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Old 29 September 2010, 17:59   #21
Leffmann

 
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Though why would DOSBox be slow because of SDL? I'm pretty sure its main use just to get a frame buffer, rendered entirely by DOSBox itself, onto the screen.
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Old 29 September 2010, 23:19   #22
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There's no reason why a 68000 series compatible CPU couldn't be made to run at GHz, except there's no market for one.

As Toni mentioned, the chipset trundles along at the same old comparatively measly speed. Even with fast enough RAM on the CPU board, the chipset's design really needs to be updated so that it still doesn't hog near 100% DMA time when the elaborately computed Unlimited Detail 3D Workbench/Game graphics is to be made available for Denise. Adding a simple VDU to the VDU card fixes that, and then suddenly you have not an enhanced Amiga but two computers inside an Amiga case...


I fully support remaking Amiga hardware in new components, and that includes the CPU. Nothing wrong with seeing new Motorola-CPUs making possible new accel cards.


Remaking the chipset is still the hard part and the holy grail to ensure a hardware future.

One way to enhance Amigas way beyond CPU upgrades would be to dev some hardware hack to 1) let CPU and chipset access chipram simultaneously (innovate some dual-bus RAM, or RAM shadow copy) or failing that, 2) some DMA thingy to "copy fast" like on [that] C64 [thingy] (but from fast to chip).

Last edited by Photon; 30 September 2010 at 22:27.
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Old 30 September 2010, 00:45   #23
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Amiga Quake demo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Quake testing: I'll do it if there is single archive (without original quake pak files) that can be unpacked to empty directory. Anything more complex: not worth the trouble.
Here's the shareware version of Quake (1.06) with Frank Wille's Amiga 68k build (1.09) added:
(Seems to work with the 1.06 DOS demo pak0.pak file included)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NOZJAF4Y (7.07 MB)

Just unpack the RAR, copy libs/wizard.library to LIBS: (if needed), and run from Workbench with the Quake_GUI icon.

This archive also includes the MS-DOS version (quake.exe).


Edit: This has also been uploaded to the HOL FTP (QuakeSW+Amiga68k.rar).

Last edited by Mequa; 30 September 2010 at 03:43.
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Old 30 September 2010, 02:53   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
There's no reason why a 68000 series compatible CPU couldn't be made to run at GHz, except there's no market for one.

As Toni mentioned, the chipset trundles along at the same old comparatively measly speed. Even with fast enough RAM on the CPU board, the chipset's design really needs to be updated so that it still doesn't hog near 100% DMA time when the elaborately computed Unlimited Detail 3D Workbench/Game graphics is to be made available for Denise. Adding a simple VDU to the VDU card fixes that, and then suddenly you have not an enhanced Amiga but two computers inside an Amiga case...


I fully support remaking Amiga hardware in new components, and that includes the CPU. Nothing wrong with seeing new Motorola-CPUs making possible new accel cards.


Remaking the chipset is still the hard part and the holy grail to ensure a hardware future.

One way to enhance Amigas way beyond CPU upgrades would be to dev some hardware hack to 1) let CPU and chipset access chipram simultaneously (innovate some dual-bus RAM, or RAM shadow copy) or failing that, 2) some DMA thingy to "copy fast" like on C64 (but from fast to chip).
Yep a decent CPU on it's own will just turn the 'Amiga' into a (slow) frame-buffer

The problems with updating the original chipset (ie. FPGA...which is already happening with Natami and the FPGA arcade/MiniMig 2 and CloneA) are that if you go for a standard 100% compatible chipset then there isn't much point but the more you improve the original the harder it is to maintain compatibility. The other thing is that hardware is only half the problem, without new/updated software (including the OS) developed to take advantage of the new features (eg chunky display modes) it also becomes rather pointless I’m afraid

I think the last real opportunity to upgrade the original AGA chipset was with the release of OS 3.9 back in the year 2000 (eg OS 3.9 would have used the updated chipset).

Last edited by NovaCoder; 30 September 2010 at 02:58.
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Old 30 September 2010, 03:13   #25
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That is one advantage of UAE on even a low-end PC over devices like the Minimig.

Not only can all models of Amiga be emulated, but it also has various compatibility options such as cycle exact modes, as well as high-performance options such as immediate blitter, JIT and RTG. To include such a range of compatibility, performance and features on a Minimig-style device would be very difficult.
Perhaps UAE on the newer mobile CPUs would be a cheaper alternative too. (Or grab an Amiga 500 off eBay.)

Last edited by Mequa; 30 September 2010 at 03:23.
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Old 30 September 2010, 03:42   #26
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Toni, I just uploaded the Amiga Quake demo version to the HOL FTP (QuakeSW+Amiga68k.rar).

I hope this was the right thing to do.
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Old 30 September 2010, 12:07   #27
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I see no point in making speedy CPUs for Amiga. C'mon even if they made it possible, what would you do with it, play Lotus "on crack"? Is it worth the money just to run Quake with impressive frame rate ? I seriously doubt it would substitute your currently used PC/Mac. Modern day computing power seems to be useless when you don't have proper software. That's why my old BeOS machine remains idle these days, as I cant watch YouTube videos on that (not counting some VLC methods which did the trick in 2007). To me Amiga is a great retrogaming machine with priceless sentimental value, therefore any attempt to make it "up to date" in terms of contemporary cpu power looks a bit over the top.
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Old 30 September 2010, 14:39   #28
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The appeal of the Amiga (to me) is reliving my youth a little bit. I never had anything faster than an '030 nor more than 16MB fast RAM. I've now got the same '030 but with 64MB (because it was cheap).

I could upgrade my Amiga to have a PowerPC CPU, masses of storage, a tower case, PCI board, Voodoo or Radeon etc. Utterly pointless though. I've got an enormously expensive and overpowered laptop if I want to do anything performance related (which, at the moment, means playing Minecraft). If I want a nice, retro experience, a 50MHz '030, 4GB CF and a 2GB CF in a PCMCIA adapter provide more than I really need.

A new, really fast CPU for an Amiga would be an expensive novelty.
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Old 30 September 2010, 18:29   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mequa View Post
Toni, I just uploaded the Amiga Quake demo version to the HOL FTP (QuakeSW+Amiga68k.rar).

I hope this was the right thing to do.
Well, the HOL FTP is for HOL and AMR contributions, so I moved it to the file server in the folder 'Game/Archive'
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Old 30 September 2010, 21:48   #30
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Instead of a blistering Ghz 68k moto I would prefer an x86 companion card in the GHz range, somthing like a P3 or Athlon core perhaps.. thinking about about I would love it to have a Trasmetta CPU - latent crusoe core =)

be nice to have that married to a simple NForce bridge with inbuit ATA/USB/FireWire/GFX

perhaps a local PCI/AGP/PIC-E bus adapter for expanions and lump in upto a GB of SDRAM and thats it I want one NOW!

=)

pucka!
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Old 30 September 2010, 21:53   #31
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There's me thinking about a WinUAE / AROS comparision on the same machine... Just an idea Hey, put those forks and torches away, will ya!
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Old 01 October 2010, 02:21   #32
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Quote:
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There's me thinking about a WinUAE / AROS comparision on the same machine... Just an idea Hey, put those forks and torches away, will ya!
No torches here I'd be curious to see the comparisons. Also the same machine running a cutdown linux / uae solution (something like XAmiga).. atm I think Winuae is at a point where it's (for me) becoming a better (and more cost effective) solution since my A2000 is slowly succumbing to entropy and family life has left me with considerably less cash. My 'fast amiga' is my right hand monitor - a mouse slide over and I'm back in retro land.
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Old 01 October 2010, 03:24   #33
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Quote:
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There's no reason why a 68000 series compatible CPU couldn't be made to run at GHz, except there's no market for one.

.
yes there's no reason ...there are not computers that uses 68k except a few AMigas and a few Atari ST and other minors devices
the origin o this was the cheat by Apple and IBM to kill the Commodore and to Kill the ATARI
they created the obsolete power PC
and the secret PACT was that they forced Motorola to leave the 68k upgrades

while
Apple in 1994 moved to powerPC processors without any justified reason....
investing money in a total hardware redesign and loosing compatibility with old software but with the reward of kill the others companies
leaving the Commodore and Atari without cpu upgrades....and forcing them to a total hardware redesign
The old theory between the RISC cpu VS CISC was pure crap and an successfully intent to destroy the competence
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Old 01 October 2010, 03:32   #34
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[citation needed]
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Old 01 October 2010, 09:28   #35
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a mouse slide over and I'm back in retro land.
Same here Guess a comparison of X86/X64 alternatives would be quite interesting for some of us here.
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Old 01 October 2010, 10:18   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabie View Post
the origin o this was the cheat by Apple and IBM to kill the Commodore and to Kill the ATARI
they created the obsolete power PC
and the secret PACT was that they forced Motorola to leave the 68k upgrades
interesting theory, but can anyone confirm its probability? Personally I don't think that Amiga and ST/TT/Falcon was any threat to Apple in the mid 90s.
I still remember that RISC propaganda when I got my PowerMac 6100 ("been there done that" campaign) and they always compared the new chip with early Pentium PCs. The didn't even bother to test it against Amiga or Atari.
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