English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Amiga scene

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 20 August 2002, 18:33   #101
IanS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nottingham England
Posts: 209
Smile

Just keep your little miggy and use it for what it is needed for. The A1 may at some stage prove to be a suitable replacement for your PC, not the miggy. Any computer is just a tool and should be used as such. Just have fun doing it. :-)
IanS is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 20 August 2002, 20:52   #102
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,304
Convince Macromedia and you got me with an A1.
Akira is offline  
Old 20 August 2002, 21:45   #103
IanS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nottingham England
Posts: 209
Wishful thinking?

I was thinking of the number of s/w houses/programmes that started on the Amiga, and then ended up on the PC. Companies like Newtek and the Lightwave/toaster stuff, Cinema 4D, Photogenics etc. Some of these were groundbreaking products that were overtaken by the PC versions. What we need is more of these innovative packages that work better than the stuff on PCs (and Macs of course). Do you think, for example, that Macromedia products would be different enough on the A1 to justify dumping the Wintel box? I hope we can drag some of the talent that produced quality Amiga s/w over to the A1.

Unfortunately, I don't think the A1 has the technological edge over PCs or Apple Macs. Even Apple have dropped the G3 for the iMac, and they use the same or better h/w for sound and graphics. All of which means that, on paper at least, the A1 loses out.

Fingers crossed that the (expected) speed and efficiency of OS4 can offset these differences.
IanS is offline  
Old 21 August 2002, 06:03   #104
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,304
Re: Wishful thinking?

Quote:
Originally posted by IanS
Newtek
They are still with the Amiga, the Videotoaster is UNIQUE and unmatched in any other system. Miro?Matrox? My arse.
Quote:
Do you think, for example, that Macromedia products would be different enough on the A1 to justify dumping the Wintel box?
Here I stop understanding you. Why is it that you want the AmigaOne for? just to play Quake? Even if the programs are THE SAME (they should be the same! Their Mac versions are equal to the PC versions) it would still be the better platform, if only for the superior OS. I choose an AmigaOS/Motorola powered machine to any Wintel piece of shite anyday.

I really DON'T understand your point now, the last few posts you have buried your initial statement 100 feet underground! Mind elucidating it?
Akira is offline  
Old 21 August 2002, 06:41   #105
Fred the Fop
flaming faggot
Fred the Fop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Versailles
Age: 49
Posts: 2,802
Re: Re: Wishful thinking?

Quote:
Originally posted by Akira

(they should be the same! Their Mac versions are equal to the PC versions)
Wrong on most part, buddy. In comparing almost every program I own on both Mac/PC, such as Office, the Mac version wipes the PeeCee's version all over the place. I consistently show off the Mac's vesrions to ooing and ahhing PeeCee people. They say "Oh, why doesn't the Windows version do this or look as pretty etc etc". I answer: because the PC version can't.
Fred the Fop is offline  
Old 21 August 2002, 08:11   #106
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,304
The programs I use, do not differ among the versions radically. Of course, the Macromedia apps kind of perform better on the mac (since it is teh first platform they are made for, the PC versions are ports), but both are functionally the same. This is great. Why? Two main issues:

1) Having different stuff would delve into stupid cpompatibility issues. In a working environment, this is most unwanted.

2) You can easily move from development in one platform to the other, and you can develop indistinctly for one platform or the other, and do cross-development! Little example here: let's say, I have 3 macs and one PC in my studio, and I hire 4 design blokes, and put 3 on the Macs and one on the PC... (obvious :P)... I let them work there for some time, get used to, say, Fireworks MX... After a couple of weeks I take one Mac designer and make him swap places with the PC fiend. I have automatically lost two in the team because they will have to spend a couple extra weeks getting used to the new platform, all because the same program differs in both machines! (if this was indeed true, Fireworks MX is identical in both Mac and PC platforms)

Now I dont know which program/s are you talking about Fredster, perhaps a Microsoft product is not a very good example . But if there really are important working differences, they might not be so good. Might not be so noticeable in graphic editing programs though, the more options the better.

I presume Photoshop 6 on the Mac and the PC are functionally equal, only that the Mac version is so much better to use because of the increased performance (and the ease of use of its interface too, maybe). I'd like to know more anyway.
Akira is offline  
Old 21 August 2002, 10:26   #107
Twistin'Ghost
Give up the ghost
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: U$A
Age: 26
Posts: 4,662
Adobe Acrobat is very different between PC and Mac. Adobe allows the Mac version to export to a number of formats, including TIFF, JPG, etc., while the PC version only exports to EPS.This is clearly Adobe making the Mac version better. You cannot claim the PC is unable to save a file as TIF or JPG. I notice Adobe does this quite often. Matter of fact, Quark Xpress is the same way.
Twistin'Ghost is offline  
Old 21 August 2002, 11:50   #108
Korodny
Zone Friend
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 658
Amiga Apps usually feel different. They're small, fast (well, on fast hardware..), extremely configurable and concentrate on the job they're intended to do (we don't have Web browsers that have instant messaging or web design functionality built in).

Additionally, they come with an ARexx port. ARexx has to be one of the most brilliant concepts I've ever seen on any system. Its interprocess communication functionality is still unmatched on any platform I know of. I wouldn't know what to do without ARexx...

Amiga applications are one the main reasons to stick with the Amiga. Of course, we won't have Photoshop (or anything matching its functionality), but I'm quite happy with what is (will be) available.

Perhaps that's what Ian was talking about?

@Akira:

Quote:
Heh, i'm a maniac, I know
That's for sure

Quote:
I'm using Videotracker as a live performance videotool. I setup Vidules made of effects/videos/stuff on various scenes and I trigger them live with the joystick. This gets mixed with stuff I display with the PC, created with Flash MX. The other channel is a videocamera shooting live at the place. Works EXCELLENTLY and I cannot replace this tool. I use a Flash MX pseudo-3D routine, but the vector routines in Videotracker cant be beaten. I have HUGE scrollers. Starfields. I can display ANIM5s and fuck aroudn with their colors realtime. This is unmatched by any program on any platform. And yes, it keeps a very retro feel. I like this feel, it makes it unique. Recently Old Fashioned, as a friend of mine would say No new tool can replace what this bitchy does
Wow, that's a cool way to use this kind of technology! Are you working on raves and the like or is this some kind life art performance ?

Quote:
I wouldnt be able to use RTG ayway. I need the composite output. I'm connecting the Amiga to a video mixer, not directly to a projector (that would take VGA as input).
The AmigaOne does not have a composite video port, but it doesn't have a VGA port either - it just has an AGP slot

Equipped with a gfx card with TV/composite out the A1 is able to do analog video stuff again - even in truecolor this time. The OS and the applications will still be able to handle PAL/NTSC resolutions perfectly of course.

Quote:
Hmm, so that would mean MediaPoint is useless to me, again Without a composite video port the Amiga becomes a useless videotoy in my setup.
Unfortunately, MediaPointRTG will only be released for OS4, just like most of the new stuff.

Quote:
I really want to shove up a video of a live performance on my site, but I'm having space problems right now.
Do you wan to have it published on a magazine CD? I don't know if they're paying for CD contributions (I doubt it) but we could make a feature about your setup... (as long as it's concentrating on the Amiga ). I could translate the stuff, if you're willing to write something. Like to earn some money with your Amiga experience?
Korodny is offline  
Old 21 August 2002, 20:50   #109
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,304
Quote:
Originally posted by Twistin'Ghost
Adobe Acrobat is very different between PC and Mac. Adobe allows the Mac version to export to a number of formats, including TIFF, JPG, etc., while the PC version only exports to EPS.This is clearly Adobe making the Mac version better. You cannot claim the PC is unable to save a file as TIF or JPG. I notice Adobe does this quite often. Matter of fact, Quark Xpress is the same way.
I agree. Adobe seems to do it on purpose (good for macs ). Still, I'm mainly talking about serious structure differences among the proggies, that would jeopardize the working machine. That would be most unwanted.
Akira is offline  
Old 21 August 2002, 20:51   #110
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,304
Quote:
Wow, that's a cool way to use this kind of technology! Are you working on raves and the like or is this some kind life art performance ?
Haven't had an art display yet, I'm planning to do a 3 projector setup soon for media coverage, and getting a bit more exposure of my studio . I use this setup live at nightclubs. I am taking this setup to parties organized by Camel mainly. They bring an international DJ (let's say, hmmm... Carl Cox), and have this video show which is conducted by me.

Quote:
The AmigaOne does not have a composite video port, but it doesn't have a VGA port either - it just has an AGP slot
Equipped with a gfx card with TV/composite out the A1 is able to do analog video stuff again - even in truecolor this time. The OS and the applications will still be able to handle PAL/NTSC resolutions perfectly of course.
Ahh, smart. You just needa DECENT TV Out card (most suck, they cant even do Overscan! That's what is so lovely about the Amiga too, de-factor overscan modes )

[quote]
Quote:
I really want to shove up a video of a live performance on my site, but I'm having space problems right now.
[/quote
Do you wan to have it published on a magazine CD? I don't know if they're paying for CD contributions (I doubt it) but we could make a feature about your setup... (as long as it's concentrating on the Amiga ). I could translate the stuff, if you're willing to write something. Like to earn some money with your Amiga experience?
$_$ . As I said, mine is a hybrid PC/Amiga setup. If that's OK with you and/or the mag, I would be delighted to tell what we do at the Corporation with such "obsolete" technology . Might open the eyes of some fuckwits who think these machines are/were useless.
I'd record the next performance and make it really very sweet, and we could use that video
BTW here's the thread where I talked about this setup. You have a couple pictures there too:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5632
Akira is offline  
Old 22 August 2002, 14:58   #111
Oscar Castillo
Junior Member
Oscar Castillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 282
Send a message via AIM to Oscar Castillo
The bottom line in future Amiga development is this.

If any new hardware is not backward compatible or had any new revolutionary hardware in the same manner as when it was first introduced the future doesn't look too bright.
What compelling reason would anyone have to buy this new machine? To now have two distinct Amiga systems each with its own hardware and software probably doesn't look to good right to most Amiga users. Certainly it isn't what most would like.
It's hard to envision that any "Amiga" user would go for such a beast. To do so would mean users are ready to either sever the ties to the old system in favor of a new alien one or they're ready to continue to support two systems.
Amiga users who still actively use their Amigas are looking for a melding of old and new in one box so that then everyone can truly move off of the old hardware without having to worry about losing any investments in software made over the years. Demos, games, utilites should all work as they had in the previous systems, but on something far better and new. Regardless of how good a new Amiga may be, if it doesn't have backward compatability then why should anyone buy this system over a Mac, a PC? Both have a few operating system alternatives to choose from.
I would not even look at a future platform if it weren't backward compatible. And that will be the key to any successful future Amiga. It'll have to take over from where Commodore left off. AGA, then move forward from there. However difficult it may be to create such hardware it has to happen to bring all Amiga users onboard.
Oscar Castillo is offline  
Old 22 August 2002, 17:13   #112
IanS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nottingham England
Posts: 209
Even more wishful thinking

Akira, I'm always happy with a little bit of elucdation, or even some perspicuity. My point is simple. Using your example of Macromedia. They already do stuff for the PC and Mac. If they do exactly the same programs for the A1, what incentive is there to buy an A1, when they already have a PC or Mac on their desk with Macromedia stuff on already? A superior O/S you say... but tell me this. Would the A1 version be any faster under OS4 on an A1, 600mhz G3 than under Apple OS X on a 1ghz+ G4. Are you sure that the Apple O/S (or even Windoze) is that inefficient? Even if the A1 could match speed, people won't suddenly jump ship, because just about any program they will ever need already exists on their PC/Apple. Both these platforms have a 20 year or more head start on the A1. They are well known and that is what counts. Unfortunately, except in limited circles, the Amiga did not become known as a business oriented computer. Rightly or wrongly, the moniker of 'Games machine' stuck with it for too long.

The A1 does not have any revolutionary hardware under the bonnet, unlike the original Amigas. what is going to get Joe Public interested in this new machine if the apps available don't do anything better than their existing hardware?

Small and fast apps are great, if you run them on low powered machines, but look at the size and prices of hard drives and memory. They are not prohibitively expensive like they were in the 1980's. Small is not so critically important these days. If it was, the PC would never have dominated, because (generally) it's major apps have never been small and efficient. You just buy more cheap ram and a cheap, faster processor. Or a new, cheap PC!

Newtek may be supporting the Amiga, but they also produce PC stuff because they know the Amiga market has and still is shrinking.

I still like the Amiga. I'm still proud of it's small, efficient O/S. But it still takes longer to load and process Jpegs and animations, the games don't compete and hardware is very expensive. I want a flicker fixer and scandoubler, but that will set me back 90. Ouch... and the graphics will still be slow. But I still use it some of the time, because I love it to bits :-)
IanS is offline  
Old 22 August 2002, 20:37   #113
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,304
Re: Even more wishful thinking

Quote:
Originally posted by IanS
Even if the A1 could match speed, people won't suddenly jump ship, because just about any program they will ever need already exists on their PC/Apple.
I'm not talking normal people here, I'm talking about classic Amigans

I run a P3-866 and before that I used to run all the macromedia apps in a Pentium 133... A 600 Mhz G3 is more than well equipped for MY needs.

Of course it wouldn't run as smooth as a dual 866 G4 Powermac!
Akira is offline  
Old 22 August 2002, 23:37   #114
IanS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nottingham England
Posts: 209
Classic Amigans? I know there are a lot of us (them?) out there, but how many of those have also invested money in a PC/Apple to supplement or even replace their PC? Will they dump that investment and buy an A1 just because it says "Amiga"?
IanS is offline  
Old 23 August 2002, 06:07   #115
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,304
Clasic Amigans won't. Because, if you have been reading my new definition of "amigans", classic amigans want backwards compatibility. At least in a 60/70% of software.
( <-- a classic amigan, 12:34PM)

Some PC users might want to drop their shitty platform in favour of a nice system that provides good apps and a better, solid OS. This is Twistin's case.
( PC ---> <--- Twistin )


Then there's the user like you who I don't know why wants to get an A1 . Would you leave your PC away and buy the A1? That question you did was aimed towards you, not me! (I'm not an A1 potential buyer anymore)

Do you notice you are going against what you said first?

( IanS --> <-- IanS )
Akira is offline  
Old 23 August 2002, 16:55   #116
IanS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nottingham England
Posts: 209
Ian Bashing

Hi Akira,

I like to play Devils Advocate now and then. I'm trying to look at different views, without necessarily adhering to any one. I think I can see your point of view, but there is a big potential market for the A1, depending on what it has to offer.

To be honest, I've not made my mind up about an A1 yet. Obviously I'm going to wait and see what happens when it appears, complete with O/S and apps etc. I would like one though. Time will tell. I won't get rid of my PC's. I don't love PCs, I don't hate them. They are just another platform to play with and explore. And I play games on them too sometimes. Sad but true. They have good and bad points just like any other comuter. I've noticed that a lot of people can't seperate PC hardware from MS Windoze... and there are GOOD operating systems running on the platform.

More to come soon... :-)
IanS is offline  
Old 24 August 2002, 06:06   #117
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,304
All the fuss you made about us bashing the A1 and now you say you won't buy it, that you will "wait and see"! Please.

I don't like discussing with people who flip from side to side like a pancake, sorry You might enjoy that "game" but I don't.
Akira is offline  
Old 27 August 2002, 10:35   #118
IanS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nottingham England
Posts: 209
Oh pleeeease!

Oh come on Akira, the A1 isn't even available yet. What else can I do but wait? When I can buy an A1 complete eith O/S and at least one useful application, I will check the price and in all likelyhood buy one. You talk about it like it's already available.

You may think I'm playing games, but it's no game. Unlike you, I'm not fixated on one particular view about this or any other computer. You seem to be wearing blinkers, and have such a narrow field of vision. Maybe you should just realise that a computer is just a tool and nothing more. If it does it's job well, use it... otherwise find another.

Life through rose coloured specs... how do you cope?
IanS is offline  
Old 29 August 2002, 04:27   #119
BuZz
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Oxford / UK
Age: 41
Posts: 582
Send a message via ICQ to BuZz
Quote:
Originally posted by Korodny
Sorry to dissapoint you, but my A1 is real - and it works perfectly. [/B]
I think you will find it's a Teron CX.. (The current Dev AmigaOnes are nothing different)

The Final AmigaOne is a Teron CX with a hardware Dongle..

(And they havent even finished/implemented that yet, nor rewritten the bios.. blah blah)

It is truly exciting....

i better also say rich and multimedia and
award winning too..

/me sticks a 1541 up McEwens Arse...
BuZz is offline  
Old 29 August 2002, 04:40   #120
BuZz
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Oxford / UK
Age: 41
Posts: 582
Send a message via ICQ to BuZz
Why are so many people excited about the AmigaOne?

It's has nothing special about it. Infact it's less exciting than
most PC Motherboards. The initial Model will be 600mhz g3, which
is hardly state of the art performance.. the ONLY thing it will have it AmigaOS4 which wont run any hardware banging stuff which I enjoy (Games, Demos etc).

I like PPC but this PPC board is crap. And I doubt they will have sufficient drivers for many PCI cards.

Blah...

Amiga Inc != Amiga imho
BuZz is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted: Amiga SAS/C development package lucadip MarketPlace 3 17 March 2011 18:06
An idea for continued games development... using Amiga Galahad/FLT Amiga scene 91 29 December 2010 12:45
Amiga development freehand Retrogaming General Discussion 4 18 April 2010 18:53
Amiga software development tootoid Amiga scene 22 21 March 2007 19:12
Next-gen Amiga development LaundroMat Coders. General 3 05 October 2002 01:30

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.46322 seconds with 12 queries