I can't help to notice: remember the days when we complained about Atari ST shovelware? Now we're excited about it

What are the chances of taking these and upgrading them to meet Amiga standards?

[Mequa]

Originally Posted by Akira

But I can't help to notice: remember the days when we complained about Atari ST shovelware? Now we're excited about it

Hah!

I'm wondering if a port of Robotron: 2084 would be feasible? It would be nice to have a native Amiga port of the game which inspired Llamatron.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Akira

I love these new Atari ST conversions, I think it's great to have these on the Amiga.

But I can't help to notice: remember the days when we complained about Atari ST shovelware? Now we're excited about it

What are the chances of taking these and upgrading them to meet Amiga standards?

Theres every possibility of doing that, but personally, i'm more keen on getting them running, and then once thats been done, maybe releasing a more Amigafied version.

Bearing in mind though that I can update the titlescreen to the box image, and maybe get someone to do a better sounding module for the music, and maybe improve the ingame samples, but the main game graphics will still be the same.

[AmigaFriend]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

YM conversion i've been told can be quite painless for Amiga, simply redirecting the YM calls to the correct Amiga registers should get it up and running, and doing it on an interrupt, I can't envisage it getting too heavy.

You mean you're considering making/using a YM sound engine emulation on the Amiga version?

...and great job Galahad!

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by xpect

You mean you're considering making/using a YM sound engine emulation on the Amiga version?

...and great job Galahad!

Yes, its what Meynaf did for his Atari conversions. I'd obviously prefer using a module, but, at the moment, virtually all of the 512k of chip ram is used up.

[Whitesnake]

I think from a purists stand point it is good to have a straight 1:1 port of the Atari ST original then an upgraded version later.

Personally the YM chip sound doesn't bother me, I quite like the sound of it in many cases, and on different hardware.

I think International Karate on the Atari ST is a good use case for YM chip sound.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Whitesnake

I think from a purists stand point it is good to have a straight 1:1 port of the Atari ST original then an upgraded version later.

Personally the YM chip sound doesn't bother me, I quite like the sound of it in many cases, and on different hardware.

I think International Karate on the Atari ST is a good use case for YM chip sound.

Weird thing is, the Spectrum 128 version of Where Time Stood Still sounds better!

[chiark]

This is pretty damn cool. Just a query: is the whdload slave also doing the necessary emulation?

[tomcat666]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Weird thing is, the Spectrum 128 version of Where Time Stood Still sounds better!

Exactly... or maybe I am just more used to it since I played the game to death on my +2 128k

Can't wait for the Amiga version though . Hopefully someone can make a decent .MOD conversion of the tune... But even the YM emulation one will do.

[Whitesnake]

Very similar PSG's I'd mostly put it down to a better composer if anything.

[Akira]

How small does the MOD need to be for it to be included on the game, Galahad?

[vulture]

thx Galahad, a really great game!

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by Akira

How small does the MOD need to be for it to be included on the game, Galahad?

Let me get back to you mate, I might yet make it 1meg only, which then frees up a lot of chip ram, as I can store all the ST graphics in fast ram and just have the Amiga specific stuff and program code in chip ram.

At the moment, 5k would probably be an over exaggeration of how much room is left!

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by chiark

This is pretty damn cool. Just a query: is the whdload slave also doing the necessary emulation?

No.

WHDLoad is a useful tool for quick development. If there are any accesses to Atari ST registers I haven't picked up on, if anything tries to access one through an address register, WHDLoad exits immediately and tells me.

Quicker way of debugging, loading the game from hard drive instead of floppy.

Once I have it fully working using WHDLoad, then I'll be able to quickly master a floppy version, and then adapt the WHDLoad version to support that version so everyone starts off with the same version, and thus bug reports become meaningful.

[AmigaFriend]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

Weird thing is, the Spectrum 128 version of Where Time Stood Still sounds better!

One thing that can do this is if one tune was developed say in the Spectrum 128 with a AY-3-8910 and then simply transplanted to the ST that uses a YM2149. Also the sound chip frequencies are also different 2Mhz on the ST, 1.77Mhz on the Spectrum, and this would also alter significantly envelope times and tuning.

One good example is the Xenon tune: it sounds ok in the ST, slight off on the Spectrum but sounding better, and absolute shit in the CPC (which has the AY clocked at 1Mhz).

Also, in my opinion, the AY has a much better sound compared to the YM.