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Old 01 November 2014, 19:30   #141
Mounty
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Originally Posted by gimbal View Post
The spiders you see in the garden are just a collection of molecules. But together they form a spider - the same for the pixels on the screen.
Yeah - you're right!

Be careful then - those spiders may bite you!

When I play, I will wear some gardening gloves....
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Old 03 November 2014, 17:26   #142
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If all else fails -



pixels or molecules...... arguably they will burn!
Especially if you level up your fire magic to the max.

On-topic: just like the first game had some design-oopses, I'm starting to see a couple in Grimrock 2 too, especially in the new features.

Example: guns. Wicked things, but they tend to get jammed and explode in the face of your entire party (which is also weird - why the entire party?) until you upgrade your guns skill to level 5 which greatly minimizes the chance of that happening. Read: before you use guns, you beeline to guns level 5 or they are basically just a huge joke.

Thus that wicked new "alchemist" class that was added, which is designed to use guns, is pretty much not going to be trained as an actual alchemist for the first hours of the game as you are investing points into a combat skill you're not going to use until it is maxed.

Erm... That doesn't really work well.
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Old 03 November 2014, 20:20   #143
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The first Grimrock I have to admit, I didn't focus my characters, because of this it was really hard grinding to get anything useful out of the back two chars - and the front two were weaker because I had not focused them.

This time round is massively different, with complete focus on their primary and then secondary skill sets already toting level 7 on my chars (except battle mage is level 8) and just outside sleet island - still yet to finish the Bog, the Den and the river tunnels...

To be fair its on the hardest mode, without the map - never before has my cartography skills been so tested!
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Old 03 November 2014, 21:43   #144
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I like what Almost Human try to do with feelings, the game feels - like the first one - very much like they loved the games they got inspiration from. There's much that I loved in old games that I get here too. And not obvious things either, but touches.

Still, shortcomings are plenty too, to me.
The character system while has nice perks lacks personality, I don't feel anything for the characters, for instance; plus, it's too much built for what you find in the game, it's mirroring too much the content you get, so that's mechanical.
Items too are generic or totally out of the blue, lacking reason or inegration: not even that I would ask for much lore in the game, or even at all, just a better fit.

The game world is so much dense that exploration is not real, you either get everything there is to find or you feel like you are unequipped to face the challenges ahead.

Finally, this modicum of story there is feels too much a pretext. Better not to have it at all, maybe. I litterally mean maybe, I cannot decide. What I know is that I would appreciate more a story at this point.

It feels also a bit more unfocused than the first one, but even so, I think it's much better than it: combat is so much more interesting and challenging, while the puzzles remained clever and interesting, I admire very much this part of design.

All in all, a very nice past time, but what I see it's more what I miss in it than what there is: it's visually state of art dungeon crawling, state of art game challenge, sufficient gameplay and very poor rpg.

I like it still anyway. Let put it this way, as adventures go, there are ones that have zero percent "feel" and some one hundred percent, not considering any other part of them. LoG 2 is somewhere below middle point, but the rest of it redeems a lot of its value.
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Old 04 November 2014, 09:40   #145
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Yes fair points - I must admit I've been so focused on the technical aspects of it that I did not have time to notice that it was lacking a good deal of RPG.

Regarding story - I called the movie "the Equalizer" to be not story driven but mystery driven. I think Grimrock 2 is the same (much like the first) and it works for me. I'm left with a constant wonderment of what the heck this island is about, why the boat was driven to crash there and who in the bloody hell is that cloaked "dungeon master" kind of character that keeps dropping notes for you? On top of that, how is this game ever going to hook back into the story of the first game?

There is much to learn and that willingness to go find out is what makes me want to keep playing this game together with the technical wizardry (captivating how describing the game makes me reference all the legends). I don't need anything told to me, I need things revealed to me. Slowly and surely, that's what the game does - if you pay attention.
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Old 04 November 2014, 11:11   #146
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I agree on that a story is something not always needing to be told to you, but also discovered, and in any case, built by yourself with the pieces you have, I'm just saying that I don't get to care enough for this to happen in this case, because of the game seeping genericity. But I share half of the responsibility for that, as the player, as one sets his expectances based on his experience and tastes too.
As I said I'm not bashing Grimrock, I even suggest people to play it. It simply not as overwhelming as any of the games that it gets inspired upon.
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Old 05 November 2014, 12:23   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimbal View Post
The game literally also has a new dimension with the whole ladder system and the ability to go under water - you don't have only floors like in the good old Dungeon Master, you have levels within the same floor which you can climb, look down and drop stuff in and plenty of pressure plate puzzles make good use of that. It adds another dimension to the puzzles and that makes it so the variation in puzzles is far greater than in the original Grimrock.
Just like Hired Guns.
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Old 09 November 2014, 21:45   #148
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Completed Grimrock 2 at last (without help):

Secrets: 66/77
Epic items: 14/17
Treasures: 8/11

Going to do that again, and try and find everything this time. Make better characters, too.
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Old 10 November 2014, 09:21   #149
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Respect that you did it so quick (although I don't play it continuously)! Some of the later puzzles are really giving me a headache :/

What was your party? I am currently to good effect sporting a:

- human knight (heavy weapons, light armor, dodge)
- human battlemage (light weapons, heavy armor, earth magic for poison)
- insectoid wizard (fire/air)
- ratling alchemist (guns/light weapons, alchemy, evasion to attack from the back)

All characters invest at least some points in concentration for extra energy, otherwise those mighty special attacks just don't work and it is tough to explore underwater.

Note also that Matt has a couple of interview episodes about Grimrock 1 & 2 up:

Part 1: [ Show youtube player ]
Part 2: [ Show youtube player ]
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Old 10 November 2014, 10:19   #150
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Code:
Party

Human knight lv14      Human knight lv14
5 heavy weapons        5 heavy weapons
5 armor                5 armor
5 accuracy             5 accuracy
1 critical             1 critical

Lizardman rogue lv14   Insectoid wizard lv14
5 missile weapons      5 alchemy
3 accuracy             3 concentration
5 critical             2 armor
2 armor                5 fire magic
                       3 air magic
Putting points in armor for the rogue and wizard may have been a mistake. Dual classing the wizard certainly wasn't a mistake. There are several books that give a character an extra skill point, so it's certainly viable to do this, especially since you don't need to max all magic (not even remotely).

And, yes, some of the puzzles are a little tough, but all the puzzles I've seen, including the ones related to secrets and treasures are logical. They did a great job with that. Nothing sucks more than illogical puzzles that require randomly trying things to solve.

For my next play through I'm going all human with the fast learner and skilled traits, and grind a bit. They should be able to get to level 16 that way without much trouble. This also removes the need for the exp boosting jewelry.

Last edited by Thorham; 10 November 2014 at 10:25.
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Old 10 November 2014, 12:14   #151
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I've got about past half the game, got really bored and started to cheat, adding a dozen strength to each character, mostly to carry the stuff around, not caring to have stashes around, as the walking all over he place is already much.
I've given also 5 skill points ti my lizard farmer, as he still carried 5 honestly earned skill points, and I did not wanted them wasted on the firearms if they were not fun to play.

Not strangely, it's not like the party is overpowered, I still have to dance around monsters and run away sometimes.

This is the single thing that I don't like about these kind of games: the gameplay being slave to the building of the characters / the conent dictating what a successful character may be. I believe it's the mechanism that takes away the role from roleplaying. but anyway.

It's a pity because the visuals are nice, the cemetery in particular, it feels the most original so far.
And again, the clever puzzles just keep coming.
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Old 10 November 2014, 12:46   #152
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Originally Posted by Thorham View Post
[/code]Putting points in armor for the rogue and wizard may have been a mistake. Dual classing the wizard certainly wasn't a mistake. There are several books that give a character an extra skill point, so it's certainly viable to do this, especially since you don't need to max all magic (not even remotely).
It depends, its only a mistake if you don't actively swap team members around. I've seen people do that when they're in a hairy fight and get themselves cornered to survive just a little bit longer.

Fire+Air magic is really powerful in this game, but don't ignore the poison bolt of earth magic - I'm doing some really nasty repeating damage with it especially to groups of enemies and so far only undead are unaffected by it - and it just so happens there are far less undead in this game so Its a lot more effective than it was in Grimrock 1. And its just satisfying to have both a fireball and a poison bolt prepared and then firing them one after the other, followed by a critical shot from a gun

I haven't seen what water magic does yet in the game, I wonder what that is like in Grimrock 2. I imagine there are now also some spells which require three schools. I guess I'm at the point where I can dig up a spell list without spoiling anything.
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Old 10 November 2014, 13:28   #153
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It depends, its only a mistake if you don't actively swap team members around. I've seen people do that when they're in a hairy fight and get themselves cornered to survive just a little bit longer.
Yeah, I've done that too, once or twice. Especially useful because wizards can cast shield. The armor points were wasted, though. The idea was to get rid of the light armor penalty. But some reduced evasion doesn't matter much, and the best gear for rogues and wizards isn't classed as light or heavy, and has no penalties. Next play through these points are going into something useful.

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don't ignore the poison bolt of earth magic
Everyone says earth magic is weak, guess I'll need to do some reading.

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I imagine there are now also some spells which require three schools.
Haven't seen them. The most powerful offensive spell requires two.
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Old 10 November 2014, 19:22   #154
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I read that all around the net too. Perhaps in the last tier of the game the spell becomes pretty useless, but at least in the many hours I've spent in it so far its been a good friend at the mere cost of 2 points into earth magic.

Here is a spoiler free spell list which indeed confirms there are no three-skill spells. Such a bummer, I wish they'd spend more time designing and balancing the magic system The spell list is and remains very limited, especially the list of spells you'll actually regularly use.

http://www.grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7198
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Old 11 November 2014, 14:13   #155
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I only ever invest in fire and air magic for meteor storm, invisibility and because I tend to dual class my wizard to alchemy. Then you also need points in concentration and the other two elements tend to get left behind.

I can see poison damage remaining useful potentially, but not in the true last battle. Magic isn't the answer to beating the island master anyway, and there's a MUCH better way of dispatching him.
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Old 11 November 2014, 20:31   #156
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Well - underwater in the sewers you can find a serpent staff - it actually has poison bolt on it as a special attack (and an awesome +25 energy), so you could use that rather than invest in earth magic.

Its always good to strip-search visited places a second time, that's when you find the smallest buttons and the most epic loot
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Old 03 February 2016, 10:23   #157
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I just got both games Grimrock 1&2.

system requirements. ???

DDR2, IGP HD3200, Turion Ultra Dual core 2.4Ghz, screenmode 1200x800 . ..just about playable not smooth.

DDR1,Radeon R9, FX-60 2.6Ghz Dual core, screenmode 1776x1000..Ultra smooth (Dram is set at slow speed). I don't need to turn anything up.

So you don't need a strong CPU, just a very good GFX card.
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Old 04 February 2016, 05:12   #158
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Originally Posted by delshay View Post
I just got both games Grimrock 1&2.

system requirements. ???

DDR2, IGP HD3200, Turion Ultra Dual core 2.4Ghz, screenmode 1200x800 . ..just about playable not smooth.

DDR1,Radeon R9, FX-60 2.6Ghz Dual core, screenmode 1776x1000..Ultra smooth (Dram is set at slow speed). I don't need to turn anything up.

So you don't need a strong CPU, just a very good GFX card.
The first game had trouble playing on my 2009 13" MacBookPro at a satisfying speed which quite surprised me and actually prevented me from enjoying the game enough to continue playing. I do not think they put much effort into writing an efficient rendering engine since the game really does not have much to display even in the busiest moments.

And this thread reminds me that now that I have a new computer I can finally go back to playing it comfortably so thanks guy for reviving it!

Also of note: even though it is a tribute to Dungeon Master, I found the game's UI to be much lacking compared to DM. I cannot remember exactly what were my gripes with it but the icons and buttons were not as accessible as DM's which is a bit of a shame for a spiritual successor. I hope they fixed that for the second episode. And actually I must say that to date, none of the DM clones I tested managed to reach the same fluidity of user experience that DM offered, isn't it interesting how people copy the idea and gameplay but fail to realize the importance of some apparently minor but actually crucial UI placement details?
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Old 04 February 2016, 09:13   #159
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"I hope they fixed that for the second episode."

Nope The magic interface is a little improved, that's about it.
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Old 08 February 2016, 14:18   #160
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I just got this game. does not seem as good as Grimrock but its too early to tell, but it's also very demanding & is clearly can't be played on Turion ultra.

http://www.managames.com/DungeonGuardians/

Review

http://www.gamegrin.com/reviews/the-...rdians-review/

Video/Screenshot

http://www.moddb.com/games/the-fall-...geon-guardians

Last edited by delshay; 08 February 2016 at 18:56.
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