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Old 23 June 2001, 23:16   #1
Shatterhand
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The future of games : By Microsoft

I thought you guys would find this interesting, I readed in newspaper 2 or 3 weeks ago, about the E3 and stuff, and there's a "nice" thing said by the vice-president of the games division from Microsoft

they asked him "What do you think about the future of gaming?"

his answer was more or less like that:

"I could say the future of gaming is online gaming, but that would be easy. I believe in a near future, the most important guy in the production of the game will be the graphic artist, there will be less work for the coders, as companies will battle for the best looking games. Games will be produced by a big team, directed by one guy, it will be like the movies industry. You won't see many games made by a lonely guy in the basement of his house. This future will be considered the golden age for gaming"


Well, maybe he doesn't know we already have our own golden age for gaming

anyway, while I believe we really won't see many games from a lonely guy, I believe the best games are usually made by small teams. When you have huge teams, usually the guys don't know each other, they have different ideas, and the game just won't have an identy... I only know one guy who is 'Director' of games, it's Hideo Kojima from Konami, and he has 2 sucessfull series of games, "Metal Gear" and "Snatcher" ... and still he always work with a small team (and usually the same team)

And don't forget some REAL classics came from those guys programing lonely in the basemente of their house (What about Elite, or Andrew Braybook or Archer MacLean games?
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Old 24 June 2001, 00:17   #2
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Coding games is a dead art these days.

Any coder on the Amiga tried to squeeze every fucking scanline out of some code to get it run faster. On the PC you don't need to do that, you just stick the minimum requirements up to a P3 800.

It's all processor and graphic card speed these days, and that killed the art of coding as far as I am concerned - along with the DirectX API.

Just think what the Amiga could be capable with if there was a 800mhz CPU.
 
Old 24 June 2001, 02:36   #3
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I agree completely with Keph here.... I love the bits of work that came from Europe back then. Euro coders always knew how to code well, optimized, excellent pieces of code. They had limited machines so they worked with the limitations and pushed the hardware they used sky high. I love hardware milking

About that Microsoft statement, I dont find that exact part very amusing, but I did find scary this bit:

Quote:
I believe in a near future, the most important guy in the production of the game will be the graphic artist, there will be less work for the coders, as companies will battle for the best looking games
What the FUCK is that?? This means we won't get games anymore... Let's all go back to Dragon's Lair, and watch a barely interactive demo. I rather watch a demo by Blasphemy than having to pay for such a fucking thing. This shows us how teh industry thinks nowadays. It's sadly true, but most of the stupid consumers just make it worse.

I just hope his 'golden age' just means that the games industry goes down like hell, so we have a rebirth of it all. I want garage coding back ;/ All this shit must DIE before we can get gaming back. But today's kids buy games depending on its graphics. Pathetic. Oh yeah, kids are right. FUCK that. That's why I stuck with retrogaming methinks.

Argh this got me pissed off!
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Old 24 June 2001, 03:06   #4
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I always say that, imagine an Amiga with 800 Mhz processor and 128 Mbytes of ram.. it would be the KILLER..

Today I was telling the history of gaming to a friend of mine, how everything started with Space Wars, then we had Pong, and those things, and I said "in near future, people will notice they are paying for endless clones of clones games, only getting better gfx, and then a small machine will born, and people will get back to the old days, everyone will buy this small machine and as usual, the whole history will repaeat"

Then I thought... maybe this small machine already exists..... what about the GBA?

The GBA has the power of nintendo behind it, and KIDS will buy it, then maybe the KIDS will discover the true of gameplay, will forget about those crap games we have today, then they will start looking for Amigas for the best expeirence in 2D gaming, and Amigas will start selling by the bucketload, and new Amigas will appear with the said 800 Mhz processor and 128 Megabytes, and people will use it to make crap 3D games....

It makes sense, doesn't?
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Old 25 June 2001, 09:50   #5
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Unhappy Future's end

From the moment on Mickey$oft announced they would produce the X-box I foresee strange scenarios about this console.

I think the X-Box will be a basic console which will run many games in its first year. But once Mickey$oft has a huge marketshare in the consoles market the true nature of this box of Pandora will be revealed: Once the gamesplayer wants to play a new better-than-reality multi-player game in extreme high resolution he is forced to fork out $$ for additional hardware.
"You want this game to run? -Buy X-Box advanced graphics station 2.05 Beta today" or "You have finished the first level of the game? Buy our exclusive licence for levels 2-4. Please note the game will not be playable past 12-12-2002".
Just read my words.. This scenario could become realistic sooner than anyone expects.

About the gamesindustry in general: last week I saw a program on TV about the French software industry (UBI Soft, Callisto Entertainment, Cryo) and they recruted students from arts academies. These students can get any job they want and they can earn up to Fl 10.000 a month ($ 5000). This is totally insane!
The attention graphic artists get is outragous. I think this will not change in the near future. Processors still get faster and consumers are still willing to fork out many $$ for a nice looking piece of software with zero lastability. As long as people can earn millions of dollars in this industry their behaviour towards more playability will not change.
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Old 25 June 2001, 15:34   #6
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I would not have wanted the Amiga any other way. It's perfect. Processor speed, as you say, is worth pants if you cant code a fun and playable game. And good music is just as important. Damn those Amiga mods rock! I could listen to 'em all day.
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Old 25 June 2001, 19:10   #7
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I have to disagree a bit about the comparison between the Lynx and the GBA. The GBA is crearly a more advanced machine. I own both machines and I know what I talk about

Teh Lynx, however, is still impressive. It's been released, as you say, 12 years ago, and it has an amazing quality today, nonetheless. Though they should have upped the number of colros on screen a wee bit, the rest is gorgeous. You can say good ole Mr. Minter took part on this project, the Lynx is a sclose as a mini-Amiga as you can get. Try Shadow of the Beast. It's the BEST version out there, IMO.

I believe the GBA can bring back cool games. Look at the games lineup, we already have a good number of 2D platformers, a genre that was quite dead until today!

Bring back the pixels
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Old 26 June 2001, 03:34   #8
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Teh speed really does not matter. A 7+ MHz Amiga could push as much on screen as a 25 MHz 386... And teh fact that you are comparing a CISC to a RISC procesor, adds to the equation in favour of the GBA I don't think it is underpowered, what do you want in there, 3D games? NO THANKS

Teh Lynx, afaik, can push 16 on-screen. It has a palette of 4096, just like the Amiga, but can't put' em all in there at once, just like the AMiga (not counting HAM mode of course). It features stuff as copperbanding, etc., that makes it look just like an Amiga. Believe me, check out SotB for a shock

Teh PSOne LCD screen is complete garbage. A step (quite a few really) back in technology.

PS: Just found out, the GBA's 32 bit RISC processor, really runs at 33 Mhz, not 16 and OI! Who deleted your post???? Damn strange!

Last edited by Akira; 26 June 2001 at 20:07.
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Old 26 June 2001, 23:31   #9
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Gee...gee..great thread:laugh
You know, i have posted this theme on a similar thread at Home of the Underdogs forum a while back...anyway, i'd like to add my 2 cents if I may
The state of PC gaming is woeful. The VAST majority of games out are either sickening FPS, like Unreal or the miserable ilk, or Command and Conquer clones...all the genres I like are dying..the adventures, turn based strategy, good RPGs, they are giving way to pseudo versions of these that are eye candy, mind numbing, easy on the brain crap. There are still good flight sims, thank goodness, but less every year.
It seems that the lowest common denominator is taking hold in the PC gaming industry, as it did long ago in the console market. The age of people gaming on PC's is a factor, as well as greedy corporate types, who know zilch about gaming.
Back in the days, it took real coders, thinkers.....to make a game, so they appreciated the nuances of making a game..thinking games. The Amiga , c-64, Atari etc era was a true golden age.

Nowadays, we are inundated by shallow graphics, weak plot and really bad choices. this is a reason why i love retrogaming.
As for the less mind-challenging games of old, i loved them too, for a change of pace. The old Sega and Nes era was awesome as well!! At least the games had personality and heart....sigh...
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Old 02 July 2001, 18:47   #10
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Gfx most important? Hmm..

I wouldn't think gfx will compell people to buy games that much, and especially not the mass public. Apparently, this mass audience falls for games such as The Sims, instead of the new 64-bit textured triple-anti-aliased 50k polygon per nano-second pushing FPS. In any case, the video-game industry is getting more and more comparable to the movie-industry. Lots of complete BS appearing on the screen, but here and there you'll find a true gem or at least an enjoyable game/movie.

On the X-Box. My guess is that it will be the first console to introduce the wonderful downloadable patches. I am sure one of the main reasons to equip it with a standard net connection and a hard disk, is because developers will be able to go the PC way and release unfinished games. Other console builders (Sony, Sega, Nintendo) have a tradition of keeping to a very strikt Quality Assurance scheme, but MS.... The PC games they have published up till now haven't always been without bugs screaming for a patch. I'm sure they'll continue that way.

(Needless to say, I just hate the thought of MS entering the console market. It's the rich-kid-who-wants-it-all-to-seem-cool-but-simply-isn't-syndrome).
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Old 02 July 2001, 19:15   #11
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The X-Box is pathetic. If they take over the market, which I doubt, you can expect gaming to be over.

Man, I'd even buy a PS2 before an X-Box. NOw that the Dreamcast production has stopped, the PS2 seems to be getting a rosier lineup of games. We'll see, I still think the Gamecube would be my new console of choice.

Laundro, was the bit about patches ironic? Because I don't find any goodness in having to buy a game to patch it afterwards... I men, fuck, erlease teh game when it's complete. Quality assurance is a MUST a lot of developers don't take into account, specially in the PC 'games' market. Nintendo should up their quality assurance a bit in the US, they are being too leunant (mispeleld for sure) in the GBA section, just like they were with the GBC (which got one cool game after 30 crap ones)
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Old 02 July 2001, 20:45   #12
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I think having a console with the ability to update/patch a game is a great idea.

Quality control is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. On a console you don't have to worry about the hundreds of graphic cards and sound cards, you just have the one set of processors. How difficult is that to do?! Just like coding an Amiga is fact so it's not difficult to get games working is it?

I would give Counter Strike/Strike Force as a good example of how successful this is. Free mods for a commercial game.

As for the debate on the X-Box...Yep it's shite, but I wonder how many criticised Sony/Nintendo/Atari for moving in the direction Microsoft are?

I ain't exactly a fan of Microsoft, but give me an alternative? Linux? No thanks I love Photoshop to much but I do use linux in work on the web server.

On the matter of Windows, give Win2000 a try. It's never crashed on me since I installed it a year ago. Highly reliable and XP looks even better.

I would agree that games are just clones of other games, but what do you expect. You think coders are going to write their own 3D Enviroments, or license the Quake/Unreal engine to save time and money? Tough choice for shite software companies who want quick returns.
 
Old 02 July 2001, 21:38   #13
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Of course, having one specification would mean you don't need to patch as often, so the X-Box games wouldn't need a patch, but I BET that you will be needing patches even if you just have to cope with a nominal hardware platform. Why? Because the coders involved are complete twats who think 'okay, I acn't get this to work, but no problem, I'll release a patch afterwards'. This is a bad attitude.

The idea (the one at least I have) about quality assurance, is checking every game to see fi it's arse or not. That's what Nintendo does, if a game sucks they don't want it i their console, do they? Letting everyone program for a machine can damage it.
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Old 05 March 2002, 08:30   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khephren
I ain't exactly a fan of Microsoft, but give me an alternative? Linux? No thanks I love Photoshop to much but I do use linux in work on the web server.
Have you ever tried Photogenics 5.0? It might break you of that bad Photoshop habit and it is available on Amiga, Linux, PocketPC & Windows.

www.paulnolan.com
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Old 05 March 2002, 13:58   #15
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Patches & such

@ Akira: The patching thing wasn't meant ironically, it was just an observation. Which doesn't mean that I wouldn't hate to see unfinished games being released.

@ Khephren: You're talking about additional content, not patches in the strict sense of the word. It's obvious that mods, additional levels, etc etc would be a great use of the net connection of consoles. In fact, I'm looking forward to seeing some good stuff arrive for my PS2.

In any case, it seems the MS reign is little by little wearing out. Apparently, the X-Box undersold enormously in Japan ("Japanese gamers are the most sophisticated", sez Bill), and the direction the antitrust trial is taking deeply worries the Redmond Beast.

Lots of time has been lost since the establishment of MS.. I've always wondered what the computer world would have looked like if they hadn't seized 95% of the market. Think about it, it's unimaginable. Which is not a good thing.
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Old 05 March 2002, 15:40   #16
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Re: Patches & such

Quote:
Originally posted by LaundroMat
Lots of time has been lost since the establishment of MS.. I've always wondered what the computer world would have looked like if they hadn't seized 95% of the market. Think about it, it's unimaginable. Which is not a good thing.
I think about this a lot, too. Actually, it's been on my mind for the better part of the last 7 years.

Technology has been crippled tremendously because of the M$ seizure (hey, nice pun!) and we have come to expect inferiority and mediocrity as if there are/were no alternatives. Like with desktop video, for example: The only serious change in this field is uncompressed data. Beyond that, it's all old-hat stuff that was being done on the Amiga Toaster Flyer back in 1995. If anything, it's gotten choppier since it is, after all, running on bloated Windows.

I think the more compelling question at hand is how long (if at all) will it take to fix this mess?
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Old 05 March 2002, 17:29   #17
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Hmmm...

Well, seems as if Microsoft are displaying an inability to know how to make a good game!

Psygnosis were in the enviable position for a long time that graphics sold a game, that was until other software companies caught up and did the same graphics but with gameplay.

Lets face it, the first 14 or so Psygnosis games were shit! But flashy graphics and intros and music sold the games by the shipload.

Playstation had the benefits of Psygnosis's abilities, but many people got bored with the Playstation quite quickly. Whilst every knows the Saturn wasn't quite as hot as the Playstation at the 3d stuff, in the 2d arena, the Saturn wiped the floor with the Playstation.

Most of the best games came out on Saturn and Dreamcast, even magazines were admitting that a lot of the Dreamcast versions were better, but the damage was already done to Sega.

Sony now realised that they have to concentrate on games as a whole package, not 'wow look at that'.

Frankly, I am happy that Microsoft is choosing the direction they are going in, because they have kinda totally missed the point about consoles......

I don't want to have to defrag the hard drive on my console, I dont give a fuck about the extra storage ability, I will just stick another CD in there, I certainly don't give a fuck about adding updates to games (unless of course I want to use that route for piracy/cracking), but that suggests that the game was rushed out in the first place!

I don't much like Sony, but I dislike Microsoft more...... I just wanna plug in and play....... except that concept as far as the X-Box goes is merely a soundbite!
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Old 06 March 2002, 16:25   #18
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Question

If I'm not mistaken,isn't X-box's 3D driven by DirectX? If so, there will be the first area/"patch" that will ever feature on a console!

But toally agree on the factor about the "looks vs gameplay" comments.
In a sense it might be hypocritical for the longtime Amigafans to be talking about this as in the early days several Amiga titles DID look better but played like crap as Galahad said. But it worked in phases,& things improved,when like the C64, stuff released later in it's life was technically great,but played just as well.

But I fear Twistin's comments are also true. "Mickeysoft",wan't to head in the direction of "subscription" for the O/S & apps in the future,why not earn a moneyspinner in the games area too.

The other concern is,for all the knowledge that the Dragonslair Space Ace type Readysoft games were crud to play,how many of them were released? Unfortunately,those types of titles will sell regardless just because they look good.
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Old 07 March 2002, 14:49   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by 7-Zark-7
If I'm not mistaken,isn't X-box's 3D driven by DirectX? If so, there will be the first area/"patch" that will ever feature on a console!
The PS2's DVD playback drivers have been patched as well (if you buy the DVD remote control, a CD with the updated drivers is included).
But I don't see a problem there. Consoles are fully functional upon release, and as eg DVD specs tend to evolve, it's good to have the possibility to be able to update the DVD software within. Other things can be updated too, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some nice things happening in the future (HDTV support maybe?)

(Edit: HDTV?! What am I on? I don't even have a 16:9 TV...)
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Old 07 March 2002, 22:50   #20
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Re: Hmmm...

Quote:
Originally posted by Galahad/FLT
in the 2d arena, the Saturn wiped the floor with the Playstation.
Indded, it still does! LOts of great 2D games were released in Japan, up to the year 1999 f Im not mistaken...

teh 3D hardware stuff in teh Saturn was rushed at a late stage, when they saw what the PSX was doing. hey should have forgotten about that and focused in polishing the 2D power a bit more...

Still, a great machine.
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