English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > News

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 09 November 2010, 00:32   #321
frank_b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston USA
Posts: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
They probably do 4-2-2-2. You can't do X-1-1-1 with normal D-Ram. I make excessive use of SD-Ram features here.



There's two things that may cause a burst to be slower:

1. you start it when it doesn't make sense (at the end of a cache line)
2. you run it all the way through, 4 longwords, "no matter what".

My ACA cards will only start a burst if it's NOT at the end of a cache line, and they stop a burst if the end of a cache line is reached. Call it a "dynamic burst", because it can be 2, 3 or 4 cycles long, depending on what's most useful.

All this stuff is described in the original Motorola literature. I'd be surprised if Phase 5 has not implemented this, because it's not that hard to do.

Jens
Yeah I have the moto 020 and 030 user manuals. I was using an aligned copy which is why I found it odd. A sequential memory copy with data burst off is considerably faster than without on those old cards.
frank_b is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 09 November 2010, 00:44   #322
NovaCoder
Registered User
NovaCoder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Melbourne/Australia
Posts: 3,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabie View Post
a first personshooter game that runs at 12fps is not playlabe in any form
to be playlable and enyoylable and smooth Doom needs at least 45-50 fps
and none amiga Turboboard reach that framerate ...even the 040/40 or the 060/50
maybe that rare A1200 /060 turboboards hacked to run at 80mhz can reach 45 fps
anyways

for me it is nonsense comparing turboboards with Doom on Amiga
the best way to play Doom is doomsday port for windows....that's is really nice
You're obviously spoilt by modern 60fps shooters, when doom came out my little 386 run it smoothly at only 15fps, which is why Doom was so damn popular in the first place, you didn't need a powerful machine to run it well
NovaCoder is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 00:57   #323
Leffmann

 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaCoder View Post
You're obviously spoilt by modern 60fps shooters, when doom came out my little 386 run it smoothly at only 15fps, which is why Doom was so damn popular in the first place, you didn't need a powerful machine to run it well
This is of course subjective, but you can't seriously call 15 FPS smooth. Start your favorite game in WinUAE and set the frame skip to 3 on PAL (16.7 FPS) or 4 on NTSC (15 FPS) and come back and say with a straight face that the game still runs smooth
Leffmann is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 01:17   #324
Fabie
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: France
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
Actually Risen3D is the better Doomsday : http://risen3d.drdteam.org/
better than doomsday?
uau !!
I have to check that
thanks for the link !!!
Fabie is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 01:48   #325
Fabie
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: France
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaCoder View Post
You're obviously spoilt by modern 60fps shooters, when doom came out my little 386 run it smoothly at only 15fps, which is why Doom was so damn popular in the first place, you didn't need a powerful machine to run it well
I know that the original Doom was developed by ID software on 486 machines running at 100mhz
using a 486/100mhz Doom is smooth and reach 60 fps...even more
of course the minimum requirements to run the game maybe is a 386 but 15 fps on a 386 is not smooth
a 386 is like a 020 or a 030
you feel it smooth on that ancient time...but it was not smooth
Fabie is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 04:29   #326
desiv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 1,173
There's a difference between "smooth" and "enjoyable."
Was doom "smooth" on my 386, probably not.

Was it fun and enjoyable? Heck yeah...

We don't all need 50+ FPS to enjoy a game.

Even nowadays...

desiv
desiv is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 04:32   #327
Adropac2
Zone Friend
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Age: 45
Posts: 834
15 frames for 3d is hardly a total jerkfest though is it considering loads of Amiga games for example didn't even manage this.For 2d then yes it's a little harder on the eyes.At 5 frames then i'd agree more to the point.I'd even argue that 3d say at some 17 frames is worse on the eyes than much less than that especially if we're talking textures

Animation too can get under 10 frames and still be acceptable

Last edited by Adropac2; 09 November 2010 at 04:38.
Adropac2 is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 06:41   #328
NovaCoder
Registered User
NovaCoder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Melbourne/Australia
Posts: 3,444
Don't forget that how you view the game plays a large part in how 'smooth' it looks, my old 386 and my A1200 had slow-burn CRT's whereas now days I'm using a 100Hz LCD TV for my 60FPS FPS (too many TLA's for sure!).

I think we're getting a bit off topic here BTW.
NovaCoder is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 12:01   #329
Oliver_A
Soldering Ironman
Oliver_A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany, NRW
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabie View Post
a first personshooter game that runs at 12fps is not playlabe in any form
In 1994, I was playing Doom on a 386-50Mhz CPU, which barely made it over the 10fps mark in Low Detail Mode. Most people played Doom that way back then.

Quote:
to be playlable and enyoylable and smooth Doom needs at least 45-50 fps
Just too bad that the Doom engine doesn't allow higher framerates than 35fps (or half the refresh of a VGA 320x200 mode).

Quote:
and none amiga Turboboard reach that framerate ...
If we ignore the fact that Doom actually can't run higher than 35fps: the PPC version on my Blizzard PPC runs at exactly that maximum frame rate. On AGA. So wrong again.

Quote:
for me it is nonsense comparing turboboards with Doom on Amiga
the best way to play Doom is doomsday port for windows....that's is really nice
Well, then what are you doing here? You obviously have no interest in classic computing, which is about collecting and maintaining our beloved babies. If you replace the engine of your classic car with a brand new, custom made replacement part, you want to make sure that it gives you at least comparable results, if not better.

Anyone can buy an el-cheapo PC and claim: Doom runs better on it. That's hardly the point. The point is that we offer brand new 68030 turboboards, which are affordable, compatible, have lots of memory and even improve performance compared to the models which were available back then. How fast can we make a turboboard without breaking compatibility? One practical answer is: to whip the 68030.

If you question that, then you can question your hobby, the scene, almost anything being discussed here.

Last edited by Oliver_A; 09 November 2010 at 12:24.
Oliver_A is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 13:22   #330
Calabazam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: France
Posts: 163
How could the framerate be determined in ADoom or DoomAttack?
Is there some type of console command?
Calabazam is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 13:36   #331
Fabie
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: France
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calabazam View Post
How could the framerate be determined in ADoom or DoomAttack?
Is there some type of console command?
on Adoom there is a tooltype named FPS
I do not remember very well.... check the Adoom icon
Fabie is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 13:57   #332
Fabie
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: France
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_A View Post



Well, then what are you doing here? You obviously have no interest in classic computing, which is about collecting and maintaining our beloved babies. If you replace the engine of your classic car with a brand new, custom made replacement part, you want to make sure that it gives you at least comparable results, if not better.

Anyone can buy an el-cheapo PC and claim: Doom runs better on it. That's hardly the point. The point is that we offer brand new 68030 turboboards, which are affordable, compatible, have lots of memory and even improve performance compared to the models which were available back then. How fast can we make a turboboard without breaking compatibility? One practical answer is: to whip the 68030.

If you question that, then you can question your hobby, the scene, almost anything being discussed here.
of course I'm interested in classic computing......but Doom is not classic on Amiga
and can be played on a better way on a PC with better ports
I think a better option is comparing a game like alien breed 3d2 which was an original amiga game
please check if AB3D2 is faster on the new 1230 because this game was slow even on a 060
Fabie is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 14:00   #333
Calabazam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: France
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabie View Post
on Adoom there is a tooltype named FPS
I do not remember very well.... check the Adoom icon
I see.
For information, i am around 15 FPS on AGA/68060 with Doomattack, full screen and high details. ADoom doesn't want to use my wads, so i can't tell.
Calabazam is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 14:27   #334
vroom6sri
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Peterborough
Age: 41
Posts: 566
How & when?

Back to the topic of the thread... How and when will I be able to buy one of these (if they don't sell out before I get my act together) in the UK? Is the cost to the buyer just going to be the 99 Euros plus P&P (A1200 accelerator) or is that the price they will be supplied to sellers for.

AND a big thank you for this amazing development work by the way.
vroom6sri is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 14:32   #335
amigakit.com
Registered User

amigakit.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: www.amigakit.com
Posts: 1,709
@Vroom6sri

You will be able to buy them from us in a few weeks time. We will announce availability on the www.amigakit.com when they are in stock.
amigakit.com is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 14:35   #336
Fabie
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: France
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calabazam View Post
I see.
For information, i am around 15 FPS on AGA/68060 with Doomattack, full screen and high details. ADoom doesn't want to use my wads, so i can't tell.
that's strange but read ADoom'documentation about wad files
maybe your wad files have an incorrect name
Fabie is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 15:44   #337
daxb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,750
Oliver_A:
Do you have the possibility to try/test doomattack to get fps? As far as I can remember adoom didn`t worked here or was too slow. We could compare my APollo 1240/40 with 1230/56. AIBB memtest says that APollo was only 15% faster.
daxb is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 16:10   #338
DDNI
Targ Explorer

DDNI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Age: 43
Posts: 5,090
Send a message via ICQ to DDNI Send a message via MSN to DDNI
Doomattack gives me 35fps on 060 using Voodoo3 320x240x8.
AGA 320x256 using the 040+ c2p routine also gives 35fps with same system.

ADoomPPC on AGA 320x256 gives me a solid 35fps.
DDNI is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 16:29   #339
TronPlayer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: California, US
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
A1200, EC030, 64MB = 99,- EUR
A600, full-030, 32MB, all mechanical parts included and pre-assembled = 159,- EUR
Jens
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK View Post
Is the faster A1200 price of 199Euro set in stone? Is this going to be the last one released?
Thanks,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
Nothing is set in stone about a faster A1200 version. I don't know if I'll release the faster version, what speed it'll be and what the price will be. I focus on Xmas business and that consists of the two cards I just mentioned.
Hi,
Can you please tell me if the 1200 56mhz card is going to be available for Christmas as well? According to the first posts in this thread both the 28mhz and 58mhz versions will be available by Christmas. But according to the posts above it sounds like only the 28mhz version will be.
TronPlayer is offline  
Old 09 November 2010, 16:57   #340
Schoenfeld
electricky.
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: out in the wild
Posts: 1,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by TronPlayer View Post
Hi,
Can you please tell me if the 1200 56mhz card is going to be available for Christmas as well? According to the first posts in this thread both the 28mhz and 58mhz versions will be available by Christmas. But according to the posts above it sounds like only the 28mhz version will be.
The 56MHz version will be later than the 28MHz version, and I can't tell if we'll make it before Xmas. The faster CPU interface is a whole new development - even if the card looks the same, the contents of the CPLD are substantially different. This development is a lot more difficult than the slower versions, so I can't give a firm release date for the faster version.

Jens
Schoenfeld is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Santa's come early... A new scandoubler from Individual Computers NovaCoder News 708 18 October 2016 23:43
Details for the next generation of Flickerfixers from Individual Computers MarkONE News 2438 01 February 2016 13:04
A600 board versions and accelerator cards LePiaf support.Hardware 9 03 September 2012 13:49
Individual Computers Silver Sponsor of the Revision gibs Amiga scene 1 22 April 2011 17:43
New products by individual Computers Paul News 0 30 November 2004 16:58

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.29611 seconds with 12 queries