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Old 01 June 2012, 09:16   #41
Bamiga2002
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Originally Posted by amigarobbo View Post
Dosn't like a real 68060 at all, booted from floppy Gurus, loads up fine if card disabled, but a bit on the slow side, probably due to me not being use to 680ec20 speeds
Maybe you need to copy the 060-libs to the disk for it to work and if Setpatch is called in s-s.
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Old 11 August 2013, 00:11   #42
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Was just giving this a try and I can't seem to find the navigation aid that is supposed to be in this version. Is it available at all shipyards? Am I just being a dumbass?

Also, does this version have the fire laser when docked and set speed bugs of the CD32 version. If so I guess I'll prefer to manage without the navigation aid, which I can't find anyway.

Edit:Requires an 020 plus too?

Last edited by jimbob; 11 August 2013 at 00:28.
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Old 08 July 2015, 19:21   #43
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I did a sha256 checksum comparison of 'Frontier' (the game binary), and checksums match with OP release, this is exactly the same as TOSEC:

Frontier - Elite II CD32 v1.10 (1994)(Gametek)(AGA)[cr Interpol][CD32 rip].zip
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Old 09 July 2015, 14:44   #44
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I know this is an old thread, but I tried this updated version not so long ago and also found it to be very slow compared to the original version on my 060. Played it from the hard drive, with the detail turned up to the top the original runs lovely and smoothly whereas this version crawls when there are any more than a few polygons involved. I take it this has never been fixed since, which is a shame...
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Old 09 July 2015, 15:05   #45
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Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
I know this is an old thread, but I tried this updated version not so long ago and also found it to be very slow compared to the original version on my 060. Played it from the hard drive, with the detail turned up to the top the original runs lovely and smoothly whereas this version crawls when there are any more than a few polygons involved. I take it this has never been fixed since, which is a shame...
If by "original" you mean the OCS release (not CD32) from 1993, then there is a problem with the cracks as well.

I tried three different cracks (FLT, ACS, CSL) those available in TOSEC, and if you play long enough and rack up a lot of credits then you will reach "Hi! I'm PoliceOfficer..." manual protection screen after docking and pressing F4, some cracks tell you what key to press, but it fails anyway, because the suggested manual pages are out of bounds. Even the WHDLoad slave fails in the same way for the OCS versions of Frontier Elite II.

My save is from the CD32 version of the game, I don't know if that is triggering the manual protection in earlier OCS versions, but the game accepts the save and seems OK (besides the crack failing).

The latest CD32 releases seem to have working crack (or if the game is unprotected?), but then there are other issues and game bugs instead, mentioned previously in this forum thread. The CD32 release is intended for 68020 CPU, so perhaps some optimization there fails on 060, not sure.

TIP: If you occasionally get 8000000x gurus while playing on real Amiga with accelerator, then make sure you start Frontier with CPU caches off, and 100k stack at least.

In Amiga shell type these commands to launch Frontier.

Code:
stack 128000
cpu nocache
Frontier

Last edited by modrobert; 09 July 2015 at 15:25. Reason: Added tip.
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Old 09 July 2015, 19:22   #46
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Do someone can put back Italy in the Earth model? (there is an urban legend where Braben removed it to complain about high piracy level on the country)
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Old 09 July 2015, 20:20   #47
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Originally Posted by saimon69 View Post
Do someone can put back Italy in the Earth model? (there is an urban legend where Braben removed it to complain about high piracy level on the country)
Yea, everyone knows it is California that falls into the ocean and disappears .
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Old 10 July 2015, 09:58   #48
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saimon69,

If that logic applies in general, then there are a lot of high piracy countries, because many of the world nations are missing from that list.

Regarding some of the "bugs", when they are related to the calculated procedural nature of Frontier, it kind of makes it feel real in a fascinating way.

For example, the autopilot miscalculating gravity close to a rotating docking station, and you just blow up while ramming the hull into the station, is that really a bug? Or is it just hard to predict all the factors in reality also?

Another example is when landing in planet hangar, if you upset the local port police they go crazy and hit the ground in desperate attempts to hit you with their laser weapons (this happened to me in "New San Francisco"), and the more of the police ships that crash into the ground trying to shoot you, the more desperate they get, even looks like they are firing at each other in the inferno, all while you can relax and watch the ordeal safely from your position in the hangar (using rear view). Several minutes later, it quiets down after like 50-100 police space ships have crashed into the ground, you can then pay the fine of 1000 credits and be on your way. Bug or not, it is plausible, in real life situation, that the authorities get so upset their navigation skills are lacking due to the pressure to eliminate me in the light of all their fallen comrades who died trying.

This is what I like about frontier, in a modern game these charming oddities would probably be "fixed", or never occur in the first place because the game is running "on rails" more or less.

Last edited by modrobert; 10 July 2015 at 10:16.
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Old 10 July 2015, 10:00   #49
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Yep, I'm comparing it to the 1993 floppy version. I have the original so no cracks are involved - I just look up the protection code when I get asked. It's the original exe, though it has been patched to add an exit to the OS function, but otherwise works perfectly smoothly as the original exe does.

I don't get any crashes or anything like that, though I haven't played the CD32 version very long because of the speed issue. I might give it another go to see if disabling caches helps, but I doubt it. As for the protection, I don't think the CD32 version would've needed copy protection - copying CDs in 1994 was a lot trickier than copying floppies

It just seems strange that the CD32 version is so slow - I guess there must be some sort of trap or interrupt happening that isn't happening in the old version...

Edit: And to reply to your new post: Yep, it adds a nice feel to the game. Funnily enough though, the docking computer still crashes into the station sometimes in Elite: Dangerous. It gets a huge volume of complaints from players, but I just chuckle, remember that it's just being authentic to the old game, and dock manually
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Old 10 July 2015, 12:52   #50
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Its not really that strange. The CD32 version was never meant to run on anything but a CD32 so it has been optimised for a 68020 processor. There must have been some new additions to this version which the 060 processor isn't too happy about. The 68060 processor didn't even exist on the Amiga when the CD32 version was released so it's no surprise really that there are problems. Oh and the CD32 version has no copy protection at all. It was removed. This has already been mentioned at the start of this thread.
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Old 10 July 2015, 14:29   #51
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The 68060 in general was downwards compatible with the 68020 (and 68000) instructions with no major penalty. What normally caused the big slowdowns were FPU instructions, but of course that can't be the case here. I wonder what instructions could cause such a massive problem that don't affect any other game in the same way that I know of - must be something pretty obscure since from what I can tell here the only big problem should be not taking advantage of the multiple execution units and probably related cache misses. Even without using any of the 060's extra features it should still run rings around the 020, and does for any other game I've tried.

Oh well, it's something I might look into further at some stage for my own curiosity. In the end it's not a big deal since the original exe still works great.
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Old 10 July 2015, 16:59   #52
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If I remember correctly, Sensible World of Soccer also suffers from slowdown on the 68060 so I don't think Frontier is unique in this case. I found this in an old thread aout SWOS:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
The problem is to do with chip ram/dma accessing. Some turbo boards are frankly shit at accessing chip ram and use a stupid amount of dma time up, also your processor is faster and SWOS is heavily blitter orientated.

I have 4 of the 8+ versions converted to use fast ram for the program code and it eliminates the slowdown...... only a few more versions to go and SWOS will play exactly as it did on A5oo.
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Old 10 July 2015, 18:31   #53
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This is what I like about frontier, in a modern game these charming oddities would probably be "fixed", or never occur in the first place because the game is running "on rails" more or less.
oh i don't know, there are plenty of "charming oddities" in modern games...

http://static4.gamespot.com/uploads/...1-11_00006.jpg
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Old 10 July 2015, 19:18   #54
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I don't want to go too OT here, but I am really looking forward to No Man's Sky, because it feels like the spiritual successor to Frontier that Elite: Dangerous maybe isn't completely.
It feels exactly like what was described above, this uncertainty feeling, and the procedural universe... I dunno, sounds cool, but I'll have to play it and see first.
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Old 10 July 2015, 20:00   #55
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I don't want to go too OT here, but I am really looking forward to No Man's Sky, because it feels like the spiritual successor to Frontier that Elite: Dangerous maybe isn't completely.
It feels exactly like what was described above, this uncertainty feeling, and the procedural universe... I dunno, sounds cool, but I'll have to play it and see first.
I completely agree. I'm looking forward to this one as well. I was one of the Kickstarter backers for Elite: Dangerous and I REALLY wish I hadn't backed it now. I spent fooking 150 on a premium boxed edition (which was really nothing special) and I just can't get into the game at all. It feels absolutely nothing like Frontier, although I suppose it is based more on the original than on Frontier but still. I think I played it twice and haven't touched it since. It seems to be totally lacking in everything that made Frontier great. Its like a game with no soul. It feels hollow and without any of the atmosphere that made Frontier a fun universe to explore. No Man's Sky looks genuinely interesting though - especially the unique alien life forms.
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Old 11 July 2015, 00:27   #56
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I'm the same, backed Elite: Dangerous on Kickstarter and wish I hadn't. It is the biggest pile of dung since I don't know when and has nothing to do with Elite at all for me.
No Man's Sky does look interesting and I'm looking forward to it been released.
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Old 11 July 2015, 01:17   #57
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No Man's Sky has the art style I love - it's basically a game set in 1960s Larry Niven Sci-fi book covers.

Sold, on that alone.

D.
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Old 11 July 2015, 01:46   #58
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I'm also looking forward to Limit Theory, I backed that on Kickstarter too. The developer disappeared for a while due to health reasons but is back now and working on the beta release. It does look quite nice from the video's that I've seen.
Have been lacking a good space/science fiction game for years now, I was hoping Elite: Dangerous would fill that gap but it just turned out to be Braben's personal procedural generation MMO experiment and nothing else. What a waste!
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Old 11 July 2015, 08:07   #59
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oh i don't know, there are plenty of "charming oddities" in modern games...

http://static4.gamespot.com/uploads/...1-11_00006.jpg
Yes, you are right.

I remember that "bug" in Fallout 3 where an NPC character who is supposed to give you a couple of missions in Megaton is found dead on the ground, all you can do is loot his body. Reading the bug report it states something like "he sometimes fall off a bridge in Megaton and die". Should this be fixed? I'm not so sure. The whole notion of AI controlled characters actually having a life while you are "not watching" is just too cool to fix.
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Old 12 July 2015, 16:07   #60
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Yes, you are right.

I remember that "bug" in Fallout 3 where an NPC character who is supposed to give you a couple of missions in Megaton is found dead on the ground, all you can do is loot his body. Reading the bug report it states something like "he sometimes fall off a bridge in Megaton and die". Should this be fixed? I'm not so sure. The whole notion of AI controlled characters actually having a life while you are "not watching" is just too cool to fix.
Yeah, that's a recurring thing in the Bethesda games. It happened to me in Oblivion, I got to a place where I was supposed to talk to an NPC and said NPC was good and dead.
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