English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 05 March 2013, 00:02   #181
amiga_Forever
Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: kkhkj
Posts: 323
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilgamesh View Post
They found the magic bullet that will kill piracy (along the second hand market and everything that is evil) which is cloud based gaming and app stores.
Finding something is good.... Killing it will be harder. since not all will go quietly...
amiga_Forever is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 05 March 2013, 00:06   #182
StingRay
move.l #$c0ff33,throat

StingRay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berlin/Joymoney
Posts: 5,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoltar View Post
Now, a question for everybody: If the Amiga games could have been ROM cartridge based instead of floppy disk, do you think it would have made much of a difference? There are a lot of advantages to using ROM carts besides copy protection, speed and durability would be the main ones that spring to my mind but I think C= may have overlooked something in not giving the Amiga a cartridge port.
It would have made a difference. A lot less people would've bought an Amiga had it been sold as a cartridge only machine. When it comes to piracy though cartridges would not have made any difference since they can be cracked just like "normal" disks too. Where there's a will there's a way. Look at the C64GS (sold in Germany only if memory serves me right) which was a "castrated" C64 with cartridge port only. It failed miserably for obvious reasons.
StingRay is offline  
Old 05 March 2013, 00:10   #183
Galahad/FLT
Going nowhere

Galahad/FLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44
Posts: 6,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by StingRay View Post
It would have made a difference. A lot less people would've bought an Amiga had it been sold as a cartridge only machine. When it comes to piracy though cartridges would not have made any difference since they can be cracked just like "normal" disks too. Where there's a will there's a way. Look at the C64GS (sold in Germany only if memory serves me right) which was a "castrated" C64 with cartridge port only. It failed miserably for obvious reasons.
Quite agree. The MSX tried it and failed miserably, all cartridge games were cracked to disk, if Amiga had gone the same way, that too would have been cracked.
Galahad/FLT is offline  
Old 05 March 2013, 00:14   #184
amiga_Forever
Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: kkhkj
Posts: 323
Cartridges would have made a big difference, but ya, they can easily be ripped, as we have now today with emulation and the Action Reply III


*and I used to use this cartridge too*

oh well...

Would have made it more difficult, for sure.
amiga_Forever is offline  
Old 05 March 2013, 00:21   #185
Galahad/FLT
Going nowhere

Galahad/FLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44
Posts: 6,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by amiga_Forever View Post
Cartridges would have made a big difference, but ya, they can easily be ripped, as we have now today with emulation and the Action Reply III


*and I used to use this cartridge too*

oh well...

Would have made it more difficult, for sure.
It really wouldn't.

I suspect it would have been stupidly easy, getting access to ROM contents, transferring it to RAM, and then copying onto Hard Drive or Floppy in parts.

In fact it would probably have been easier than cracking some of the disc protections out there.
Galahad/FLT is offline  
Old 05 March 2013, 00:26   #186
StingRay
move.l #$c0ff33,throat

StingRay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Berlin/Joymoney
Posts: 5,591
Indeed. Besides, the games would have been even more expensive due to the additional hardware. Cartridges never were any successful way to stop piracy. The only tricky thing about cartridges is the extra memory/hardware that can be used (but rarely was!). But even that can be worked around to a certain extent.
StingRay is offline  
Old 05 March 2013, 00:31   #187
gilgamesh
Linux snob

gilgamesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Monkey Island
Posts: 997
CDs were practically copy proof because of sheer size. It didn't rescue the CD32 or CDTV, though.
gilgamesh is offline  
Old 05 March 2013, 20:52   #188
desiv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 1,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
Maybe before the internet and BBS's it would have, but why bother going out to buy a game when you can download it without leaving your chair?
(I know this is an older post, but I just read it, so..)

For me, because I liked a lot of the original boxes and "stuff" that came with it..

The box art, the posters, the maps, the trinkets, the t-shirts....

I loved that stuff.
(Still have my SoTB T-Shirt.. It isn't looking to good tho..)

desiv
desiv is offline  
Old 06 March 2013, 07:39   #189
dJOS
Registered User

dJOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 856
As a poor Teenager in the late 80's/early 90's there was no way hell I was going to plonk down $90aud for a TripleA Title - when I got my first Playstation my entire game buying strategy was wait for the game to go platinum and then buy for half price from Sony's platinum range.

Imagine how many more sales software publishers would get if they priced their software sensibly in the first place!
dJOS is offline  
Old 06 March 2013, 14:24   #190
daro2096
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Chester-le-Street/UK
Posts: 85
Common sense doesn't apply to software publishers.
daro2096 is offline  
Old 06 March 2013, 14:58   #191
OlafSch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoltar View Post
Some interesting points made here in the thread.

Piracy certainly didn't kill the Amiga. The possibility of getting software either for free, or very cheaply, certainly influenced some people's buying decision when it came getting a games machine. I have friends and family members that did that and I might have even helped sway their opinion. Some years ago, my older sister bought her young son a Playstation in preference over a Nintendo 64 specifically because, at the time, she could get games for 5 each.

I think we must attribute some of the sales of that machine down to the availability of cheap pirated software. And, I would say the same for the Amiga.

That certainly didn't help the game publishers and, in the above example, I think it might not have helped Sony either, in the long run, as they didn't get their cut of the income from the pirated games these people were playing but C='s situation was slightly different because they made dollars purely on selling hardware.

The main reason the Amiga died its death, as a market for selling games in, was the fact the hardware itself was left behind. I think we all know this. The release of the Playstation, perhaps more than any other rival's machine was, I think, the single most devastating blow that killed Amiga games market stone dead. Even if the A1200 had maybe a 28mhz CPU and some Fast RAM as standard (as I think it should have) it wouldn't have made that much difference in the end as the Japanese 32 bit machines offered so much more than would ever be possible even on the most expensive 68060 based machine for considerably less initial outlay.

AGA, whilst AAA would have been so much better, wasn't bad, for the time. C= really needed to have something like Hombre ready in about 1994/5 to have had a hope of competing. It's just a pity that by that time, they'd ran out of money. I'm sadly of the opinion that the Amiga's worst enemy, always was Commodore Business Machines.

The piracy aspect is interesting here too though. Remember that, when the Playstation was released, cheap CD burners didn't exist and so, it was for a time, an almost perfect marketplace for the publishers where everybody had no choice but to buy legitimate copies. And, if you're a company that makes games, which machine would you develop for?

Now, a question for everybody: If the Amiga games could have been ROM cartridge based instead of floppy disk, do you think it would have made much of a difference? There are a lot of advantages to using ROM carts besides copy protection, speed and durability would be the main ones that spring to my mind but I think C= may have overlooked something in not giving the Amiga a cartridge port.

What say you?



SJ
I think it was both. The PC was on the rise and piracy was propably there as high as on the Amiga but the market was much bigger so still enough sales. The second problem was hardware lagging behind. Beginning of 90s was A500 with two floppy discs (without HD) was still standard. Most games were already created for PC and ported to Amiga so the market was not only much smaller but they also had to invest to cut down graphics (from VGA), optimize the games for the slow hardware and make it possible to run the games from discs. So both effects combined killed Amiga as the leading gaming platform.
OlafSch is offline  
Old 06 March 2013, 18:12   #192
Oldskool Bitz
Registered User
Oldskool Bitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 36
Posts: 32


Oldskool Bitz is offline  
Old 06 March 2013, 23:21   #193
dJOS
Registered User

dJOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 856
Quote:
Originally Posted by daro2096 View Post
Common sense doesn't apply to software publishers.
very true
dJOS is offline  
Old 08 March 2013, 15:24   #194
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 35
Posts: 2,235
I'm not sure how you can blame the Playstation when Commodore folded before it was even released.

Many people upgraded their computers to play the PC games of the time such as Doom or Jazz Jackrabbit. In the Amiga world, for some reason games were always coded for the 1mb A500 with no hard drive. Simply laughable compared to the PC specifications of the time.

The Amiga was stuck in the past. People were unwilling to upgrade, and games companies were unwilling to release anything which actually required a decent machine.
Hewitson is offline  
Old 08 March 2013, 18:38   #195
Galahad/FLT
Going nowhere

Galahad/FLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44
Posts: 6,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
I'm not sure how you can blame the Playstation when Commodore folded before it was even released.

Many people upgraded their computers to play the PC games of the time such as Doom or Jazz Jackrabbit. In the Amiga world, for some reason games were always coded for the 1mb A500 with no hard drive. Simply laughable compared to the PC specifications of the time.

The Amiga was stuck in the past. People were unwilling to upgrade, and games companies were unwilling to release anything which actually required a decent machine.
The Playstation was a major factor for the demise of Amiga, Megadrive and SNES. Here was finally a machine that could do it all.

Its why Psygnosis pretty much rush released all the last of their Amiga games in 1994 because it was full steam ahead for Playstation.

Ironic really that when you look back over some Playstation titles and some Amiga titles, the Amiga ones generally have aged better, with no reliance on blocky bitmapped vectors!
Galahad/FLT is offline  
Old 08 March 2013, 19:19   #196
Dunny
Registered User

Dunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Scunthorpe/United Kingdom
Posts: 864
Amusingly, although I used to pirate when I first got the Amiga, I started buying games by the shedload every week when I found a market stall that sold them for a few quid each - all originals too. I rapidly built up a great collection of stuff that way.

Nowadays, I actually pirate far more Amiga software than I ever did back in the day - just the other day I pulled down an entire TOSEC set in just a few hours :-)

D.
Dunny is offline  
Old 09 March 2013, 15:36   #197
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 35
Posts: 2,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
The Playstation was a major factor for the demise of Amiga, Megadrive and SNES. Here was finally a machine that could do it all.

Its why Psygnosis pretty much rush released all the last of their Amiga games in 1994 because it was full steam ahead for Playstation.
I agree about the MD & SNES, but the Amiga was stuffed whether the Playstation existed or not. Very few companies would have continued producing games for a machine that wasn't even made anymore.
Hewitson is offline  
Old 09 March 2013, 16:25   #198
Galahad/FLT
Going nowhere

Galahad/FLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44
Posts: 6,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitson View Post
I agree about the MD & SNES, but the Amiga was stuffed whether the Playstation existed or not. Very few companies would have continued producing games for a machine that wasn't even made anymore.
Not strictly true. You don't ignore a machine with an installed userbase of 4million. Obviously if the sales of games don't reflect the effect of bothering then you ignore.

But Xmas '93, the Amiga was still doing very well, lots of AA titles released, it was effectively the Amigas last big year, its amazing how quickly it stopped.
Galahad/FLT is offline  
Old 09 March 2013, 16:30   #199
TCD
Registered User

TCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 39
Posts: 24,032
Actually 1994 still saw about 400 new non-CD32 commercial titles (it was a bit more than 450 in 1993). In 1995 it went down to 250 for all commercial Amiga releases (including CD32). Just from those numbers, the last year was 1994 for the Amiga...
TCD is offline  
Old 09 March 2013, 16:37   #200
Galahad/FLT
Going nowhere

Galahad/FLT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44
Posts: 6,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
Actually 1994 still saw about 400 new non-CD32 commercial titles (it was a bit more than 450 in 1993). In 1995 it went down to 250 for all commercial Amiga releases (including CD32). Just from those numbers, the last year was 1994 for the Amiga...
"last big year"
Galahad/FLT is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Did piracy kill the amiga? mrbob2 Retrogaming General Discussion 184 04 February 2015 22:13
Piracy - Were you responsible? P-J Nostalgia & memories 127 14 December 2013 00:28
Demobase Amiga Discussion sjakie43 Amiga scene 43 11 June 2010 23:16
EAB/Lemon Amiga Super League Rules Discussion Graham Humphrey EAB's competition 21 05 October 2007 11:22
piracy Jim Nostalgia & memories 39 01 September 2005 15:31

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.39522 seconds with 11 queries