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Old 25 October 2011, 23:29   #21
Photon
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Some would have said the ACA series was a holy grail

Until Jens did 3 different batches of cards! (Well, 4, when ACA520 comes...)

The first two sold out in just a few months, and likely the 1231's will be sold out too I'm pretty sure the ACA520s will all find a home too.

I really see the dev costs for the board of an 'ACA1260' as roughly equal to that of ACA1231. There might be complications but they're on the same playing field. I'm guessing now.

As for batch counts, I can only guess from what 3-4 webshops can buy in a year. Say 100 ACA630, and 200 each of ACA1230 and ACA1231.
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Old 25 October 2011, 23:59   #22
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I'm guessing your underestimating the amount of shops carrying Jens hardware. I did some poking around when i was trying to locate a 1230/56MHz for my self. But even at that your pretty much saying it your self. It's hard to get the numbers of a single unit up around the 4 figure number. And have hours of RnD in a product that you suspect isn't going to sell in more then in the low 100's... Perhaps when everything else is said and done. Like a last great hurray. "Better to end with a bang" but i doubt it.

The ACA 123x is probably pretty much "the same" design, with more or less tweaks to allow for different speeds, and the later reincarnation. The card for the A600 i guess is a product from a independent RnD process, as will the ACA520 be. And so on. And if he has trouble justifying a ACA for CDTV's, the AGA MKII for A4000 and so on... well, i guess a ACA1260 is in the same numbers. Bottom line is, if the hardware was free he could probably manage to sell the units to recover RnD, but the hardware is just the opposite, a 68060 is darn expensive...

Either way it's pure speculation. Jens has the numbers, but i doubt he is willing to share. I probably wouldn't be.
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Old 26 October 2011, 00:52   #23
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did i mention jens bought the rights to the apollo 040 060 range,thus stopping them from being produced.

that said if(and this is a big if)if jens made an 060 card that ran at 100mhz with the same memory latency of the aca1230 it would genarate approx 145 mips.I.E:-CT60 speeds

what price do you put on that performance.
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Old 26 October 2011, 03:49   #24
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Give Jens a call. I think he'd be happy to hire you if you could get him to get away with slower (cheaper parts) for the same performance, which is basically what your saying is possible. I'm pretty sure i saw a thread where he explained how he was pushing the ram already.

Your solution to adding something that rarely makes your system faster, is to make it slower all the rest of the time? Revolutionary thinking.
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I doubt Jens would be willing to hire me even if I could reduce the cost of his ACA boards or show that adding an FPU won't seriously hurt their performance. I live in USA and he's in Germany. Also, he's trying to keep his operating costs as low as possible.

As far as adding another wait state to ACA memory cycles, I thought I said this would be an "unlikely worst case scenario". However, even if it were necessary, it might reduce integer performance by 10-20%. A small price to pay for a few hundred % increase in Floating Point.

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Old 03 November 2011, 13:54   #25
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I love these threads, so much speculation!

I think we would all like to see an '60 board made by Jens. I am sure I have seen Jens comment somewhere or a quote along the lines that he was not a fan of the apollo designs, but never mind.

Its a shame no one can just get the original toolings and designs for the Blizzard cards. The Blizzard 1260 wasa thing of beauty and joy.

I expect that after R&D you would need something like sales of about 500 units, and price would be well over 500 a time, probably closer to 1000 a time. How many of us are dedicated enough to pay that much for an accelerator card for rendering etc?

I think its a stretch, but I would buy one still! Just leave another 499 sales to go....
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Old 03 November 2011, 15:01   #26
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How about joining forces with the Natami team and create a N050 turbocard for classics
Would sell like pancakes !
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Old 03 November 2011, 23:02   #27
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Where'd my post go?

Anyway, it all depends on the CPU. Used ones are quite cheap, but if Jens will neither 1) sell the card with just the socket, to owners who have a 68060 accel already and thereby a CPU, nor 2) make an exception and source used CPUs, it will never . ever . happen.

Certainly I don't see him making a very expensive (200 EUR+) board at all, and the CPU-less board could actually reduce the economical risk for him.

I hope he can see the potential for a card with just the socket, I mean the Amiga webshops there are have pretty good contact with the community and can easily deny returns if they swap CPU and it works.


In my opinion he could offer "Trade in your Apollo" coupons for a slight reduction in price

Hey, maybe that's the only thing that could make it possible. Send your old 68060 board to a reseller and they fit the old CPU on the ACA1260.
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Old 04 November 2011, 01:22   #28
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Hey, maybe that's the only thing that could make it possible. Send your old 68060 board to a reseller and they fit the old CPU on the ACA1260.
Not really helping, since it's the lack of availability thats the problem from the start. If you already got a 68060 accelerator, it's not really an issue anymore. Upgrading to a new build is really just for fun.
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Old 04 November 2011, 01:50   #29
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It's already been mentioned that an FPGA accelerator will be built one day when the prices come down enough (and there is still a classic Amiga market when that happens).

It will probably be based on an 030 softcore rather than an 040/060 core but it could still be much faster than a real 030 ACA.

A 200 Mhz 030 with FPU would probably be a as fast as a real 060 for most games/demos/applications.

Of course as it would be FPGA based, it could even be updated with an 040/060 softcore if one was ever developed (currently there is only an 020/030 core).
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Old 04 November 2011, 08:55   #30
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It's already been mentioned that an FPGA accelerator will be built one day when the prices come down enough (and there is still a classic Amiga market when that happens).

It will probably be based on an 030 softcore rather than an 040/060 core but it could still be much faster than a real 030 ACA.

A 200 Mhz 030 with FPU would probably be a as fast as a real 060 for most games/demos/applications.

Of course as it would be FPGA based, it could even be updated with an 040/060 softcore if one was ever developed (currently there is only an 020/030 core).
Yes it would be even better to have a 030 as it's more compatible with games and apps as opposed to 060. Just add more Mhz's or a couple of Ghz's ;-)
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Old 04 November 2011, 09:12   #31
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... Just add more Mhz's or a couple of Ghz's ;-)
What comes after Ghz's?
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Old 04 November 2011, 11:18   #32
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AmiTeraHertz (ATHz in short)?
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Old 04 November 2011, 23:20   #33
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Not really helping, since it's the lack of availability thats the problem from the start. If you already got a 68060 accelerator, it's not really an issue anymore. Upgrading to a new build is really just for fun.
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I agree, it would really hurt to send in a working 060 card, even if it's ... Apollo! But maybe for that very reason, Jens could be persuaded I mean as a 'clean up all those badly designed crap Apollos' project!

For myself, I'm happy with my Apollo. Very happy

Still, we need renewal of older Amigas in modern components, and downgrading to 030 if the 060 dies will hurt even more I think...
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Old 08 November 2011, 15:44   #34
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Silly question probably, but do Freescale still make the 68060 chip, if so is it in the same configuration and whast the price?
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Old 08 November 2011, 23:09   #35
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In their infinite wisdom they display search results in Flash, so I can't link to the result you'd have found had you gone to freescale.com.

I can link to a screenshot though!

About 3-400 USD a pop. I certainly don't hope the "10000 @ " before it is the quantity to get that advantageous price...
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Old 09 November 2011, 12:43   #36
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There are also new (Chinese?) SMD dark ceramic MC68060FE CPUs. With higher clocks, but no FPU/MMU. Or something like that. I might be wrong on some of the details. But those CPUs do exist.
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Old 09 November 2011, 15:11   #37
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There are also new (Chinese?) SMD dark ceramic MC68060FE CPUs. With higher clocks, but no FPU/MMU. Or something like that. I might be wrong on some of the details. But those CPUs do exist.

yes i know ive spoken about these they run at 133mhz,"rated mhz"but they have no fpu or mmu, so there pretty useless to be honest.theres no point for peaple like me who use the cpu for raytracing or rendering.


ive heard there going to use these on the natami,i wont buy one if they have these fitted.
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Old 09 November 2011, 15:14   #38
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there's no point for people like me who use the cpu for raytracing or rendering.
Nor the rest of the Classic Amiga community who want to play 060 games and run 060 demos.
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Old 09 November 2011, 15:18   #39
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true i agree alexh,that cpu is pretty useless,why did they even consider it for the next amiga ile never know,sorry for being off topic.

i just dont see the point in it.


EDIT:-actually they put an fe part on one apollo @75mhz at least it had an mmu,but still no fpu so usless non the less.
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Old 10 November 2011, 21:37   #40
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Don't agree that an 060 with MMU without FPU is useless. If it's the fastest thing around for everything but rendering and demos, it still has dozens of other uses, is a tremendous general boost, and still MUCH faster than an ACA1230, for example. But I know what you mean, of course...
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