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Old 07 March 2011, 09:47   #61
gilgamesh
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Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
just nice to read someone could put it into words
Hey I wrote that in #29 already, and I want a cookie. Now.

Quote:
One study found that users of pirated software sufficiently influenced — by word-of-mouth communication — eighty percent of the software's prospects to buy the legal product and another described several scenarios in which piracy can help increase the sales of legal products.[3] The pirated product functions as a free sample that the innovator does not have to fund.
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obscurity is much worse than piracy
here and here (second one is about books, but I like the punch line)
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Old 07 March 2011, 10:14   #62
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Hey I wrote that in #29 already, and I want a cookie. Now.
But Siggy999 gave such a vived example... ah well, here you go :



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Old 07 March 2011, 10:17   #63
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Ahh, caramel. Nom nom.
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Old 07 March 2011, 10:24   #64
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I always felt dirty shoving unbranded game disks in my Amiga's slot (make of that what you will ).

If I enjoyed a game though I bought it on the premise I was contributing to the developers of said game... if not I formatted the disk.

Also bought games if Amiga Power gave them a good score (they're the only mag I trusted for game reviews back in the day).

In some cases the Cracktro's were better than the games!
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Old 07 March 2011, 11:06   #65
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Just to add another point, I used to work for a large software company and I have never seen so much pirated software go through a company, though apparently its a completely different place to work at these days
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Old 07 March 2011, 11:08   #66
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I always felt dirty shoving unbranded game disks in my Amiga's slot (make of that what you will ).
I can't! This is not OT!

I used to pirate basically everything that was digitally distributable. Only when a game was in major discount or delivered for free with a mag did I not pirate.

Not so anymore. I'd want to pass it off as moral value, but it is actually "external pressure". I'm getting really annoyed and a little worried because of all the threats, the big mouthed organizations that sue everyone left and right and the roadblocks built into the software you have to break through before you can safely use a pirated copy and sometimes there are limitations you'll never lift (usually bound to online services).

So I've given up and have turned into a nice little consumer AKA walking wallet on lease. No more pirated stuff for me, I just pay. And through digital distribution channels it is made incredibly easy for me to pay, so I happily do it. But I still look for those discounts
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Old 07 March 2011, 12:19   #67
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By the time copying/selling copied software became illegal piracy was selling computers in Poland and other former eastern block countries And it sold pretty many units, you can see it on allegro.pl
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Old 07 March 2011, 12:29   #68
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I agree that piracy helps sell the machine to play them on, problem been these days consoles (not that I am calling the Amiga a console want to make that clear) are sold at a loss. I think in general if someone copied a game, they would not then go out and buy but some would, more so if the cracked version was buggered due to bad cracking or disk errors. But I agree I dont think it was piracy to blame for Commodores demise more the running of the company, not saying it didnt help though.
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Old 07 March 2011, 16:33   #69
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Yes, being able to copy games sold loads of Amigas I reckon. Is fairly obvious really.

I actually saw this happen / used as an argument.
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Old 07 March 2011, 17:25   #70
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Old 07 March 2011, 17:29   #71
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Another point was those snivling FAST adverts you used to have, made you want to go out and pirate stuff on princaple.
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Old 07 March 2011, 18:42   #72
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Yes, being able to copy games sold loads of Amigas I reckon. Is fairly obvious really.
I agree on that 100%

But this is in no case a good reason for piracy, while it might help computer/console sellers, it is still harmfull for the software developers who's games gets pirated, because these do not get a cent from what the computer sellers gain from it. You now could advance that but if more computers gets sold then there also are more people to buy software. That is probably true, but facts are that there are much less new people than pirated games, and most of these new people only come because of the "free" pirated games, only a fiew of them will buy non-pirated games.

Last edited by Lord Riton; 07 March 2011 at 18:49.
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Old 07 March 2011, 19:34   #73
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Yeah I know what you're saying, but as people have argued, the stats on piracy are far more complex than the game industry makes out. A pirated copy does not mean one less sale, etc.

My personal example. I bought an Amiga because I knew other people who had one and I knew I'd be able to copy their games. I could have bought a Megadrive at the time but didn't as this was a strong argument against that. Console games cost a lot then.

Yeah I had loads of copied games, but I also ended up buying quite a few. You can argue those purchases came purely because of piracy.
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Old 07 March 2011, 20:13   #74
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Hmm... I honestly can't speak on this issue from any other angle aside from my own personal perspective, since I was way too young at the time to even comprehend the whole 'business' side of the Amiga, e.g. what was going on with Commodore - and I certainly don't know enough about what games sold and what games didn't sell and how this had an impact on the Amiga etc. etc.

What I will say, and this is probably a sad and naff thing to say, is that if it weren't for piracy, I probably wouldn't have used my Amiga a fraction as much - that's a definite fact. I wasn't of the age at that time where I was earning my own money and had a disposable income, and while it is true to say that a game worth playing is a game worth buying, not all games on the Amiga were worth buying. If I was in the position, in some alternate universe, where I was 22 in 1993 instead of 10, I probably would have had no qualms about shelling out full price for something like Pinball Dreams or Turrican 2 - but I probably would have felt rightly ripped off if I'd paid full price for something like Lombard RAC Rally, for example - luckily if one plays the cracked version, they can see how shit it is and not feel out of pocket.

Finally, look at who, exactly, is keeping the Amigas memory here. Certainly not the men in suits from Ocean, it seems (for example). It's funny, but the people that many accuse of killing the Amiga - the crackers, the sceners, are pretty much the ones that are the most interested in preserving the memory of the Amiga, so I don't believe they ever had the intention of 'killing' the Amiga to begin with.

The fact of the matter is - too many people got away with making shitty software, and the machine, as all machines DO, gradually became outdated to the point where other, arguably more superior machines overtook it. The Amiga COULD have stayed ahead of its time, like it was in the late '80s/early '90s, but the ball was fumbled. That had nothing to do with the crackers or the sceners, that was a business thing which was pretty much out of everybody's hands aside from an elite few.
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Old 07 March 2011, 21:34   #75
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Piracy did not kill the Amiga, Commodore did.

The first Amiga was just an incredible machine, ahead of it's time we could almost say, in the line of the C64 or maybe even better a bit than the C64 was when it came out.

When later the amiga AGAs came out (A1200/A4000,..) They were way less powerfull compared to other computers that were out then, like the PC, Atari Falcon or even the Consoles than the Amiga 1000 or A500 were when they came out. That killed the Amiga.

The problem came probably not only from Commodore, it's probably also just the other companies that simply catched up.

They would have needed another "Jay Miner" to bring out such brillant vision of another Amiga to stay ahead of the others.
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Old 07 March 2011, 21:42   #76
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Interesting debate!

On the concept of pirated software helping to promote sales, I definitely think there is substance to this theory.

A few years back, during the period when the play station 1 was just out, a good friend of mine worked at a software house. He used to get promotional copies of software to give away, these used to be sent to shops and reviewers, etc. I always ended up with one. If it was a good game I would tell others, they would then go out and buy it.

In the days of the Amiga, even if 50% of the people I told went out and purchased the game and other 50% pirated it, this promotional copy still helped to make some sales.

Not pirating, but still free copies used for promotion.
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Old 07 March 2011, 21:45   #77
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Originally Posted by tuki_cat View Post
Not pirating, but still free copies used for promotion.
Well, game demos, like we get tons everywhere on the internet today also.. has nothing to do with piracy

A promotional copy is to make the people buy the actual game. A pirated version is the actual game free of charges.
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Old 07 March 2011, 22:05   #78
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Well, game demos, like we get tons everywhere on the internet today also.. has nothing to do with piracy

A promotional copy is to make the people buy the actual game. A pirated version is the actual game free of charges.
True .

I also wonder if the pirating is to do with age, while I may have done it when I was younger (during the late 80s) I don't and wouldn't do it now, maybe I have a social conscious as an adult or just more income, because as a kid it took ages to save for a new game!
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Old 07 March 2011, 22:08   #79
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I couldnt resist:

Many people bought Amiga coz piracy and "games for free" existed, without it they would have spent their money on something else, Amiga without software is like a car without fuel.

I bought Amiga, played many pirate copies and then bought few (less than ten) original games --> profit for Commodore Amiga and games publishers/developers.
With no piracy --> no Amiga bought, no games bought. So wheres the loss?
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Old 07 March 2011, 22:22   #80
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So wheres the loss?
There isn't any loss.. in your case.

If only all pirates were like you
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