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Old 16 April 2010, 23:50   #1
gilgamesh
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A... Coldfire Projects

What happened to the interesting Amiga Coldfire Project?

The Atari Coldfire Project seems alive and kicking.
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Old 16 April 2010, 23:52   #2
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I think we should steal it
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Old 17 April 2010, 00:07   #3
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Seems like the Atari scene is a lot more dedicated and effective than the Amiga scene
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Old 17 April 2010, 22:28   #4
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Yeah, and they got 100MHz 060 too... lets convert
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Old 17 April 2010, 22:48   #5
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Unless you compile every app for Coldfire too it would run in emulation mode which will be really slow on 266MHz.
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Old 17 April 2010, 22:54   #6
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Not what they are saying, apparently it will be a Falcon clone like they have made before. This means it should be full speed.
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Old 17 April 2010, 22:57   #7
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Apparently the newer versions of Coldfire have implemented all the missing 68k instructions and are binary compatible. That's what these guys reckon anyway.
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Old 17 April 2010, 23:25   #8
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Hm, found something after all

http://www.cdtv.org.uk/coldfire/1154.html
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/coldfirev4.html
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Old 18 April 2010, 00:23   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
Not what they are saying, apparently it will be a Falcon clone like they have made before. This means it should be full speed.
But they are 100% full of shit. I respect them for actually trying to create something but really we should nickname it : YAN (Yet Another NatAmi). One or two good engineers keeping their cards close to their chests about what they are doing, what the final result will be and when (which I respect) and a load of bullshitting non-technical wannabes hanging on around them making up stuff as they go. Really you should be ashamed of yourself for reading such crap.

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Apparently the newer versions of Coldfire have implemented all the missing 68k instructions and are binary compatible. That's what these guys reckon anyway.
This is a VERY VERY old post from a project that was canned. Most probably because it turned out to be many times slower than existing 060 (or even 040) solutions when running existing Amiga code.

Last edited by alexh; 18 April 2010 at 00:31.
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Old 18 April 2010, 09:45   #10
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Alex, you've been critical about Natami before, and now about these projects, but I don't see the point. Is it how they do it, or don't you like the whole idea?
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Old 18 April 2010, 10:47   #11
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Not what they are saying, apparently it will be a Falcon clone like they have made before. This means it should be full speed.
The advantage what they have is that their operating system (MiNT) is open source and can be compiled for Coldfire too. But everything else needs emulation. It might be faster than a stock Falcon with 030 but a Falcon with CT60/63 would kick ass this new board unless its native.
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Old 18 April 2010, 10:51   #12
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Apparently the newer versions of Coldfire have implemented all the missing 68k instructions and are binary compatible. That's what these guys reckon anyway.
No, its not. Even the V4 Core isn't 100% compatible. If it would I am sure Elbox had already released their Dragon board.
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Old 18 April 2010, 18:55   #13
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I think I understand the problem with Coldfire better now
http://bbrv.blogspot.com/2008/03/col...am-begins.html
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Old 18 April 2010, 19:33   #14
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Alex, you've been critical about Natami before, and now about these projects, but I don't see the point.
It is called realism. If they had a realistic approach to design. Didn't bullshit too much. Had proper expectations about their final goal, capabilities, prices and time scales then I would be first to cheer.

I have cheered for the developers of MiniMig (Dennis van Weeren, Jakub Bednarski), Suska (Wolfgang Förster), FPGA Arcade (MikeJ) and even some members of NatAmi (their lead coder Thomas Hirsch seems to be a good guy).

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Is it how they do it, or don't you like the whole idea?
The ideas are admirable. But when they discover that there is a technical impass (such as high speed 68k compatibility using existing coldfire chips, or the speed and cost of FPGA chips) they need to hold up their hands and say "Ah yes, this isn't going to work is it?" instead of spending years making people believe (and in some cases pay) for something that will never become anything.

Last edited by alexh; 18 April 2010 at 19:42.
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Old 20 April 2010, 05:19   #15
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Wow, …

Hi,

I am the one who is coordinating the Atari Coldfire Project for 17 months now.

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a load of bullshitting non-technical wannabes hanging on around them making up stuff as they go
Thank you, but such a project doesn´t consist of hardware and code alone. I am doing about 20 hours per week free of any charge, ... Maybe my technical explenations are not always the best, as I am no developer, but I try to free the developers from activities like dealing around with news or such public communication. I am stunned about your hateful undertone, which you never showed in Atari forums.

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It is called realism. If they had a realistic approach to design. Didn't bullshit too much. Had proper expectations about their final goal, capabilities, prices and time scales then I would be first to cheer.
What is unrealistic at our approach of design? What do you not like about our final goals? Have you ever read about our aims http://acp.atari.org/about.html ? Capabilities are changing all the time. The price is fixed since our first public announcement in April 2009. And to not publish time scales is a intentional act, as the Atari community had enough announcements which never became real. There is no concern behind this development, do not forget this fact.

You are talking about a team which includes all 4 former Clone producers. Fredi Aschwanden, who did the Medusa and Hades computers, Milan, and Wolfgang Förster who did the Suska. Also there are many of the important MiNT developers, EmuTOS developers, names like Didier Méquignon, Thomas Baumgärtner (Soundpool), Vincent Rivière or Henk Robbers who speak for themselves. In fine, you are talking about the "Who is who" of atari scene and developers, who already produced 4 times working Atari compatible computers, ... We also got official TOS-licences and the soucecode as well.

You do not have to cheer our project, but I like to ask you to not make the public fear, as you also never have seen the contracts with Medusa Computer Systems, preordering persons got.

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for something that will never become anything.
I´ll come back to you in several weeks about this predication.

Last edited by Mathias; 20 April 2010 at 05:30.
 
Old 20 April 2010, 09:36   #16
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Originally Posted by gilgamesh View Post
What happened to the interesting Amiga Coldfire Project?
[ Show youtube player ]
@Mathias
Do you know Gunnar von Boehn by any chance?
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Old 20 April 2010, 11:44   #17
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Do you know Gunnar von Boehn by any chance?
Yes but not personally.
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Old 20 April 2010, 12:58   #18
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There were some videos of the Dragon in Action, But I dont think it was a trapdoor expansion.
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Old 20 April 2010, 13:16   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathias View Post
I am stunned about your hateful undertone, which you never showed in Atari forums.
My comments were not just aimed at Atari Coldfire Project. They were also aimed at the NatAmi project which has consistently failed to delivery anything while promising everything. A little bit of spent up anger let out at once

Realistically thought, you're are not going to be able to make an Atari Falcon clone using an existing Coldfire processor and get it to run binary 68k code anywhere near as fast as an 060 based CT63 or Milan because of the incompatibilities?

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What is unrealistic at our approach of design?
  • You're using a Coldfire CPU to replace a 680x0 CPU.
  • You're using an FPGA of potentially fixed size and speed grade to incorporate a HDL design who's size and complexity is as yet unknown.
Push home that applications will have to be recompiled, re-assembled and possibly re-written to get any speed advantage on the Coldfire platform.

Push home that while high compatibility with Falcon hardware is the goal it will be a long time coming, if it is at all possible with the first generation FPGA boards.

Honesty at this level and my attitude will change.

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What do you not like about our final goals? Have you ever read about our aims http://acp.atari.org/about.html?
Phrases like "make an Atari Falcon clone with nearly full compatibility to an original Falcon" IMO is just not realistic in a short enough timespan using today's FPGA technology at a price point that will be viable.

It is a very good goal, but should include emphasis this is a long term goal for the underlying HDL cores. That compatibility of this type will take many man years.

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Originally Posted by Mathias View Post
You are talking about a team which includes:
Sounds like you have a fighting chance of producing something. Possibly not commercially viable for home consumers for 10+ years but fun none the less.

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Originally Posted by Mathias View Post
You do not have to cheer our project, but I like to ask you to not make the public fear
I say the same to you: do not make the public believe in unrealistic things.

Be honest and you'll be surprised how few of the potential users will leave.

Good luck. All the best.

Last edited by alexh; 20 April 2010 at 13:41.
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Old 20 April 2010, 13:18   #20
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Yes but not personally.
I meant if Mathias knows him
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