English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 20 April 2010, 14:35   #21
DJBase
Amiga is my Religion

DJBase's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
I meant if Mathias knows him
Ups...sorry.
DJBase is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 20 April 2010, 16:23   #22
Mathias
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
My comments were not just aimed at Atari Coldfire Project. They were also aimed at the NatAmi project which has consistently failed to delivery anything while promising everything. A little bit of spent up anger let out at once
OK, I see. To me it seems now you are not really not liking us, you just cannot imagine that we will finish it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Realistically thought, you're are not going to be able to make an Atari Falcon clone using an existing Coldfire processor and get it to run binary 68k code anywhere near as fast as an 060 based CT63 or Milan because of the incompatibilities?
That is just your analysis! And it is wrong. Already before we starteed, we had a proof of concept, that showed execution of 68k applications inside a native ColdFire system is possible. What do you expect about an computer with 133MHz systembus, DDR2 Ram etc. running under full speed while only some native 68k instructions of some applications have to be trapped? And we are not talking about our recent developments here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
  • You're using a Coldfire CPU to replace a 680x0 CPU.
Yes of course. Thatīs our aim. As the fastest availaible 68060s are running at 105 MHz with some overclocking. Thus itīs named Atari COLDFIRE Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
[*]You're using an FPGA of potentially fixed size and speed grade to incorporate a HDL design who's size and complexity is as yet unknown.[/list]
Maybe you are not aware about it. Our FPGA design is mainly based on Wolfgangs Suska. He worked with Carol for more than 6 years now at the mapping of all Atari chips. The Suska is availaible for over one year now. I got one at home and itīs woking very good. So nothing is unknown! And we chosed the huge and very expansive (120,- Euro) FPGA to have enough headroom for future improvements.

Last edited by Mathias; 20 April 2010 at 16:37.
 
Old 20 April 2010, 16:30   #23
TCD
Registered User

TCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 39
Posts: 24,032
A YouTube vid says more than 1000 words I bet you know Gunnar
TCD is offline  
Old 20 April 2010, 16:32   #24
Mathias
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
@Mathias
Do you know Gunnar von Boehn by any chance?
Yes - in a kind. Not personally, but we exchanged a few mails, about our projects, possible support, and especially the V5e. As we at the ACP got first requests, if we like to beat NatAmi, it was important for us to explain, the we do not see any rivalry between our projects. Why are you asking?
 
Old 20 April 2010, 16:37   #25
Mathias
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Push home that applications will have to be recompiled, re-assembled and possibly re-written to get any speed advantage on the Coldfire platform.
Another advantage is that a ColdFire is 25,- Euros each, availaible in high quantities, got several controllers on chip (DDR, PCI, MMU, …) and that it has a future. A single 060 is $450 ordering directly at Freescale at the moment.
Well, recompiling applications will lead to full speed execution at 266MHz - thatīs true. But be sure that we are producing a computer which will be able to execute all native Atari applications at a reasonable speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Push home that while high compatibility with Falcon hardware is the goal it will be a long time coming, if it is at all possible with the first generation FPGA boards.
Did you read anywhere that we promise 100% Falcon compatibility in the next weeks? No, of course it is a "long term aim". We always promised compatibility better than the Hades and usage of every clean GEM application. And of course it will not be possible for every Falcon application, especialy when they require exact timings of the 16MHz 030. But we based our design at the Falcon, and will include the DSP as sonn as it is ready etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Honesty at this level and my attitude will change.
It will at least change when you see the first working machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
Phrases like "make an Atari Falcon clone with nearly full compatibility to an original Falcon" IMO is just not realistic in a short enough timespan using today's FPGA technology at a price point that will be viable.

It is a very good goal, but should include emphasis this is a long term goal for the underlying HDL cores. That compatibility of this type will take many man years.
As said above, the Suska development is going on for years now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
I say the same to you: do not make the public believe in unrealistic things.
I respect if you think it is not possible. But please use terms, that make clear that it is your opinion, not a fact. Look, for example, we had a complete boarddesign, before we showed up again in April last year. We did not start again by telling "we plan to do something" we started with "here it is". So I am not sure why you are thinking how you think.
I understand that the 68k <-> CF instruction issue is delicate, aspecially as Coldfusion and Dragon failed. Maybe you should read the Microapl page for some basic techiques http://www.microapl.co.uk/Porting/Co...technotes.html And even if the CF68KLib is not optimized (doesnīt know V4e at all, ...) Didier got good resoults 3 years ago. So please follow our development this year.
 
Old 20 April 2010, 16:38   #26
TCD
Registered User

TCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 39
Posts: 24,032
I was just asking, because Gunnar does the same 'job' for the NatAmi project as you do for ACP. Mainly because of the stuff you just answered Do you plan to release any vids on your project soon?
TCD is offline  
Old 20 April 2010, 16:58   #27
seuden
uber cool demi god

seuden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kent/England
Posts: 1,905
Surely alexh has a point. I don't care what anyone says but imo using an fpga is basically hardware emulating something. If UAE is over ten years old (~14 years old) and still not 100% compatible and in the words of many wise men it probably will never be, what are the chances that these fpga projects will be, especially soon?
seuden is offline  
Old 20 April 2010, 17:16   #28
Mathias
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by seuden View Post
Surely alexh has a point. I don't care what anyone says but imo using an fpga is basically hardware emulating something. If UAE is over ten years old (~14 years old) and still not 100% compatible and in the words of many wise men it probably will never be, what are the chances that these fpga projects will be, especially soon?
Yeah, I did not tell, that 100% compatibility is possible. In fact for some applications - those who use directly the hardware, including timings etc. also as those who use registers directly beside the OS, it will becom extremely hard. That will not be done in some months from now. But please have a look at the working Suska, which is under development for 6 years, and the base for our FPGA configuration.

http://shop.inventronik.de/store
http://experiment-s.de/en/
 
Old 20 April 2010, 18:14   #29
Retro1234
5150

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sycophantazia
Posts: 3,776
Ive put one of the Videos of the Dragon in the Zone as I cant seem to find them anywhere on the Web, Its hard to tell just how fast it was/is running hes seems to have a TV card in use but it Doesnt look Super fast.

And as far as I can tell everthing running native - without being recompiled?
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 21 April 2010, 22:06   #30
Mathias
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
I was just asking, because Gunnar does the same 'job' for the NatAmi project as you do for ACP. Mainly because of the stuff you just answered
Ah I see, the typical "german-language-guy-as-coordinator-of-marginalised-computerplattforms-hardware-projects-speech"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
Do you plan to release any vids on your project soon?
We will release videos of our working computers. But "soon" can also mean 12 weeks or something. I will come back and report when they are online.
 
Old 21 April 2010, 22:40   #31
cosmicfrog
The 1 who ribbits
cosmicfrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: leek, Staffs, UK
Age: 50
Posts: 3,555
Send a message via MSN to cosmicfrog
just 2 more weeks then
cosmicfrog is offline  
Old 20 May 2010, 22:47   #32
gilgamesh
Linux snob

gilgamesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Monkey Island
Posts: 997
Update on the timeline http://acp.atari.org/news.html
gilgamesh is offline  
Old 20 May 2010, 23:12   #33
jotd
Cat freak
jotd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Age: 46
Posts: 1,973
a special version of WHDLoad would be required too I'd love this coldfire board
jotd is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coldfire V4 emulation Mrs Beanbag request.UAE Wishlist 4 10 April 2014 08:55
Coldfire support pjhutch support.WinUAE 12 05 June 2011 14:11
Coldfire help majsta Coders. General 4 22 January 2011 21:22
Proposal: Split Amiga projects and PC projects? andreas project.Amiga Game Factory 4 12 February 2008 13:00
DRAGON ColdFire FAQ Paul News 4 21 January 2005 09:11

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.22345 seconds with 11 queries