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Old 26 June 2013, 19:00   #2301
gnujon
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Originally Posted by fitzsteve View Post
@gnujon

If you have a soft tooth brush you could also clean the pins around Lisa too
Yes, I was wondering if something like that might be necessary. I do have some plastic safe PCB cleaning spray at work too, not sure if it will do the job any better than plain old IPA though.
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Old 26 June 2013, 19:15   #2302
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IPA is fine but you need to give the pins a physical clean, if you don't have a soft toothbrush you can use a cotton swab/bud, that's fine too
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Old 26 June 2013, 19:22   #2303
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Originally Posted by fitzsteve View Post
IPA is fine but you need to give the pins a physical clean, if you don't have a soft toothbrush you can use a cotton swab/bud, that's fine too
Oh ok, will try that. I did think about a cotton bud, but wasn't sure if that would be considered a static safe option.

Thanks.
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Old 26 June 2013, 20:12   #2304
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Success! My A1200 Indi display is perfect now after cleaning Lisa's pins with IPA. :-) I must say I love this product. (The Indivision I mean, not the IPA. ;-))

It's amazing to be able to buy such quality hardware for the Amiga after all these years later.

I can't wait to try an Indi ECS in my A2000 next. :-)
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Old 28 June 2013, 02:05   #2305
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How did you connect the grounding cable?
Yes, I'd be interested to know what most people are doing with that too. The supplied ground cable is far too short to reach any motherboard screws in the A1200.
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Old 28 June 2013, 02:29   #2306
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It reaches just fine to the lower right screw that originally held the RF shield in place. In some cases the shield is still, more or less in place, which makes this a great place to connect it.
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Old 28 June 2013, 02:51   #2307
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It reaches just fine to the lower right screw that originally held the RF shield in place. In some cases the shield is still, more or less in place, which makes this a great place to connect it.
Sounds like your ground cable is a lot longer than mine (I'm not at home to measure it at the moment). If you don't mind me asking, which reseller did you purchase your unit from? Is it the CR model?
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Old 28 June 2013, 03:42   #2308
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If memory serves me right, i got it from Amigakit.
My cable is somewhere from 13-14cm, as a estimate.

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Old 28 June 2013, 04:00   #2309
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If memory serves me right, i got it from Amigakit.
My cable is somewhere from 13-14cm, as a estimate.
Oh ok, mine is an Amigakit one too. Your cable certainly seems to fit with plenty of slack. It could be that I'm just a moron and I didn't check carefully enough before deciding a longer one was needed. ;-) Will measure when I get home.

Last edited by gnujon; 28 June 2013 at 04:03. Reason: Forgot end tag for quote ;-)
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Old 28 June 2013, 08:55   #2310
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The ground cable fits better with the older version of Indivision AGA MK2. The new MK2cr version lacks one mounting hole and does not use the plastic stand-off any more (it now stands on the 20-pin connector), and the remaining mounting hole is indeed pretty far away from all motherboard screws, and mounting it on the shield or on one of the D-Sub screws at the back of the Amiga 1200 are the only options left.

If the shield is installed, the grounding cable can be left out. It is most important on tower conversions that use a plastic case, such as the Mikronik tower. Other tower conversions also leave out the shield, but since you're in a tower, you should have grounded screws nearby - plenty of options to choose from.

When the development unit failed CE pre-screening, I decided to play it safe on the final inspection day. Not only did I put all these 100R resistors into the "fast" lines as source termination, I also added the GND cable. The unit passed with flying colours, but the GND cable is on the official photo documentation, which is why I have to include it with every unit. I'm pretty sure that the source termination alone has brought down those nasty peaks in the spectrum, and the GND cable only did a minor improvement.

Since the GND cable is already fairly long, it probably does not help very much on EM emissions, but more on EM immunity: This is the second large verification where nasty EM is radiated into the Amiga, which either has to continue working, or self-recover from undesired operation. Here's where Kick3.0 and higher comes in handy: You don't have to click LMB any more to leave the Guru message, so it now counts as "recovered from undesired operation without user interaction" (ever wondered why this behaviour was introduced? Now you know why ;-)).

In essence, since the customer legally becomes the vendor of the complete system, it's up to the customer to decide whether the GND cable must be installed or not.

Jens
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Old 28 June 2013, 11:31   #2311
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Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post

Try pressing the menu button (leftmost of the four), it'll display the type of monitor. The example settings I have included with the flickerfixer archive have been made on a Dell 1704FPV.

Jens
So my monitor is a Dell E173FP, prob slightly older than the 5 year mark I was suggesting as there is no DVI input. I still can't get that smooth screen I'm craving after (I have PAL HI-RES Laced, display is slightly 'pixellated' on WB and games), but then again I'm intending to upgrade my monitor soonish, I'm just wondering if this is as good as it gets for this particular range of monitors or am i missing out on something obvious, I'm no IT fella, just a gamer after all!

Otherwise, great product/s and keep up the good work!
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Old 30 June 2013, 05:02   #2312
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Hi Jens,

Thanks for clarifying the situation with the ground cable. :-) And thank you very much for all your hard work on the Indivision AGA MK2. It's wonderful to be able to have a DVI output from the Amiga :-).

Regarding EM immunity, do you think running an Amiga without a top shield is ever likely to be a problem (in terms of system stability) in practical situations/environments? Many people seem to run their Amigas without them without any reported issues related to doing so. It seems some Amiga's (e.g. certain A600s) even shipped without the top shield installed to begin with.
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Old 30 June 2013, 05:38   #2313
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So my monitor is a Dell E173FP, prob slightly older than the 5 year mark I was suggesting as there is no DVI input. I still can't get that smooth screen I'm craving after (I have PAL HI-RES Laced, display is slightly 'pixellated' on WB and games), but then again I'm intending to upgrade my monitor soonish, I'm just wondering if this is as good as it gets for this particular range of monitors or am i missing out on something obvious, I'm no IT fella, just a gamer after all!
To me the DVI output does look a lot better, I love the clarity of it compared to the analog VGA. So if I were you I would upgrade to a monitor with a DVI input. But if a smooth retro 'warm fuzzy' image is what you're after, then you might actually be better off attaching a CRT VGA monitor to the output of your Indi. The problem with modern LCD monitors is that they only tend to look their best when displaying an image that uses their native (i.e. maximum) resolution. Lower resolutions tend to look blocky or jagged. Some LCD monitors have their own built-in fuzzification (not sure if that's the correct term ;-)) for lower resolutions in order to compensate for this, but often it just seems to lead to a blurry looking image rather than that 'smooth' look you tend to get on a CRT. But if you stick with analog VGA, make sure that you turn off the DVI output as Mr Schoenfeld advises, as this does make a big difference.

Of course CRTs have their downsides too though. For one thing if you want a big screen CRT, then the tube is enormous. I have a 21 inch Sony Trinitron for my A2000, it's nice but I almost break my back whenever I have to lift it. ;-)
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Old 30 June 2013, 05:46   #2314
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Regarding EM immunity, do you think running an Amiga without a top shield is ever likely to be a problem (in terms of system stability) in practical situations/environments?
It's been stated at least once, in this thread, by Jens, that he recommends simply tossing the shield, either in a bin, or somewhere for storage since not having it doesn't affect anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnujon View Post
Many people seem to run their Amigas without them without any reported issues related to doing so. It seems some Amiga's (e.g. certain A600s) even shipped without the top shield installed to begin with.
You DO realise yoiur actually answering your own question, yes?
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Old 30 June 2013, 07:08   #2315
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It's been stated at least once, in this thread, by Jens, that he recommends simply tossing the shield, either in a bin, or somewhere for storage since not having it doesn't affect anything.

You DO realise yoiur actually answering your own question, yes?
Sorry, I hadn't seen Jens saying that in this thread. (Had seen others saying it though). But if you were paying attention you would see that I was actually simply responding to his most recent post where he mentions EM immunity specifically. I'm just interested in his opinion on it. And actually, the manual for the Ind AGA MKII specifically recommends modification and reinstallation of the top shield (not tossing it into a bin).

I personally have no plans to reinstall my shield. The EM topic simply interests me.
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Old 30 June 2013, 16:35   #2316
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To me the DVI output does look a lot better, I love the clarity of it compared to the analog VGA. So if I were you I would upgrade to a monitor with a DVI input. But if a smooth retro 'warm fuzzy' image is what you're after, then you might actually be better off attaching a CRT VGA monitor to the output of your Indi. The problem with modern LCD monitors is that they only tend to look their best when displaying an image that uses their native (i.e. maximum) resolution. Lower resolutions tend to look blocky or jagged. Some LCD monitors have their own built-in fuzzification (not sure if that's the correct term ;-)) for lower resolutions in order to compensate for this, but often it just seems to lead to a blurry looking image rather than that 'smooth' look you tend to get on a CRT. But if you stick with analog VGA, make sure that you turn off the DVI output as Mr Schoenfeld advises, as this does make a big difference.

Of course CRTs have their downsides too though. For one thing if you want a big screen CRT, then the tube is enormous. I have a 21 inch Sony Trinitron for my A2000, it's nice but I almost break my back whenever I have to lift it. ;-)
Thanks, that all makes sense. The CRT would be nice but like you say they are HUGE and have no space for that!! I'm not complaining, the Indivision is amazing, I'll make do with my Dell for the moment and upgrade to DVI when funds allow Thanks for clearing this up for me.
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Old 04 August 2013, 14:50   #2317
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As already mentioned in this huge thread, if you create a new VGA mode with a 34.445 Mhz clock you end up with a v-frequency of 51.939 Hz. Although this isn't the magic 50 Hz needed for really smooth scrolling it might be better than the default 65 Hz.

I've just tried it on mine and tested it with Pinball fantasies and it does seem much smoother.
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Old 04 August 2013, 16:45   #2318
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hi novacoder any chance of a config file for that or snapshots
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Old 05 August 2013, 20:36   #2319
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Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
.... The example settings I have included with the flickerfixer archive have been made on a Dell 1704FPV.
Jens
Hello Jens,

I have two of your excellent indivision AGA mk2 sd/ffs. I need to get some flat screen monitors for them. If got a Dell 1704FPV off ebay, would this monitor work well "out of the box". If not what monitor would you recommend?

Thanks
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Old 10 August 2013, 23:40   #2320
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@Nova: I think it's not that difficult to build a VGA mode with a vertical frequency around 50Hz. The problem for the most people will be to find a monitor (especially a TFT) which is able to display this picture.
I have pretty good results with 75Hz - not perfect, but much better than 60Hz and it is in line with the usual monitor limitations.
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