Which FPGA Implementation of Amiga are you looking forward too?

[digiflip]

What Features Are looking forward too?

[digiflip]

http://rmm.ath.cx:9001/foswiki/bin/view/FpgaArm/WebHome

interesting link

[Leffmann]

Will be interesting to see the finished Natami with 3D-acceleration etc. though I don't think I will ever buy it, nor any of the other alternatives. I have an old A1200 and once I get around to setting that up I will have enough Amiga for my taste.

[Schoenfeld]

digiflip,

an ARM in FPGA is not required if you want to emulate the ARM board for Minimig. Look at the Minimig core for Chameleon: The ARM board is emulated with a second instance of the 68000 processor. The C-Code is compiled using DICE on the Amiga, and it works great. Chameleon has the functionality of a Minimig board with ARM board, and all processors are in the FPGA.

Jens

[mfilos]

Yep you can see a test of my Chameleon booting ClassicWB 68k using the Minimig core (incl. ARM board) under standalone mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW_k7fOZBHE

[Oli_HD]

NatAmi for me please, I want to see AGA and custom chips taken to the extreme.

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by mfilos

Yep you can see a test of my Chameleon booting ClassicWB 68k using the Minimig core (incl. ARM board) under standalone mode.

Try the new core released today - it's almost twice as fast.

Jens

[mfilos]

Awesome Jens. Will try it on this evening

[moijk]

Originally Posted by mfilos

Awesome Jens. Will try it on this evening

Out of curiosity and a bit off topic, how do you do anything with the cartridge in standalone mode? operate it through a connected pc?

[Ffin]

Originally Posted by moijk

Out of curiosity and a bit off topic, how do you do anything with the cartridge in standalone mode? operate it through a connected pc?

No, the Chameleon has I/O for mouse, keyboard and VGA, and memory and storage on-board. The PC is only needed for updates, and power when in standalone mode.

See here: http://www.vesalia.de/e_chameleon.htm

[Thorham]

Although Natami sounds very good, an A1200 replica with '030 or '060 as an option sounds much better to me (yeah, I'm one of those purists ).

[Ffin]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Although Natami sounds very good, an A1200 replica with '030 or '060 as an option sounds much better to me (yeah, I'm one of those purists ).

Natami in an A1200 case with real Amiga keyboard =

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Ffin

Natami in an A1200 case with real Amiga keyboard =

But a Natami isn't a replica of the hardware (emulation would be fine) and is much more powerful. I want the same specs as an A1200 with 50mhz '030 Updated connectivity and a linear Paula (no more 14 bit calibration file needed) would be a nice plus, though.

[Ffin]

Originally Posted by Thorham

But a Natami isn't a replica of the hardware (emulation would be fine) and is much more powerful. I want the same specs as an A1200 with 50mhz '030 Updated connectivity and a linear Paula (no more 14 bit calibration file needed) would be a nice plus, though.

I wasn't making a suggestion, I was stating my own preference. Old style case, correct keyboard layout, nice new electronics. Yum.

[moijk]

Originally Posted by Ffin

I wasn't making a suggestion, I was stating my own preference. Old style case, correct keyboard layout, nice new electronics. Yum.

should that be possible with lyra?

[haynor]

Nothing beats real amiga, even this one.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by haynor

Nothing beats real amiga, even this one.

You got that right. If only I was a billionaire (not that you'd need that much), then I could just buy Amiga and start the production of Amigas again (at a loss ).

Originally Posted by Ffin

I wasn't making a suggestion, I was stating my own preference. Old style case, correct keyboard layout, nice new electronics. Yum.

Thought you did because of the quote

[Ffin]

Originally Posted by moijk

should that be possible with lyra?

Not Lyra, that's for using PC keyboards. Keyrah is the adapter you are thinking of, and it should be possible, space permitting.

[imigger]

hi im looking forward to the arcade board with all that lovly memory and 68060 ,i cant wait im fedup waiting i want it now pleaaaaseeeeeeeeee

[gilgamesh]

Amiga in a joystick.

[Photon]

I agree the best "whoever owns Amiga now" could do would be to sell cases (not being arrogant now). Containing misc hardware that works like an Amiga.

As far as that hardware is concerned, my dream would be 680x0+chipset remade 100% compatible, even if that is 68000+OCS (read: A1000). Maybe not 100%, but it needs to be "more accurate than WinUAE", so very close. Whatever modes are added on from there are a plus, and there could be an "n times" accelerated option, etc. The rest of the hardware (ports, compatibility with real-Amiga expansion) are irrelevant now.

But when non-Amiga things like 68000 emulation with another CPU running a non C= OS and graphics cards with pixelbuffers the chipset can't use get involved you lose what Amiga is. It's no longer an Amiga, no point for me.

Simplest possible "Amiga core", 100%. I would be extremely happy and content with that. Minimig really isn't that shabby, even if you'd want to be able to dev properly on it for it to be a replacement (compatibility, full install of whatever WB version you want, support of the Assembler etc of your choice etc.)

[desiv]

Originally Posted by gilgamesh

Amiga in a joystick.

Actually, the MCC looks small enough to do that...
(Although it's hard to tell the actual scale from the pics I've seen)

desiv

[Exit]

Natami ofcozz

[lolafg]

A 68020 could be done in Minimig?

[Paul_s]

Two real Amiga 500's playing two player serial mode of Lotus II with a beautiful woman wearing bikini

[digiflip]

so Clone-A might be something like the chameleon. Cool maybe I could use Clone-A on amiga cd 32 has accelarator and standalone.

[Photon]

Originally Posted by gilgamesh

Amiga in a joystick.

That's a vile idea for so many reasons and will transform the Amiga into a toy and kill whatever user base there is when you've played with it and thrown it in the toy bin. The same as with gaming handhelds. If the joystick is not up to scratch or otherwise not your cup of tea, the whole thing is as bad as the joystick. Plus, it's a toy and when the games aren't fun anymore its value is zero. Disgusting thought, brrr.

When it comes to a future for Amiga, Jens Schönfeld has consistently had the best ideas in that direction. Because don't forget that any Amiga hardware will have to be sustainable economically, else it's a flash in the pan - users won't buy (cos there are no more) and dev won't dev (cos he made little money last time). Jens' decisions and designs have grown on me to where he's impressed me as a reliable professional who has a battle plan.

What we need is a motherboard replacement of any of the Amiga models that outputs audio and video, and that runs at least that model's Amiga software well enough, and that accepts most of the newly made hardware expansions. If I know Jens, he already has some sound thoughts in that direction

For new software to be dev'd and sold for that platform, it'd have to have some easy insertion of media, or devs would go real Amiga (or any other platform) instead. (As in, "OK, you've paid for the software, now follow this twelve-step guide to get it on your Amiga and maybe after half an hour if you made no mistake you'll be able to use it.")

In this day and age, it would be insane to support "any disc", cartridges or distribution on MMC or floppy. An ethernet port, and the problem is solved.

I hope one of the hardware projects going on comes near this solution. Will be interesting to see what the future brings

[gilgamesh]

I see it this way: Add USB and flash rom slots, and you can have a full blown home computer. Some people will use it that way, some will only play games and some will eventually dump it (as many have dumped the Amiga when PCs and PlayStations became fashionable).

Maybe it's not the true gospel, but I don't see how it can possibly do more harm than good. Maybe it will interest people in Amiga that never had anything to do with it before.

[HenryCase]

Originally Posted by gilgamesh

I see it this way: Add USB and flash rom slots, and you can have a full blown home computer.

Something similar happened with the C64DTV, in that people hacked it to turn it into a full featured C64 computer. With an Amiga in a joystick design, this kind of behaviour could be encouraged by making it as simple as possible to hack.

If anyone's interested in learning more about the C64DTV hacks, here are a few links to get you started:
http://picobay.com/dtv_wiki/index.ph...V_Hacking_Wiki
http://www.64hdd.com/projects/hardware/c64-dtv64.html
http://www.picobay.com/projects/2007...re-64-pda.html

[Photon]

Originally Posted by gilgamesh

I see it this way: Add USB and flash rom slots, and you can have a full blown home computer. Some people will use it that way, some will only play games and some will eventually dump it (as many have dumped the Amiga when PCs and PlayStations became fashionable).

Maybe it's not the true gospel, but I don't see how it can possibly do more harm than good. Maybe it will interest people in Amiga that never had anything to do with it before.

I wasn't saying there couldn't be Amiga-like hardware solutions apart from the Amiga solution (there already are), just that Amiga-in-a-joystick is an ugly idea I can build a better joystick than that in the C64 DTV and put a Minimig in it, that's not the problem. The problem is that it would be a waste of time with no commercial success, and I want success for those who dev a real Amiga!

But (seemingly) I aim for a brighter/longer future than you. I'm talking about a platform that the people that didn't stop (or temporarily stopped) using Amiga, or never used Amiga, can have as a solid platform to continue on, perhaps years from now. Not a novelty retro gaming system. That's what emulators are (mostly used) for, and also any hardware/software solution that emulates 68k.

Any 68k (or replacement) core to be dropped into "FPGA" will be a kind of emulation of course, even if much closer to 100% cycle-exacty and with the possibility of full speed with full speed access to off the shelf memory.

There's no two ways about it, full 68k and chipset implementation with off the shelf components is the only way to continue an Amiga that is an Amiga. Anything else will have to compete with WinUAE for Amiga-likeness, and WinUAE is currently much better and more useful and easier to get software running with than current non-Amiga hardware. Neither emulators nor emulating hardware will ever be a real Amiga.

The real Amiga will also have to compete with WinUAE, which is a hard task but certainly less impossible than with Amiga-like hardware. This is where ethernet comes in. Like using the emulator, the platform must not be cut off from the internet.

There's lots of web resources and software to build to make it a solid platform, but if it's compatible we have an existing software base to start out from. Later it would get faster in hardware (because the platform is in modern components) and more useful in software (because it's an actual platform being used).

Certainly there is lots of talent and knowledge in all current Amiga projects and commercial products, if they agree with this goal and work together towards it, I can't see a problem with a platform coming forth that is more alive than real Amiga in terms of being used as a modern computer, not home computer, with new software and hardware releasable for it.

This new, real Amiga would be able to do more than an A4060, but it would do it as an Amiga. If you have a PPC Amiga you are using the PPC Amiga and a different OS for most of the stuff and using the real Amiga the PPC sits in occasionally. That's not a new real Amiga.

Similarly, if you would add a modern CPU to run a web browser or add a graphics card, you run the risk of a platform that is used the same way. While those who love Amiga would see an emulator in PC as a more useful AND more Amiga-compatible platform.

The way out of this is 68k cores at higher speeds or multiple cores, and expanded custom chips (once the exact behavior of the current chipset is implemented). An example would be converting the chipset to DMA all memory, of which the first 2MB just happens to be chip memory. Then 32-bit video modes could be added, because Denise could show it and Agnus could blit to it. The thinking goes, if Commodore-Amiga had added a non-bitplane video mode, 32-bit blitter, or Motorola had made a multi-core, parallel-instruction-issuing CPU in the 1990s, the devs had said "Thank you, finally" and continued deving for it. (At least the odds had been a bit better )

Apparently a lot of the Amiga userbase used it almost exclusively for games and so they jumped to consoles. But both for these AND for Amiga-lovers who use their Amiga for other things, a new real Amiga is the most attractive solution.


I write how I feel about this, which is a lot. I'll shut up now and launch the site where I detail the plan that crystallized over the last year instead.


As for the topic, from the in-progress projects I only consider the A1k mobo and Clone-A to be in the ball game. I will buy any of these (or a Minimig) when and if they require a physical 68k CPU and/or Kickstart. From Jens' scant info, Clone-A already seems the most interesting and relevant to the Amiga future I dream of.

[StrategyGamer]

Originally Posted by digiflip

What Features Are looking forward too?

512MB of RAM

[HenryCase]

Originally Posted by Photon

As for the topic, from the in-progress projects I only consider the A1k mobo and Clone-A to be in the ball game. I will buy any of these (or a Minimig) when and if they require a physical 68k CPU and/or Kickstart. From Jens' scant info, Clone-A already seems the most interesting and relevant to the Amiga future I dream of.

It's interesting that you close with this Photon, as for most of your last post you describe what the Natami sets out to do. Is there a logical reason you do not choose to rate it?

[gilgamesh]

That's what I thought, too.

[moijk]

Originally Posted by Photon

Any 68k (or replacement) core to be dropped into "FPGA" will be a kind of emulation of course, even if much closer to 100% cycle-exacty and with the possibility of full speed with full speed access to off the shelf memory.

Why is any core running on fpga emulation? Is it because it's not made by Motorola nor Freescale? Or is it because it isn't a physical wired processor, but flashed to behave as it was?

If the first, then wouldn't any PC be "emulation"? Since it is derived from a reverse engineered bios, and not the one made by IBM?

If second, it is only (lots of) money that is in between having say the natami when done as traditional physical components.

Both the natami and fpga arcade will let you use a real processor if that is what you want by adding a daughter board.

It will not be a real Amiga, it will be a compatible / clone Amiga (just as a PC used to be known as a IBM Compatible PC). so people looking for the real experience will have to find an old Amiga and upgrade it to their wishes. I'll however will stay with classical amigas while getting a modern Amiga clone.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Leffmann

Will be interesting to see the finished Natami with 3D-acceleration etc. though I don't think I will ever buy it, nor any of the other alternatives. I have an old A1200 and once I get around to setting that up I will have enough Amiga for my taste.

Agreed. I have both an a500 and an a1200/060 and they will be more than enough for me. Also got a couple of spares in the closet for when something bad might happen. (:

Might be that I just like the old machines as they are and not really interrested in anything new. Lots of my mates are completely horny for the Natami though and I do see why.

[moijk]

Originally Posted by Skope

Might be that I just like the old machines as they are and not really interrested in anything new. Lots of my mates are completely horny for the Natami though and I do see why.

With all those gorgeous swedish blondes around, the thing that turns them on is the natami?

[Skope]

Originally Posted by moijk

With all those gorgeous swedish blondes around, the thing that turns them on is the natami?

Haha, well they're geeks. What can I say?

[mfilos]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Try the new core released today - it's almost twice as fast.

Jens

Jens I tried 2 days ago the new core and I can say that is significantly faster
Good job!!!

Also made a quick YouTube video testing it @ 640x256 with 16colors and Rebel's Palette.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U89WNP26b6M

Thanks

[digiflip]

Im looking forward to next batch of fpga arcade boards since Mikej confirms to be nearly ready just fitting components to next batch.


http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthre...784#post641784

Rejoice FPGA Arcade and Amiga fans

[alexh]

None really. The hardware (FPGA wise) is still too expensive for the number of gates in a classic Amiga chipset. Give it a few years and a $2 FPGA will contain enough user programmable gates to implement an RTG 030 based Amiga