Individual Computers - New accelerator cards for A600 & A1200

[kolla]

I also have two A600s waiting. I just hope there's a chance for a full 030 with MMU on it, since I intend to use at least one of them for Linux/m68k.

[Schoenfeld]

Hmm... Linux on an A600? What applications do you run??

I was indeed planning to use all the EC030-CPUs for the 600 card, but I might as well put them on the extreme-low-cost-board for the A1200 (the one that's supposed to replace memory-only cards). Haven't really made up my mind.

Did some work on the 56MHz version today: Board access and basic memory access works, but no burst yet, and no optimized access-pause yet. Still over 10 MIPS!

good night,
Jens

[kolla]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Hmm... Linux on an A600? What applications do you run??

Fair question, I suppose

For me it's more of the fun of getting things working, to make sure the Gentoo/m68k packages I build work well also on real machines. The nice thing with an A600 is that it is tiny, and I have an A600 mobo around that I have not used for anything yet.

[chiark]

That's just damn wonderful!

One of those, an ECS Indivision, 603 and CF and you've got more power than a 3000 in an easier to lug about package!

When are you taking deposits?

[Amigaman]

Jens,

Couple of questions;

Realistically do you have any approximate timelines for release of the cards? even if its just 2010 or 2011.

What order will you release the boards? A600 first?

Do you have a reseller lined up yet, or can we order direct from yourself? I only ask because I think Chiark makes a good point in offering a deposit, would help you to understand the market potential. I know everyone here is chomping at the bit for one or more of these cards, so would be nice if we could properly show our commitment.

Also, I realise you are still working on the boards, but is there a list of specs (that you are aiming for) yet for the boards?

Also, great news on the speed tests. You beat the Blizzards top speed!

[Predseda]

Originally Posted by Amigaman

Jens,


Do you have a reseller lined up yet, or can we order direct from yourself? I only ask because I think Chiark makes a good point in offering a deposit, would help you to understand the market potential. I know everyone here is chomping at the bit for one or more of these cards, so would be nice if we could properly show our commitment.

I think it will be as ever - these devices will be sold through well known shops, like Amikit.

[Schoenfeld]

I do not take deposits. Years ago, I've made it company policy to not take any money for what I cannot deliver right away. Back then, I was trying to separate myself from criminal entities in the market who just took deposits and then disappeared for good. Today, I think it's just good practise.

The timeline for both boards is "this year". Both boards are already in production. The design changes are only in the logic chips, but not the rest of the hardware. The A1200 accelerator will be available from my known resellers. The A600 accelerator will be a little restricted, as I will only deliver them to resellers who also do soldering work on the A600. That's because I have seen too many A600s with micro-cracks on the 68000 processor pins, and you need good soldering skills and equipment to fix that. If a reseller doesn't offer this service, he shouldn't offer the A600 accelerator.

The trouble with these micro-cracks is that the A600 appears to work properly if the accel is not installed. If you then plug something on top of the processor, the pins are bent far enough to the inside that contact to the mainboard is lost. It would then appear like the accel is dead, because the machine doesn't work when installed, but goes back to working state when the accelerator is removed. The observation is correct, but leads to wrong conclusions. Only a skilled technician will find out, so the A600 accelerator will only be available from resellers who also do this kind of service.

Jens

[chiark]

Sounds like good practice to me. Excellent news that stuff is in production!

The a600 micro-crack issue sounds interesting, and makes sense. I would have thought people need to be made aware of this up front and offered the service at a fixed price in the event that the accelerator does not work, however I assume that's what you're thinking of by insisting on the reseller being able to fix it

Do you have a budget estimate for the accelerators themselves? I don't think I've seen a price on the 600 one yet.

[voxel]

@jens :

"I will only deliver them to resellers who also do soldering work on the A600"

Hey cool ! that's means Me here in France/Belgium :-) as www.VoxelAmigaShop.fr is able to service Amigas too (since 1992, when I became an Authorized Commodore-Amiga Repair Service !) :-) And I ship Worlwide always with the best shipping price / security possible !

[Khyron]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

IThe A600 accelerator will be a little restricted, as I will only deliver them to resellers who also do soldering work on the A600.

That doesn't sound too good for those of us outside Europe (I don't know I may be wrong, but it doesn't sound too good..), There's not that many shops who will ship outside europe without insane shipping prices, and then there's a question of stock.. if one reseller with fair shipping is the only approved, its stock will be instantly depleted..

[Schoenfeld]

Khyron,

trust me, ultimately it'll be better for the customers if proper service can be provided. If you end up having bought an accelerator that does not work with your particular board and don't find anyone locally, you'd have wished that the vendor made sure the customer has someone to turn to for service.

by the way: The 030 really gains from burst: see attached screenshots of the 56MHz A1200 version with burst implemented and access-pauses reduced to a minimum.

Jens

[Fabie]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Khyron,

trust me, ultimately it'll be better for the customers if proper service can be provided. If you end up having bought an accelerator that does not work with your particular board and don't find anyone locally, you'd have wished that the vendor made sure the customer has someone to turn to for service.

by the way: The 030 really gains from burst: see attached screenshots of the 56MHz A1200 version with burst implemented and access-pauses reduced to a minimum.

Jens

good work..that's 2 or 3 mips faster than a 030/50
and how much will cost that turboboard?

[Adropac2]

Exciting news.I think you'll do very well with these as the demand is surely there from the community

[Lord Aga]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

by the way: The 030 really gains from burst: see attached screenshots of the 56MHz A1200 version with burst implemented and access-pauses reduced to a minimum.

Jens

Wowzers, that's fast

[kipper2k]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

I will only deliver them to resellers who also do soldering work on the A600. That's because I have seen too many A600s with micro-cracks on the 68000 processor pins, and you need good soldering skills and equipment to fix that. If a reseller doesn't offer this service, he shouldn't offer the A600 accelerator.
Jens

Hi,

I believe i have the skills and the tools in Canada/US to to repair their boards in the event of bad tracks/cold solder joints and cracks. I would be willling to repair the boards for those people that would need help. I have successfully done a lot of SMT removal/repairs. I live in Manitoba, Canada for those people who would need a Canadian outlet

[DyLucke]

Certainly i'll be interested on one of these A1200 boards... Hope i'll be able to grab one before the stock runs out.

[Tarzin]

Originally Posted by voxel

@jens :

"I will only deliver them to resellers who also do soldering work on the A600"

Hey cool ! that's means Me here in France/Belgium :-) as www.VoxelAmigaShop.fr is able to service Amigas too (since 1992, when I became an Authorized Commodore-Amiga Repair Service !) :-) And I ship Worlwide always with the best shipping price / security possible !

Hope to see my favourite reseller in the official list!
My A600 is waiting! (an so do I!)

[LTAC]

Originally Posted by Tarzin

Hope to see my favourite reseller in the official list!
My A600 is waiting! (an so do I!)

Same for me! Viva VOXEL

[Methanoid]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

It's done when it's done - and it's worth waiting for. And don't mention that el-cheapo-device emulating a C64 (which is actually totally overpriced) if everybody knows that Chameleon is on the way - with lots more features.

Jens

Ah, I was beginning to think it had been dropped or since you'd stopping visiting Amiga.org that it was dropped.

This for me is the only Amiga-like product I am interested in. Do keep us posted Jens (please!)

[Predseda]

OOOooooonly Jens Schoenfeeeeeld
makes it poooossibleee....

[Khyron]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Khyron,

trust me, ultimately it'll be better for the customers if proper service can be provided. If you end up having bought an accelerator that does not work with your particular board and don't find anyone locally, you'd have wished that the vendor made sure the customer has someone to turn to for service.
Jens

I think that part is a great thing (I don't need it myself since I've got access at home & work to all the tools needed.. smt,relflow, x-ray etc..)
I'm just hoping that there will be enough stock and places to order from since I'm looking to buy a couple of the A600 and A1200 models.

I recently got back into the amiga again and it sparked interest with my neices and nephews so I bought a few amigas as christmas presents for them and these are just perfect to make the systems compete. It been a nightmare trying to find reasonably priced ram and accelerators.

I really need to say thank you for all those Amiga and C= things you still build.

[r0jaws]

This is very good news indeed.

Jens, thank you for all the effort you continue to put into these hardware expansions.
Quite simply, I wouldn't be able to enjoy my 1200 without the Indivision SDFF you built and I look forward to breathing more life into my 600 when you go into production with these too.

[papa_november]

Wacky question about the A1200 version: there's pads on the 1200 motherboard for an FPU. If you were to put an FPU there, would it work?

[Paul_s]

Originally Posted by Predseda

OOOooooonly Jens Schoenfeeeeeld
makes it poooossibleee....

I've emailed Doommaster to see if he can do a new version of his rendition of 'Only Amiga' song

[AndyLandy]

Originally Posted by Paul_s

I've emailed Doommaster to see if he can do a new version of his rendition of 'Only Amiga' song

Oh, for the love of God, no! Nobody deserves that!

@Jens: That's fantastic news, I know there's been some difficulty with the A600 boards in the past, I'm really glad to hear that they are now on the horizon. I can definitely see myself finding a home for an A600 and an A1200 board once they become available. Thanks again for all your hard work, it's appreciated.

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by papa_november

Wacky question about the A1200 version: there's pads on the 1200 motherboard for an FPU. If you were to put an FPU there, would it work?

No, it wouldn't work. Multiple lines that would be needed to operate it are not available on the 150-pin bus, and the FPU would be on the wrong side of the data bus drivers.

Once again, there's no application that makes sense on a 030 these days that would not work without an FPU. Don't try to push an FPU into a system that doesn't need one.

Jens

[cosmicfrog]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Once again, there's no application that makes sense on a 030 these days that would not work without an FPU. Don't try to push an FPU into a system that doesn't need one.

Jens

sounds just like something alexh would say

not that its wrong

[ant512]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Once again, there's no application that makes sense on a 030 these days that would not work without an FPU. Don't try to push an FPU into a system that doesn't need one.

AmiBlitz 3. I have no idea why an IDE needs an FPU, but it does.

[cosmicfrog]

ant u need take that up with the software developers of AmiBlitz

[ant512]

Originally Posted by cosmicfrog

ant u need take that up with the software developers of AmiBlitz

Not really; it's just an example of a program that works fine on an 030 but needs an FPU.

[Schoenfeld]

Would be interesting to see if FPU commands can be trapped and emulated, so you can at least run FPU software. However, it's too late to think about adding an FPU, and the memory speed that we gain from skipping on the FPU is considerable, so I still think it's a good trade.

Surprisingly, the PCBs are early. We haven't booked any machine time before AmiWest, so it's questionable if we will have a few units with us in Sacramento. Here's a glance at the boards - they'll be really beautiful!

Jens

[FOL]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Would be interesting to see if FPU commands can be trapped and emulated, so you can at least run FPU software. However, it's too late to think about adding an FPU, and the memory speed that we gain from skipping on the FPU is considerable, so I still think it's a good trade.

Surprisingly, the PCBs are early. We haven't booked any machine time before AmiWest, so it's questionable if we will have a few units with us in Sacramento. Here's a glance at the boards - they'll be really beautiful!

Jens

Ill be the machine, . Ill make em, gimme gimme, lol.

[cv643d]

Nice work!

[Schoenfeld]

just got a reply from the assembly company: Machines are occupied until october 29th. This means that the schedule "first half of november" will be met, but we won't have anything for Amiwest.

Jens

[Lord Aga]

Great work Jens. Really unbelievable.
It doesn't matter if they are delayed a few weeks. Your work is greatly appreciated.

[FOL]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

just got a reply from the assembly company: Machines are occupied until october 29th. This means that the schedule "first half of november" will be met, but we won't have anything for Amiwest.

Jens

nice,

Have to admit, those white boards dont half look sexy, .
Were the first CD32 Indi prototypes white?

[Amigaman]

Looking good!

[Cloudane]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

just got a reply from the assembly company: Machines are occupied until october 29th. This means that the schedule "first half of november" will be met, but we won't have anything for Amiwest.

Jens

Cool, it's definite progress anyway

Sorry for OT-ness but are any Indivision AGA boards planned at the same time?

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by FOL

Were the first CD32 Indi prototypes white?

The prototype of the A4000/CD32 version was white, yes. Back then I decided not to use white because every single bit of manual soldering/fixing (that's required on a good portion of a production run) would be visible. However, I got so many eMails asking why the picture in some webshop shows white instead of blue, and if one could get a white board... short: I want to give it a try, hoping that it stays nice and white after a run through the reflow oven and the wave solder!

Jens

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by Cloudane

Sorry for OT-ness but are any Indivision AGA boards planned at the same time?

Indivision AGA will be "later than that", as we can't do everything at the same time.

Jens