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Old 19 January 2012, 11:40   #1
Lord_Santa
 
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Amiga 500 Kickstart 1.2 - value?

hi everyone

I realize I've not posted much here (if at all) and that I may seem a "newcomer" to the Amiga scene, but asides from that I've been an avid Amiga user since back in 1990-something

the point of this thread, however would be this:

I recently (yesterday) purchased an Amiga 500, due to the two other A500's I've got having faulty disk-drives (one is "completely broken" and the other is "misaligned" I think) - hence I figured that I'd buy another A500 if nothing else just to take the disk-drive from it

when I went to the shop (local retro-store) I was presented with an Amiga 500 which looked and felt very... "new" or (at the very least) recently refurbished

I looked at it closer and noticed a switch on the rear-side (modded into the A500), not recalling having seen one earlier, I figured it'd be a Kickstart (ROM) switch

the other thing I noticed which occurred very odd to me, was the fact that the left [A]miga key (the one in italic on regular A500's) was a C= logo (Commodore logo)

I thought nothing more of it; but was just glad that I had an A500 which (I hoped) was working and hopeful that I had indeed a Kickstart-switch (was hoping to run KS2.0/2.1 or similar)

setting it up at home and turning it on, I noticed that both the Power LED and df0: LED lit up brightly and there was but a black-screen

the odd thing was that the Power LED was bright red - hence I was a bit surprised

somewhat disappointed that nothing worked, I went on to opening it and removing the df0: and keyboard to hook up with one of my other A500's, whereas I noticed that the Motherboard on this particular model looked... quite different from the other two A500's I had

connecting all the components needed to another A500 - I got everything up and running, so I figured I'd look up some more info on the model I had purchased

it turns out that this particular model was a 1987 A500 model (supposedly the first batch of A500's) and that it was considered rare

hence I put all the parts back together on the original (purchased) A500 and realized that whoever had installed the expansion-card (which I though was a KS-switcher) had put the Keyboard-connector backwards, hence it was unable to start

having fixed this (and also the df0; had been put in backwards) and booting the A500 up; I realized that it was Kickstart 1.2 - this was the "final nail in the coffin", making me realize that this was indeed an early model A500, hence the "old" Kickstart, as well

the chip with the switch proved to be a RAM-expansion (512kb) with a switch to be able of turning it off in order to get old(er) games working, which were in conflict with said expansion

now then, this A500 is in very good condition and fully functional, so my question is;

is it worth "stashing aside" for any particular (monetary) value, or can I use it as intended - i.e. playing on it?


also, some claim that Kickstart 1.2 is more compatible than Kickstart 1.3 (backwards, that is) and that it can also run all Kickstart 1.3 games

is this true, or a mere rumor?`

I have no wish to play the latest AGA games, etc. - but much more interested in the actual Amiga 500 games available out there, if nothing else I've got a CD32 if I want to look at pretty colors

I can post pictures of the A500 (KS1.2) if necessary, should you want to see the condition it's in

now I don't personally think that this thing is worth more than I paid for it (about 45€), but still to ease my curiosity, it'd be fun to know

(sorry about long post, I fail at keeping things short)

and I hope that this is indeed the correct forum to post such a question in - if not you'll have to forgive me and move my post to the correct section

thanks in advance

/André
 
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Old 19 January 2012, 13:54   #2
discomeats
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Worth the same as any other 1.2 a500

the whole "rare" is just.. well, not rare.

It wasn't worth €45 though, less than half that really, and that's with psu, mouse, modulator etc. ( ie: "complete" system)

Prices vary insanely on ebay but for a basic 1.2 a500 with a 1/2mb expansion and nothing else I can't imagine ever paying more than £10 plus postage on ebay which of course equates to "not many €"

as for 1.2 vs 1.3 I think that's just people saying words because they can say words.
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Old 19 January 2012, 14:14   #3
Lord_Santa
 
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thank you kindly

I know that everything said on "various internet sites/eBay" is to be taken with a spoonful of salt (and pepper), hence the reason I (finally) decided to join up here, to get proper information straight from a reliable source

(I've been lurking these forums for years, but never had a good enough reason to join)

I've read about changing kickstart ROM-chips from 1.2 -> 1.3 and it doesn't seem too much of a hassle, so I guess I can always upgrade it from one of the 1.3 machines if I want to

again, thank you for the information - I appreciate raw honesty when it comes to matters such as these, since it's easy to get caught up in the whole "it's rare and worth money" circus that the internet has a tendency to escalate into
 
Old 19 January 2012, 14:28   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Santa View Post
the other thing I noticed which occurred very odd to me, was the fact that the left [A]miga key (the one in italic on regular A500's) was a C= logo (Commodore logo)

the odd thing was that the Power LED was bright red - hence I was a bit surprised
This is because it's an early A500 model, they all are like that (i.e. red power LED and C= key)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Santa View Post
also, some claim that Kickstart 1.2 is more compatible than Kickstart 1.3 (backwards, that is) and that it can also run all Kickstart 1.3 games

is this true, or a mere rumor?`
Not true. There are enough 1.3 games/demos that use fixed ROM addresses, these won't work on 1.2. Thus it's wrong that all 1.3 games run on 1.2.
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Old 19 January 2012, 14:51   #5
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Red power leds were also found in Rev 5 and early Rev 6 A500s.

They switched the LED colours some time in the beginning of the 90s.
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Old 19 January 2012, 15:37   #6
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Of course there is some stuff that will also only run on a ks1.2 but not ks1.3 but not many.

As far as I am aware they swapped the power LED from red to green when they introduced the ECS chipset (could be wrong though).
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Old 19 January 2012, 22:02   #7
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Red power leds is not unusual. But A500 with C= keys is not that common.
About kick1.2, the only game i know which required 1.2 was Double Dragon 2 (later versions worked on newer kickstarts).
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Old 19 January 2012, 22:09   #8
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I think it's a bit of a rarity, and being in such good condition I'd put it in safe storage. You can just replace the drive in one of the other A500's and grind games with that instead.
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Old 20 January 2012, 21:29   #9
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The keyboard you probably wouldn't come across every day as others have said, the case/motherboard/disk drive are common as mud really..

If you want something which is 'rare' then the 1000, 3000T (3500) or 4000T are the ones to go for. Or some of the prototypes that pop up once in a blue moon.
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Old 20 January 2012, 21:34   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fryguy View Post
Red power leds is not unusual. But A500 with C= keys is not that common.
About kick1.2, the only game i know which required 1.2 was Double Dragon 2 (later versions worked on newer kickstarts).
I think the issue with Double Dragon II was with the ECS Agnus chip rather than the Kickstart version. It's just that most Kickstart 1.3 A500s seem to have the ECS Agnus, even though that wasn't advertised at the time.

Some old D.O.C. Soundtracker version required Kickstart 1.2. It jumped directly to absolute addresses in ROM for the keyboard-handling routine if I remember correctly.
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Old 21 January 2012, 05:35   #11
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Artic fox was one that would not work on 1.3. A friend had one of the first Amiga 500 with 1.2 and he loved artic fox. He the upgraded to 1.3 shortly after I got my 2000. He tried it on my A2000 with 1.3 and it did not work. We thought that there may be a difference between the 2000 and the 500. when He upgraded to 1.3 Artic fox did not work any more. (we did no realize at the time that the 500 and the 2000 were basically the same machine)
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Old 21 January 2012, 06:20   #12
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Quote:
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Artic fox was one that would not work on 1.3. A friend had one of the first Amiga 500 with 1.2 and he loved artic fox. He the upgraded to 1.3 shortly after I got my 2000. He tried it on my A2000 with 1.3 and it did not work. We thought that there may be a difference between the 2000 and the 500. when He upgraded to 1.3 Artic fox did not work any more. (we did no realize at the time that the 500 and the 2000 were basically the same machine)

yep

for the A500 +1mb ram destined only for games is better by far keeps with kickstart 1.2
kick 1.2 is 100% compatible with old games from 1986-1988 while somes games like archon ,archon 2,sky fox,artic fox, one on one and other will fail on kick 1.3

also there are not games that works on kick1.3 but don't works on kick 1.2
so kick 1.2 is the winner in games compatibility

in winuae my basic A500 config for games is equipped with kick 1.2 instead kick 1.3 like all ppl

btw,

also there are a few old games that only works in the amiga 1000 + kick 1.1 or kick 1.0
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Old 21 January 2012, 11:20   #13
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I think the issue with Double Dragon II was with the ECS Agnus chip rather than the Kickstart version. It's just that most Kickstart 1.3 A500s seem to have the ECS Agnus, even though that wasn't advertised at the time.

Some old D.O.C. Soundtracker version required Kickstart 1.2. It jumped directly to absolute addresses in ROM for the keyboard-handling routine if I remember correctly.
You're probably right about that.
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