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Old 08 September 2002, 05:57   #21
Amigaboy
 
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ok

I coded a quick and dirty Javascript codewheel (I would've had it done sooner, but IE gave me sooooo much shit. Eventually I figured out it doesn't like <BODY onload="functionname()">...piece of shit. Opera thought it was cool though)

Anyway, it's nothing spectacular and I'm sure just about anyone else can do better, but that's my attempt. It uses different images for everything since I have no idea how to rotate a graphic in Javascript (although I would assume it's possible)

------

To use it, do the following:

- Save all the graphics with the same filename, but with a counter appended to each...in my case, I used wheel0.gif, wheel1.gif......wheel10.gif

- Where I've written:
var firstnumber = 0, lastnumber = 10, counter = 0;

change firstnumber to the first value in the filenames and lastnumber to the last value in the filenames (my filenames start at 0 and end at 10). Also, change the counter to the first value

- Where I've written:
var basedir = "gfx/";

change the basedir to whereever you're storing your graphics.

- Replace all references of "wheel" to whatever you called your filenames and replace all references of ".gif" to whichever fileformat you're using

-------

That's about it. um. It's pretty self explanatory. Just muck around with the code and you'll get what you want
Someone should take the scans Sane has produced, and make the relevant graphics. From there, you have the code and the graphics, thus producing the Javascript Codewheel

The end
 
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Old 08 September 2002, 07:27   #22
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I made a Flash MX Monkey Island Codewheel.

To use it, Click and hold, and rotate the wheel.

That simple

If you like it I can make it detect the host platform and adapt accordingly (for PocketPC owners perhaps!)

Oh, I exported it as Flash 6 so you'll need the latest flash plugin. but I can do it on Flash 5 too.

Of course, it's in The Zone
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Old 08 September 2002, 12:07   #23
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Wow guys, you have been busy!

Amigaboy: Unfortuately we have to work from what was originally present in the game. So one scan for each wheel layer. Thus we need some rotation. Good effort though, I could see where you were going with that...

Jim&Akira: Even though you guys went ahead with it, I do still have some reservations about it being done in Flash. Also, I am pretty sure you *can* rotate images in JavaScript - I will have to look into it (I think the one I saw ages ago did it, but I could be wrong)

However, I must say - the results in Flash are pretty damn sweet.

So, I guess perhaps we can provide people with the choice?

How about many versions:

1) Flash version - for anybody that can use it.
2) Java version - for people who cannot use above (I can do this one)
3) Amiga version - as they probably cannot use either of the above (though the new Amiga's do Java AFAIK) - Done in whatever it best suited to the job.
4) JavaScript version - (maybe, and only if it can do it) - just for completeness

But, this is going to make each one more complicated. As they should not be game-specific. Just provide the "engine". An ideal, I know - but it is my "vision" if you like...

About about the scans:

All CAPS-related scans will be 300dpi. This is big, and we know it - but are guessing it will be less and less of a problem as times goes by. It is "good enough" without letting people create professional level duplications (for obvious reasons).

So, the images of each wheel will be 300dpi, and will be external to the engine (because of different games). For this reason it may also need to read a description file, but that is not a problem - because all CAPS releases *may* come with one anyway (to aid game front-end "viewer" writing (looking at boxes/disks in 2D and 3D perhaps, launching an emulator, etc.) So some extra codewheel tags is not a problem.

At the moment I can only think of needing "number of layers" and the filename for each layer - but Ithere may be other things needed. Does JPEG do transparency? We may need to use PNG to avoid some nasty issues.

These are all ideas, but it would be nice to get it all done for when CAPS start releasing stuff... So we don't have that long!

Anyway, about your current Flash version:

1) Is it possible to use Sane's scans as externals files at that quality?

2) Having it start "vertical" would also be nice... But that may require a rescan - or rotation of the current ones...

3) I don't quite get the control system, is it easy to make it just "click (hold) and spin" ? (ah, I see - I have to be slow with it...)

This is all ideas... Flame away
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Old 08 September 2002, 12:30   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by fiath
Wow guys, you have been busy!

How about many versions:

1) Flash version - for anybody that can use it.
This is the main version, and has been prooved workable by my crappy laughed-at example, and Akira's beta working version.

Quote:
2) Java version - for people who cannot use above (I can do this one)
This should be possible, but don't ask me !

Quote:
3) Amiga version - as they probably cannot use either of the above (though the new Amiga's do Java AFAIK) - Done in whatever it best suited to the job.
I can handle this if required. Something simple in Blitz or AMOS. This would have to be a low-res 320*200 job to be compatible with all Amigas.

Quote:
4) JavaScript version - (maybe, and only if it can do it) - just for completeness
Javascript cannot rotate images. Therefore you will need many many pre-rotated images. This will be impractical due to the sheer size of the graphics required. Note that the Javascript example recently uploaded used simple and small 2 colour graphics and was still large comparitively. If you wanted a 2/4 colour codewheel then use it could be done, but it would look naff.

Quote:
But, this is going to make each one more complicated. As they should not be game-specific. Just provide the "engine". An ideal, I know - but it is my "vision" if you like...
Whilst I think this would be ideal I honestly do not think it is worth it as how many code-wheels are there? and they are all different. And besides, it would be relatively easy for the programmer/designer of each platform to make a new wheel based on the last. I suggest the source for these wheels on each platform is released just in case the programmer dies or gets bored. It's hardly source code worth ripping off as it's simple. This will hopefully also encourage more people to help out.

Quote:
All CAPS-related scans will be 300dpi. This is big, and we know it - but are guessing it will be less and less of a problem as times goes by. It is "good enough" without letting people create professional level duplications (for obvious reasons).
I suggest 2 different things here - you have the original 300dpi's for your site and for people to download to print or whatever. The virtual software based codewheels use the smallest readable size. Or even slightly customised versions (i.e. fonts retouched) in the case of low-res systems like the Amiga (besides, the colours will have to be reduced to 32 in this case anyway).

Quote:
Anyway, about your current Flash version:

3) I don't quite get the control system, is it easy to make it just "click (hold) and spin" ? (ah, I see - I have to be slow with it...)
If I had the knowledge (you are God Akira!) I would have done 2 things to the control system he made:

1 - Got rid of it ! I would have had arrows or something. You could also use left/right cursor keys to turn, and up/down cursors to select each wheel. It did seem a bit strange and I never quite new what direction to expect it to turn ! This would be more difficult with a 3/4 wheel coder.

2 - I would have made it so that it quickly rotates and snaps into the next position, rather than slowly rotate round.

On another note Akira, whilst I appreciate your work and the fact that you want to advertise yourself on the wheel, maybe you shouldn't be associating your legit honest web-design company with what is still classed in the eyes of some as piracy ? People on here will know who did it, and you'll still get the credit you deserve.
 
Old 08 September 2002, 19:31   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim
On another note Akira, whilst I appreciate your work and the fact that you want to advertise yourself on the wheel, maybe you shouldn't be associating your legit honest web-design company with what is still classed in the eyes of some as piracy ? People on here will know who did it, and you'll still get the credit you deserve.
Heh dun worry. The Corporation doesnt give a shit
However that footer wouldn't appear in any final versions! This is just my beta/demo template

I dont need any credits, I just need to help out
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Old 08 September 2002, 19:41   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by fiath
Also, I am pretty sure you *can* rotate images in JavaScript
Must have been in JAVA, image rotation is impossible as Jim said. I told this to Amigaboy already

Quote:
Does JPEG do transparency? We may need to use PNG to avoid some nasty issues.
No it doesn't, that's why I used PNG. I just cut as transparent the place where the holes would be
Loading images on the fly is not a problem with Flash MX, we could have one codewheel engine that would dynamically load any images from external sources BUT (and thsi is a big BUT), Flash MX only loads external JPEG images, not PNGs. So we poop in the transparency

Anyway, having the source .fla file, it wouldn't be too difficult to update the images! You wouldn't have to touch a bit of code since I can tell the flash file which image name it has to insert, from an external textfile.
Quote:
1) Is it possible to use Sane's scans as externals files at that quality?
Err, I don't see the point in this really... They are HUGE, even at my 1280x1024 resolution. Why do you want them so big?
Besides, such huge files are bound to weigh a damn lot and would prolly slow down the performance of the flash file. Well, that's what I think, I didn't try.

Is it because you want to zoom in?
Quote:
2) Having it start "vertical" would also be nice... But that may require a rescan - or rotation of the current ones...
I don't understand you fully on thsi one
Quote:
3) I don't quite get the control system, is it easy to make it just "click (hold) and spin" ? (ah, I see - I have to be slow with it...)
You hold and spin. I can change the multiplier so you don't have to be so slow on it!
About jim's suggestions, it can be done by keyboard if you feel like it, and about snapping, that would mean each wheel had many different snapping methods, so it's pretty useless if I want to use one engine for many codewheels...

Anyway, let me know what you guys think, I'll work on it as time permits
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Old 09 September 2002, 00:19   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim

This is the main version, and has been prooved workable by my crappy laughed-at example, and Akira's beta working version.
I don't know about the "main" version. But okay

Quote:

I can handle this if required. Something simple in Blitz or AMOS. This would have to be a low-res 320*200 job to be compatible with all Amigas.
Yeah, I thought that one might be a problem... Would it be too hard to scale the images "on the fly"

Quote:

Javascript cannot rotate images. Therefore you will need many
Okay, I guess the JavaScript version I saw must have used many images - and I just didn't notice... I really wish I could have seen it's use earlier - but it turns out we have done better here now anyway

Quote:

Whilst I think this would be ideal I honestly do not think it is worth it as how many code-wheels are there? and they are all different. And besides, it would be relatively easy for the programmer/designer of each platform to make a new wheel based on the last. I suggest the source for these wheels on each platform is released just in case the programmer dies or gets bored. It's hardly source code worth ripping off as it's simple. This will hopefully also encourage more people to help out.
The reason I wanted it this was is that I would have liked to distributed datafiles only with CAPS releases - and allow people to download "viewers". But your right, there can't be that many codewheels. I have 5/6 in my 800-odd game collection...

Yes, I would have also liked the source to be public, but that is obviously up to the author.

Quote:

I suggest 2 different things here - you have the original 300dpi's for your site and for people to download to print or whatever. The virtual software based codewheels use the smallest readable size. Or even slightly customised versions (i.e. fonts retouched)
If this *has* to be the case - I guess it doesn't matter about the files being external...

Quote:

On another note Akira, whilst I appreciate your work and the fact that you want to advertise yourself on the wheel, maybe you shouldn't be associating your legit honest web-design company with what is still classed in the eyes of some as piracy ? People on here will know who did it, and you'll still get the credit you deserve.
All you guys will also get credit on the CAPS site obviously.
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Old 09 September 2002, 01:03   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akira

Must have been in JAVA, image rotation is impossible as Jim said. I told this to Amigaboy already
No, it wasn't Java. As I said above - it must have just been many images and I just didn't notice...

Quote:

No it doesn't, that's why I used PNG. I just cut as transparent the place where the holes would be
JPEG is out then

Quote:

Loading images on the fly is not a problem with Flash MX, we could have one codewheel engine that would dynamically load any images from external sources BUT (and thsi is a big BUT), Flash MX only loads external JPEG images, not PNGs. So we poop in the transparency
External files are out too then

Quote:

Anyway, having the source .fla file, it wouldn't be too difficult to update the images! You wouldn't have to touch a bit of code since I can tell the flash file which image name it has to insert, from an external textfile.
Okay, well there is not much point in having external files now anyway if it cannot use the ones in the distribution...

Quote:

Err, I don't see the point in this really... They are HUGE, even at my 1280x1024 resolution. Why do you want them so big?
We are perfectionists. Also, we decided that in the future the file sizes will become "small" and hence be less of a problem. We decided we might as well do it properly the first time - so for some presently unknown reason - nobody will have to go back and do it again.

Quote:

Besides, such huge files are bound to weigh a damn lot and would prolly slow down the performance of the flash file. Well, that's what I think, I didn't try.
Your probably right there, that is why I wondered if you could "scale" the image down on the fly.
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Old 09 September 2002, 01:04   #29
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(continued)


Quote:

Is it because you want to zoom in?
No, I just didn't want to have the files embedded in the viewer because we would then not be able to distribute the viewer on the CAPS website - copyrighted material and all that. So I wanted them to use the files in the distribution, and those will comply to the standard of 300dpi - not good enough for professional duplication - but very readable.

Quote:

I don't understand you fully on thsi one
I just meant that the two wheels are "lined up" by default. And the text is at a normal angle.

Quote:

You hold and spin. I can change the multiplier so you don't have to be so slow on it!
Sounds good - I think that is the main problem. But also there is only the one "hot spot" am I right? I would prefer it if you could "start" anywhere too, but that is just trimmings

Quote:

About jim's suggestions, it can be done by keyboard if you feel like it, and about snapping, that would mean each wheel had many different snapping methods, so it's pretty useless if I want to use one engine for many codewheels...
I think it is fine as it is, just faster rotation

Quote:

Anyway, let me know what you guys think, I'll work on it as time permits
Of course. There is no rush at all... This is a hobby and it is supposed to be fun. It will take me weeks to get the time to do the Java version anyway (if I do it at all).
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Old 09 September 2002, 01:26   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by fiath
Also, we decided that in the future the file sizes will become "small" and hence be less of a problem.
I didn't care about filesize, I care about the huge pixelsize! Scaling it down on the fly is possible but still, it would be damn slow (the file in memory is still hugeass).

Since it cannot use external files, we could scrap the 300DPI idea.. Then again, we could of use external files, if we make each PNG into a sepparated .SWF that we can load externally. That way we retain transparency and external file loading for bigger modularity.
Quote:
No, I just didn't want to have the files embedded in the viewer because we would then not be able to distribute the viewer on the CAPS website - copyrighted material and all that.
Using the SWF alternative could be OK then, I presume. I dont mind making 10 separate files for the engine to use . if I'm going to make this for you I miht as well do it all. As you said, codewheels are few.
Quote:
I just meant that the two wheels are "lined up" by default. And the text is at a normal angle.
You mean like what Disposable Hero does when it asks for copyprotection? having all images in a line? This could be possible, but it means more work (We have to take apart each image, and put the numbers in the proper order, and... a mess)
Quote:
Sounds good - I think that is the main problem. But also there is only the one "hot spot" am I right? I would prefer it if you could "start" anywhere too, but that is just trimmings
It has two actually, at zero and 180 degrees of the center of the inner wheel, at its x axis. I can find a nasty workaround for it, or sit down for a while and think about how to do it properly

I'll make proto with external SWF files loading.
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Old 09 September 2002, 02:00   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akira

I didn't care about filesize, I care about the huge pixelsize! Scaling it down on the fly is possible but still, it would be damn slow (the file in memory is still hugeass).
True. Perhaps 300dpi for a digital viewers is not a good idea...

Quote:

Since it cannot use external files, we could scrap the 300DPI idea.. Then again, we could of use external files, if we make each PNG into a sepparated .SWF that we can load externally. That way we retain transparency and external file loading for bigger modularity.
If we can't use the original files, I don't really see the point in doing this? May as well do it as your original one.

Quote:

Using the SWF alternative could be OK then, I presume. I dont mind making 10 separate files for the engine to use . if I'm going to make this for you I miht as well do it all. As you said, codewheels are few.
Really not much point IMO. Unless you can think of a reason to do?

Quote:

You mean like what Disposable Hero does when it asks for copyprotection? having all images in a line? This could be possible, but it means more work (We have to take apart each image, and put the numbers in the proper order, and... a mess)
No, I didn't mean that. Think of it this way: You have your MI2 codewheel in front of you (in tact). You want to make it look perfect - so you like up the top faces with the correct bottom faces and then lay down with the company logo's etc so they are readable without turning the wheel.

As I said - minor and very cosmetic

Quote:

It has two actually, at zero and 180 degrees of the center of the inner wheel, at its x axis. I can find a nasty workaround for it, or sit down for a while and think about how to do it properly
I don't mind.

Quote:

I'll make proto with external SWF files loading.
Again, only if you know of a good reason for it! Downloading a 40Kb SWF from the CAPS site is not going to mean much if you have to hunt for the other SWF's - we would get more "hate mail" that way - not less
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Old 09 September 2002, 02:19   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by fiath
If we can't use the original files, I don't really see the point in doing this? May as well do it as your original one.

Again, only if you know of a good reason for it! Downloading a 40Kb SWF from the CAPS site is not going to mean much if you have to hunt for the other SWF's - we would get more "hate mail" that way - not less
If you want to make this onto an EXE, it will weigh at least 800KB.

And the point in perhaps making external SWF files, is that any monkey with a copy of Flash could make their own, getting that off my workload . They just have to insert the images in a flash file with the right size, then export as SWF and presto,.
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Old 09 September 2002, 17:19   #33
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Okay, whatever you think best then... I will let you know how I get on with the Java version - but I know it won't be quite as "flashy". (soz)
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Old 16 February 2005, 21:50   #34
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hey, I don't mean to drag an old thread up, but I have recently bought monkey island 2 from ebay and the code wheel is missing. Is there any chance someone still has the one talked about in this thread?
 
Old 09 March 2005, 00:20   #35
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You can find a flash version for the original MI here. Probably not much use to you, but worth a luck just for nostalgia's sake IMO. I'll keep looking for the MI2 version.
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Old 09 March 2005, 10:59   #36
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I have the budget version of Monkey Island 2, which LucasArts themselves hacked to remove the copy protection. If you want the executable, let me know.
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Old 09 March 2005, 11:11   #37
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Echostryker: Thanks for that, at least we have a workable version now.

ant512: No need. It was only of interest to preserve the wheel itself. But thanks anyway.
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