English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > News

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 13 October 2012, 14:41   #1681
Mr B
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leffmann View Post
You have your pockets full of people's money, and all they have is effectively a piece of electronics junk.
He's got my money. Does he have any of yours? Anyway, junk, signifies not working, and the fact is, they do work. Anyone not able to get it working, at all, will most likely have trouble using the software to configure it as well, and should either make sure they got a means to get visuals, or return their product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leffmann View Post
You raise your prices to make people refrain from returning said junk after they realize it may never work properly.
I would think a buyer, such as me, would be rather upset if i return my hardware thanks to the return policy he has. 3 months later the software comes out, and he sells me my own product back to me, for a higher price. I'd be pissed of like none other. Telling us before hand that prices will / may go up to cover increased costs is the least he can do when expanding the return policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leffmann View Post
Some of your hardware has flaws that require motherboards to be modified.
I think you got this backwards. Following the schematics for the Amiga, some Amigas have erroneous components, either wrong stuff in place, stuff in place where there should be no stuff, or no stuff where there should be stuff. Jens built hardware that works with the spec, if the hardware it ends up in conjunction with is out of spec, all he can do is help get it sorted. As far as i can tell, he did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leffmann View Post
Some have been reported to be unstable and prone to overheating.
Some have reported that Jens provided the hardware to fix this issue, at no extra cost. Others fixed it them-self, and never made a support claim with Jens. What do you want, everyone, regardless of if they have issues, should get a fix, for all possible issues?

Quote:
Originally Posted by prowler View Post
That is for Jens to judge. The only posts I removed yesterday were either repeating what had already been alleged or were disrespectful to EAB moderation policy.
No offense, but this has to be wrong. It's up to the mods to judge, Jens can (and should) have an opinion, and report offensive posts, but the forum isn't Jens personal playground. (No offense meant to Jens, or EAB) There has to be a clear line, where the forum mods tend to the forum, and Jens tends to his brand.
Of-course, seeing as his brand is of high interest to us, we are all willing to do a little extra effort, but it cant be to the point where anything Jens says, goes. (And quite honestly, we all know it's not like that. I'm just commenting on what your statement seams to say, rather then current policy's Prowler.)

People have issues with Jens products, and their reliability. 3 out of a unheard total number is not a high return rate, and on top of that, the returns weren't even DOA's, but mostly user error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roy bates View Post
can anyone return there indi on the grounds the product is incomplete?
Jens has said "yes", the buyer has to open a claim with the reseller. I'm guessing he's paying the restocking fee, not sure who gets to pay return shipping.

Last edited by prowler; 13 October 2012 at 15:12. Reason: Damage limitation.
Mr B is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 13 October 2012, 15:10   #1682
roy bates
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: birmingham
Age: 49
Posts: 2,824
thank you Mr B.



but i need jens to answer,its more than likely the customers pays return shipping but i dont want to guess.
roy bates is offline  
Old 13 October 2012, 15:21   #1683
prowler
Global Moderator

prowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sidcup, England
Posts: 10,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by prowler View Post
That is for Jens to judge. The only posts I removed yesterday were either repeating what had already been alleged or were disrespectful to EAB moderation policy.
No offense, but this has to be wrong. It's up to the mods to judge, Jens can (and should) have an opinion, and report offensive posts, but the forum isn't Jens personal playground. (No offense meant to Jens, or EAB) There has to be a clear line, where the forum mods tend to the forum, and Jens tends to his brand.
Of-course, seeing as his brand is of high interest to us, we are all willing to do a little extra effort, but it cant be to the point where anything Jens says, goes. (And quite honestly, we all know it's not like that. I'm just commenting on what your statement seams to say, rather then current policy's Prowler.)
It is up to Jens to decide whether that post is offensive to the point that it should be removed or not. Many would agree with the sentiments expressed in Leffmann's post and it has been allowed to stand both with that in mind and in the interests of healthy debate.

I do not embody EAB's current moderation policy; I merely execute it on behalf of RCK, the EAB administrator by whom I was appointed.
prowler is offline  
Old 13 October 2012, 15:42   #1684
Schoenfeld
electricky.
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: out in the wild
Posts: 1,250
roy bates, Leffman, others,

Although I am the developer, the one who made the thing and who is ultimately responsible for providing a working product, I have given significant margin to the resellers in order to handle retail things. You're not my direct customer, which is also why you don't get direct support. You choose your reseller based on whatever you like - maybe on the way they handle returns.

All I can influence is the way I'm dealing with my resellers. They have the clear signal that any *complete* unit that arrives here will be refunded. This is because I'm sure that I'll get those units to work, and all of them will be compatible with the config tool and the new cores that we'll start working on on monday. Once again: The config tool is in a state where you can make lots of adjustments, but the core can't deal with all these numbers yet. Now that Chameleon Beta-8 has been released (and those customers have also been waiting for quite some time!), resources are free to turn to Indivision AGA MK2.

In any case, I'll do my best to make everyone a satisfied customer. However, I'm not "threatening" anyone. I would really like to know who is claiming to having made a survey that results in a percentage of DOA units of my products. An apology like "I pulled that number out of..." would of course also do.

Hints at another product that any customer did not get to work may seem off-topic here, but I'm not afraid of answering them. I guess Leffman has been talking about the ACA1231, which had to be returned for a logic update and installation of a cooler. I already mentioned the following on a1k.org: If anyone has an unstable setup with an ACA1231, send it for service, but don't go badmouthing my products. I am willing and capable of getting the accelerator to a stability level where you won't be able to crash it with software that works on another comparable system (that is: CPU/MMU/Ram configuration). As with the Flickerfixers, any returns are handled through your reseller.

I'm human, I make mistakes. However, I have a track record of cleaning up my mess. There is no reason to question if this is going to happen for current products.

The current badmouthing and complaints seem like attempts of becoming the one who "pushed hard enough", and "finally something happened". Guys, this is not working: I have already told everyone here that it's on the agenda for monday. It's saturday. You won't change the agenda. You only piss me off.

Jens
Schoenfeld is offline  
Old 13 October 2012, 16:01   #1685
roy bates
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: birmingham
Age: 49
Posts: 2,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
roy bates, Leffman, others,

Although I am the developer, the one who made the thing and who is ultimately responsible for providing a working product, I have given significant margin to the resellers in order to handle retail things. You're not my direct customer, which is also why you don't get direct support. You choose your reseller based on whatever you like - maybe on the way they handle returns.

All I can influence is the way I'm dealing with my resellers. They have the clear signal that any *complete* unit that arrives here will be refunded. This is because I'm sure that I'll get those units to work, and all of them will be compatible with the config tool and the new cores that we'll start working on on monday. Once again: The config tool is in a state where you can make lots of adjustments, but the core can't deal with all these numbers yet. Now that Chameleon Beta-8 has been released (and those customers have also been waiting for quite some time!), resources are free to turn to Indivision AGA MK2.

In any case, I'll do my best to make everyone a satisfied customer. However, I'm not "threatening" anyone. I would really like to know who is claiming to having made a survey that results in a percentage of DOA units of my products. An apology like "I pulled that number out of..." would of course also do.

Hints at another product that any customer did not get to work may seem off-topic here, but I'm not afraid of answering them. I guess Leffman has been talking about the ACA1231, which had to be returned for a logic update and installation of a cooler. I already mentioned the following on a1k.org: If anyone has an unstable setup with an ACA1231, send it for service, but don't go badmouthing my products. I am willing and capable of getting the accelerator to a stability level where you won't be able to crash it with software that works on another comparable system (that is: CPU/MMU/Ram configuration). As with the Flickerfixers, any returns are handled through your reseller.

I'm human, I make mistakes. However, I have a track record of cleaning up my mess. There is no reason to question if this is going to happen for current products.

The current badmouthing and complaints seem like attempts of becoming the one who "pushed hard enough", and "finally something happened". Guys, this is not working: I have already told everyone here that it's on the agenda for monday. It's saturday. You won't change the agenda. You only piss me off.

Jens


thankyou.
roy bates is offline  
Old 13 October 2012, 18:03   #1686
Mr B
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 749
Quote:
Originally Posted by prowler View Post
It is up to Jens to decide whether that post is offensive to the point that it should be removed or not. Many would agree with the sentiments expressed in Leffmann's post and it has been allowed to stand both with that in mind and in the interests of healthy debate.
That was exactly what i was aiming at, and the ground for a healthy forum. I've only been here for a couple of years, but so far this seams healthy enough, so it was what i expected.
Mr B is offline  
Old 13 October 2012, 18:15   #1687
bbond007
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: MIAMI/USA
Posts: 72
Please give Jens a break so that he will continue to make products for the Amiga community. Some of this quibbling over things like shipping is ridiculous. If you have the disposable income for NEW stuff for 20 year old computer (which was questionable build quality originally when new) then you can pay a little shipping...

Would people had preferred he waited until the software was complete to entirety before releasing the MK2?

For me, I appreciated getting the MK2 early because it was essential to determine how the whole thing was going to fit together and was able to complete my A1200. I have a lot of stuff, FastATA, Lyra2, etc...

Last edited by bbond007; 13 October 2012 at 18:30.
bbond007 is offline  
Old 13 October 2012, 18:34   #1688
roy bates
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: birmingham
Age: 49
Posts: 2,824
as far as i know no-one is quibbling over shipping costs.
roy bates is offline  
Old 13 October 2012, 18:40   #1689
groundplayer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Finland
Posts: 57
Jens has done a great favour to any amiga user providing great new hardware . I personally own Aca1231 and Indi MK2 and i'am very pleased with my products. I sincerely Thankyou Jens all the work you have done for the Amiga community so far
groundplayer is offline  
Old 13 October 2012, 22:07   #1690
BarryB
Amigaholic

 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 2,701
Having spoke to Amigakit at Play Expo today, they told me any problems with Jens flicker fixers they will try their best to resolve, they had nothing bad to say about Jens or his products, why would they? On the strength of that conversation I'm now quite happy to wait for the config tool knowing if there are problems I can rely on Amigakit to do their best to help.
BarryB is offline  
Old 13 October 2012, 22:34   #1691
Retrofan
Ruler of the Universe

Retrofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lanzarote/Spain
Posts: 5,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbond007 View Post
Would people had preferred he waited until the software was complete to entirety before releasing the MK2?
You are absolutely true. Now you are posting and posting complaining about the software, but then we were complaining and complaining posting that he had to start selling it

EDIT: I can't stop thinking about Diablothe. Coudn't you leave him banned just 2 months? Forever it's too much. As someone said "Everyone has a bad day"... You don't have to answer, just talk with him. Well, ok you know more than I know.

Last edited by Retrofan; 24 February 2013 at 01:01.
Retrofan is offline  
Old 15 October 2012, 08:27   #1692
papa_november
Registered User
papa_november's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: California
Posts: 183
Hey guys, remember the Catweasel? You know, the floppy controller that was supposed to get 64-bit drivers sometime last decade?

Whatever happened to that?

I mean, I'm not even mad about it anymore. I bought it five or so years ago, and I still use it, even though I basically had to build an entire PC around it to get it working. It's just that support for so much more was promised besides PC/C64 floppy support, like Mac/Apple ][ disks and Atari single-density disks, and none of that ever materialized. It was just sort of forgotten after the five people that bought the thing got tired of waiting and just went back to managing their floppies the way they used to.

It doesn't matter anymore because modern motherboards don't really have PCI slots anymore, and because the Kryoflux has pretty much replaced the Catweasel at the moment (though sadly the people behind it don't think generic write support is a priority but that's my problem not theirs), so nobody is really holding whoever was responsible for writing the drivers for that to their commitments anymore.

Point is, the Invidision Mk. II is going to have a long way to go before it becomes a real boondoggle. I bought a Mk. I even though I'd sunk more money than I would have liked to think about into a previous Icomp product, and after a few minor snags it really did work as advertised.

I don't think Jens is keen on repeating the disaster that was the Catweasel. I don't think the Mk. II is going to wind up being as bad, if only because there's a lot more customers on the line. All we wanted was more Mk. Is, and instead of more Mk. Is we're getting what will hopefully, someday, be an even better product.

Last edited by papa_november; 15 October 2012 at 08:35.
papa_november is offline  
Old 15 October 2012, 09:13   #1693
Schoenfeld
electricky.
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: out in the wild
Posts: 1,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa_november View Post
Hey guys, remember the Catweasel? You know, the floppy controller that was supposed to get 64-bit drivers sometime last decade?
64-bit drivers for the Catweasel were never advertised. If you've bought the unit after seeing such an advert, you still have the right to return the product - today!

Jens
Schoenfeld is offline  
Old 15 October 2012, 10:50   #1694
roy bates
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: birmingham
Age: 49
Posts: 2,824
I can't stop thinking about Diablothe. Coudn't you leave him banned just 2 months? Forever is too much. As someone said "Everyone has a bad day"... You don't have to answer, just talk with him. Well, ok, you know more than I know.


I was there, and I dont think he is a bad person either, but he already had a temporary ban in place which escalated rapidly even furhter (not really for me to go into details).


The guy's frustration turned into anger which got the better of him, basically. It's out of our hands now. For all we know he might not even want to come back, or even if the moderators want him back, or the site for that matter.

Last edited by prowler; 15 October 2012 at 21:25.
roy bates is offline  
Old 15 October 2012, 10:53   #1695
Methanoid
Retired Quartex Sysop
Methanoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Roman Verulamium
Age: 52
Posts: 1,684
I find myself more and more irritated by the comments on this thread.

Really guys, if you have an issue, contact your reseller or Jens but stop bitching like 5 year old girls. If you don't like Jens' products or support or whatever, don't buy them. Of course its not like anyone else is developing new products is it? Keep up the bitching and you'll have an even wider choice of suppliers!!!

Or, develop your own products like Kipper2k...
Methanoid is offline  
Old 15 October 2012, 11:12   #1696
paulo_becas
Registered User
paulo_becas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Porto/Portugal
Age: 42
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methanoid View Post
I find myself more and more irritated by the comments on this thread.

Really guys, if you have an issue, contact your reseller or Jens but stop bitching like 5 year old girls. If you don't like Jens' products or support or whatever, don't buy them. Of course its not like anyone else is developing new products is it? Keep up the bitching and you'll have an even wider choice of suppliers!!!

Or, develop your own products like Kipper2k...
Amen brother
paulo_becas is offline  
Old 15 October 2012, 12:18   #1697
moijk
License to Bubble

moijk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Grimstad, Norway
Age: 40
Posts: 293
Jens Rock!

I don't mean it in a small way, I mean it in a himalaya-way.

There are no person in the Amiga community that by announcing his new plans get me more excited. While they don't come cheap, one is free to buy the old stuff if that floats ones boat. And while it isn't always without hassles, i can't think of much amiga stuff that greatly enhances the experience that is hassle free.
moijk is offline  
Old 15 October 2012, 16:44   #1698
Yarc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: England
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methanoid View Post
I find myself more and more irritated by the comments on this thread.

Really guys, if you have an issue, contact your reseller or Jens but stop bitching like 5 year old girls. If you don't like Jens' products or support or whatever, don't buy them. Of course its not like anyone else is developing new products is it? Keep up the bitching and you'll have an even wider choice of suppliers!!!

Or, develop your own products like Kipper2k...
I agree with this. My initial concern was that we had not heard why there had been a delay on the AGA MkII software. This has now been explained after others and myself had posted, which is a good thing for all of us. Also, I have come back to the Amiga world after many many (too long!) years, albeit on a very occasional basis, and until now, had not been aware of Jens' company/products/customer support etc. So, my initial concern as a new purchaser stemmed from this not knowing predicament. However, my worries have been eased considerably by Jens statements on this forum. Of course, when I ordered the AGA from Vesalia, realised that a company producing new kit for very old computers was quite a find, and therefore, had to be patient, but feedback is a good thing. By feedback, I don't mean every gory detail, just occasional progress snippets.

I think the AGA MkII will be very good when I can properly use it, and believe that the forthcomming software config tool will be worth the wait. I also have the ACA1231/42 accelerator and think that is an excellent product.

How I wish I could have had the A1200 setup I have now back then....
Yarc is offline  
Old 15 October 2012, 21:30   #1699
prowler
Global Moderator

prowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sidcup, England
Posts: 10,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by roy bates View Post
I can't stop thinking about Diablothe. Coudn't you leave him banned just 2 months? Forever is too much. As someone said "Everyone has a bad day"... You don't have to answer, just talk with him. Well, ok, you know more than I know.
You can be sure that the moderators too think about this sort of thing after the event. Something had to be done at the time, or there would have been a flood of vindictive posting. Please leave it to the moderation team to bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion.

Thankyou.
prowler is offline  
Old 15 October 2012, 21:54   #1700
roy bates
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: birmingham
Age: 49
Posts: 2,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by prowler View Post
You can be sure that the moderators too think about this sort of thing after the event. Something had to be done at the time, or there would have been a flood of vindictive posting. Please leave it to the moderation team to bring this matter to a satisfactory conclusion.

Thankyou.


yes of course,i was just commenting on retrofans post thats all as he was curios as peaple are.

you did what you had to do,it doesent make you a bad person either.
roy bates is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New products for C64 and Amiga from Individual Computers Schoenfeld News 1644 01 April 2017 23:25
Individual Computers Announces Clone-A Project Paul News 83 14 December 2013 16:05
Individual Computers Silver Sponsor of the Revision gibs Amiga scene 1 22 April 2011 16:43
Individual computers to quit selling hardware. whiteb News 7 20 December 2010 21:46
New products by individual Computers Paul News 0 30 November 2004 15:58

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.12572 seconds with 13 queries