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Old 21 April 2012, 17:48   #61
rsn8887
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Interesting side note:
In "low latency vsync" and "no vsync", the mouse pointer does not stay on same point in title bar when dragging the wb screen. In first case it is jumpy, in second case it is smooth but still moves a bit different than screen.

However, when using "legacy vsync" the pointer DOES stay on same pixel in title bar and drags perfectly together with the screen when moving up down. AFAIK that is how the real amiga behaved.
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Old 21 April 2012, 17:49   #62
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsn8887 View Post
Horizontal scrolling is perfectly smooth in any case. I see this jerky motion effect only with mouse pointer (and space ship in Hyperdrive but might not be related).

Selected buffer modes (no double triple) make no difference. Switching low latency vsync off makes mouse pointer smooth again.
Hmm... This is really strange. Does it move smoothly if you use keyboard to move mouse (Gameports panel, select some keyboard layout, switch type to "mouse" from "default").
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Old 21 April 2012, 17:59   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Hmm... This is really strange. Does it move smoothly if you use keyboard to move mouse (Gameports panel, select some keyboard layout, switch type to "mouse" from "default").
Same when using keyboard (but easier to see this way). B6 CPU 0% perfectly smooth. b6 CPU -10% jerky. b9 jerky regardless of CPU %

Please also see above (I edited post to include logs).
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Old 21 April 2012, 18:21   #64
Toni Wilen
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Does it also happen if you start from scratch? Start from (for example) A1200 quickstart, set fastest possible and vsync.

There must be some hidden variable..
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Old 21 April 2012, 18:39   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Does it also happen if you start from scratch? Start from (for example) A1200 quickstart, set fastest possible and vsync.

There must be some hidden variable..
It also happens when I start from scratch:

Started with A1200 quickstart, chose Workbench 3.0 disk, pressed "set configuration". Then Display - Fullscreen, 100 Hz PAL, no buffering (but doesn't matter), low latency vsync, and changed game port one to keyboard with mouse type.

Did the above both for B6 and B9.

Same behaviour. B6 not stuttering, B9 pointer stuttering. Resulting configs (I saved them afterwards) and logs attached.

Actually buffering does seem to change stutter frequency (more stutter at no buffer than triple buffer can be seen only using keyboard mouse), but doesn't make it go away.

EDIT: Tried 60 Hz too, same behaviour.
Attached Files
File Type: zip pointertest_configsandlogs.zip (17.5 KB, 42 views)

Last edited by rsn8887; 21 April 2012 at 18:49.
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Old 21 April 2012, 18:47   #66
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsn8887 View Post
Started with A1200 quickstart, chose Workbench 3.0 disk, pressed "set configuration". Then Display - Fullscreen, 100 Hz PAL, no buffering (but doesn't matter), low latency vsync, and changed game port one to keyboard with mouse type.
Same also in 50Hz and 60Hz modes? (Still can't see anything wrong in 60Hz or 100Hz low latency vsync modes and it does make no sense have perfectly smooth scrolling but mouse sprite working badly..)

Same also in JIT mode? There has to be some option that changes the behavior. There just has to be..

EDIT: what about sound panel automatic switching? Does it work if you untick it?

EDIT2: I can duplicate it (FPS jumping wildly) if sound is disabled. Finally something..

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 21 April 2012 at 19:25.
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Old 21 April 2012, 19:45   #67
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Yes same in JIT mode. I forgot I was using portaudio, not directsound. No change when switching sound system or automatic switching. Same problem in 60 Hz. My monitor doesn't support 50 Hz

Interesting: In b9, if I go to "approximate A1200 speed" where mouse pointer is smooth, I can then adjust the CPU speed anywhere, even up to the max of +500%and mouse pointer stays smooth. But as soon as I select "Fastest possible" however, mouse pointer starts to stutter and doesn't stop even if I go down in CPU % then...
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Old 21 April 2012, 20:03   #68
Toni Wilen
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Does http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.zip work better? At least it fixes my no-sound + non-0% CPU FPS issue.
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Old 21 April 2012, 21:46   #69
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FPS issue for CPU <0% fixed, but mouse pointer still jerky. Now I was able to test <0% CPU speed.

Result: Mouse pointer becomes smooth if I reduce CPU speed from max (0%) to -70% or lower (this corresponds to approx 34% CPU LED number in emulation). This is in fastest possible mode. In "approximate A1200 speed" it is still always smooth (and the fastest setting of 500% corresponds to approx 40% CPU LED number). Tested with Quickstart A1200 as before.

EDIT: It still stutters every couple seconds at -70%, but at -80% it is perfectly smooth (~30% CPU LED).
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Old 22 April 2012, 00:13   #70
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Your beta files became at smaller sizes, as the non-beta fixes.
At least be sure your final releases is CPU-optimized.
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Old 22 April 2012, 09:40   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsn8887 View Post
FPS issue for CPU <0% fixed, but mouse pointer still jerky. Now I was able to test <0% CPU speed.
winuae.zip updated again, fastest possible low latency vsync vsync detection rewritten partially, hopefully it is a bit better now..

Quote:
Originally Posted by msayed1977 View Post
Your beta files became at smaller sizes, as the non-beta fixes.
At least be sure your final releases is CPU-optimized.
Official betas and finals have full optimization (=much longer compilation time). Non-official betas only have partial optimization enabled.
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Old 22 April 2012, 14:59   #72
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Hi Toni, the mouse pointer is still stuttering in latest winuae.zip.

I finally managed to get the effect onto video. It was a question of using a good, fast codec. The video "smooth_approximate_speed.avi" shows the smooth behaviour when "approx. speed" is selected. The video "stuttery_fastest_possible.avi" shows the jerky pointer when "fastest possible" is selected.

Toni, it would be awesome if you could take a look at the attached avis!
The filesize of the videos is only ~400 kb. The videos are tinted green for some reason but show the effect. They play with the freeware player program "mediaplayer classic" http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/ (I am not sure if they play on all machines with the official windows mediaplayer due to codec used).

I just turned on JIT and off again and with JIT on, the stuttering is much less (one stutter every 10 seconds or so). The effect is very clear when using keyboard mouse.

I think since scrolling etc. is all smooth, tested with Turrican 2, it must be something in the timing between b6 to b7 that affects only the mouse pointer (maybe other things that I haven't found yet), but not the overall vsync in general.

EDIT: JIT is NOT affecting it in 60 Hz mode, only in 100 Hz mode.
Attached Files
File Type: zip pointertest_movies.zip (390.8 KB, 49 views)

Last edited by rsn8887; 22 April 2012 at 15:10.
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Old 22 April 2012, 17:22   #73
Toni Wilen
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Did you try both no buffer, double and triple buffered modes? This can affect vsync behavior a lot, especially no vs double.

EDIT: I can see something similar if 100Hz and dragging screen. But only if 100Hz or 120Hz.

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 22 April 2012 at 17:47.
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Old 22 April 2012, 18:16   #74
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I can confirm what you say there Toni.

I had big screen and sound slowdowns since WinUAE 2.4.0

I realised that if I changed triple buffering down to no buffering everything then worked fine - now, on that setting, I have no issues with slowdowns at all.
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Old 22 April 2012, 19:11   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Did you try both no buffer, double and triple buffered modes? This can affect vsync behavior a lot, especially no vs double.

EDIT: I can see something similar if 100Hz and dragging screen. But only if 100Hz or 120Hz.
It happens in no buffer, double buffer and triple buffer in b9. I tested again with 60 Hz. It happens in 60 Hz NTSC for me, too. It is actually more visible here in 60 Hz. It looks like, during mouse pointer motion, every once in a while a ghost image of the pointer from the past flickers up behind the real pointer. I would say it is somewhat of a flickering effect in 60 Hz.

The "pointer jumping while screen dragging effect" might be related, but seems a bit different. These are myh test results using 60 Hz low latency Vsync (whether I use 50/60 vsync option or not seems to make no differenct)

BETA 6

Fastest possible:

no buffering - motion smooth, pointer lags behind when dragging screen but no jumping

double buffering - motion slightly jerky/flickery (see above discussion), screen dragging pointer position seems perfect

triple buffering - motion jerky/flickery, screen dragging pointer position seems perfect

Approx 1200 speed:

regardless of buffering - motion smooth, pointer jumps when dragging screen


BETA 9 (latest winuae.zip):

Fastest possible:

regardless of buffering - motion jerky/flickery, pointer jumps when dragging screen.

Approx 1200 speed
regardless of buffering - motion smooth, pointer jumps when dragging screen
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Old 22 April 2012, 20:57   #76
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Another winuae.zip update..

I found more corner cases that weren't handled correctly, no idea if it helps with your problem.

60Hz/120Hz skipped randomly in fastest possible no-buffer mode. (50Hz worked fine), wait period was calculated from hardcoded value that was too small for >50Hz rates.

NOTE: This version can randomly seem to stop responding or get really slow ((in low latency vsync only), just enter and exit the GUI to fix it. No time to fix it today.
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Old 23 April 2012, 01:21   #77
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Still the same problem here.

Btw, don't know if it helps, but in cycle exact mode the mouse pointer is perfectly smooth.

EDIT: But pointer position jumps when dragging screen still.

EDIT8: I said a bunch of nonsense here before about scrolling in Turrican 2 etc. not being smooth with latest winuae.zip, but never mind it still is fine. The sprite movement is perfectly smooth in Turrican 2. The problem so far is isolated to the mouse pointer as far as I can tell.

Last edited by rsn8887; 23 April 2012 at 04:55.
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Old 23 April 2012, 04:57   #78
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Toni, I just edited above post: Mouse pointer is still jerky/flickery, scrolling and sprite movements in Turrican 2 are smooth. Scrolling in Hyperdrive also smooth.
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Old 23 April 2012, 05:11   #79
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Here is another mousepointer related problem. This is very minor, and I have no clue how to reproduce it as of yet:

Sometimes during boot up of my wb (using latest winuae.zip), I get a "squished" mousepointer. See attached picture. This happened to me with an earlier 2.4.1 beta too once, but I don't remember which one it was.

I am guessing it has something to do with interlace/non-interlace switching, because an interlace picture is displayed during boot up time. But that's just a guess. It is hard to figure out since it almost never happens.
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	weird pointer.PNG
Views:	77
Size:	5.0 KB
ID:	31356  

Last edited by rsn8887; 23 April 2012 at 05:17.
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Old 23 April 2012, 08:09   #80
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsn8887 View Post
Here is another mousepointer related problem. This is very minor, and I have no clue how to reproduce it as of yet:
It is normal when using OCS/ECS configuration and hires mouse cursor is enabled (prefs/pointer). AGA supports hires sprites, OCS/ECS does not and AOS automatically removes every other line to make it ugly "hires-like"..
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