English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Amiga scene

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 28 March 2010, 17:11   #21
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry Horace View Post
they sound good, but very different to the live performance. The website statement is "technically" correct, but misleading.
That's fundamentalist nitpicking, the assortment of effects is not excessively used, it's just as much as anyone would use it in a live performance. The music itself is fucking well produced and he makes some of the best sounding mods I have heard.
Akira is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 28 March 2010, 17:54   #22
Hungry Horace
Wipe-Out Enthusiast

Hungry Horace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: .
Age: 36
Posts: 2,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
That's fundamentalist nitpicking, the assortment of effects is not excessively used, it's just as much as anyone would use it in a live performance. The music itself is fucking well produced and he makes some of the best sounding mods I have heard.

i dont believe it's nitpicking at all. The effects ARE extensively used throughout the live performance - if you cant hear (or even see) that, then I think you are only fooling yourself. I've managed to DJ for many years without the need to use effects that much, so it is a lie to say "as much as anyone would use it in a live performance." - something like that is totally dependent on the individual performer.

I never questioned the quality of the music writing, so I dont see why you feel the need to use expletives in order to make your point Akira. I agree, it's very good - but the effects used are a massive part of the videos being highlighted in the original post of this thread.

Last edited by Hungry Horace; 28 March 2010 at 18:01.
Hungry Horace is offline  
Old 28 March 2010, 17:59   #23
Loedown
Precious & fragile things

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,927
I didn't like it, far prefer anything that Orbital did, such as the 80's remix of Halcyon + On + On. If you're going to do sampled stuff, make it interesting.

Aphex Twin would be far more dangerous on an A500 too.
Loedown is offline  
Old 29 March 2010, 09:35   #24
8bitbubsy
Registered User

8bitbubsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Norway
Age: 28
Posts: 1,254
Send a message via MSN to 8bitbubsy
First off, that's not a 512kB A500. It's an A1200, which means 2MB or even more. And these are huge sound samples (many of them are probably up to the max 64kB protracker limit), I really doubt they all fit in 512kB....

And he use an advanced mixer with sweep effects and stuff, there's no way you get this sound from a pure A500. Well you can, but the bass and stuff won't be that deep and good. Guess what makes them do that? The mixer he use.. The description in the video is lying and misleading. Amiga 500 sure sounds good for its time, but trying to squeeze it in the new generation that it 'can do this amazing club sound' is very wrong.

Nevertheless, I've heard some of his MODs on my Amiga though, he's pretty good at making house music.
8bitbubsy is offline  
Old 29 March 2010, 11:58   #25
onkelarie
Registered User

onkelarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Spijkenisse / the Netherlands
Age: 47
Posts: 444
Yes, he uses filtersweeps and glitches every now and then. however, I find it quite unique that some people think the Youtube movies have better soundquality than a native A500/A1200 Keep in mind that the Amiga's and mixer are hooked up to a loud PA system in those movies and with the right EQ adjustment, deep loud basses are not a problem from a native Amiga. On top of that, Ctrix uses monochannels on the mixer, all panned centered, thus eliminating the left/right problem.

And why is the description misleading and lying? Here's an excerpt from it:

"just the built in outputs being mixed externally by a DJ mixer. The entire set (much more than just this tune!) easily fits on 4 x 880k floppy disks.
The music is playing out of Protracker 2.1a booted from a floppy with a striped down operating system in order to get enough RAM to play the tunes."

He already mentioned that the soundsource is Amiga, **being mixed externally by a DJ mixer**. That's not lying. That's admitting that the soundsource passes DSP.

More info on how he achieves such 'his' sound can be found here:
http://www.syntaxparty.org/ctrix/
onkelarie is offline  
Old 29 March 2010, 12:04   #26
8bitbubsy
Registered User

8bitbubsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Norway
Age: 28
Posts: 1,254
Send a message via MSN to 8bitbubsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by onkelarie
however, I find it quite unique that some people think the Youtube movies have better soundquality than a native A500/A1200
No offense, but that's fact in many situations. MODs are often 8kHz 8 bit samples upsampled with no interpolation. And it doesn't sound better when the final output channels are panned 100% left/right. It's like screaming out how raw the sound is. Youtube is aprox. 96-128kbit 44kHz 16 bit, imagine how much nicer sounds you can put in that. And if you're one of the bias-based guys that thinks 128kbit is bad no-matter what, then it's reverse-placebo (or something like that). 128kbit can sound very nice, but a jump up to 192kbit is noticable in many cases. More than that is often hard to notice for the average person.

I'm not an anti-paula guy, I'm just an Amigan while I also can comprehend that paula isn't a special chip anymore. It can sound nice if you do 28kHz 14 bit software mixing, but that's not interesting. It's like having a cheap sound card.. The raw sound is more interesting imo, and it's way more common on the Amiga. Protracker does hardware mixing in 8 bit 22-28kHz.

Paula + Equalizers and mixers != native Amiga sound. Well it kind of is, but you get what I mean.
Try to sample a non-chip (not sinus, but a more advanced sample) bass sound in protracker on an A500 and connect it to a PA system and crank up the volume. You'll get a noisy and distorted bass sound.

Last edited by 8bitbubsy; 29 March 2010 at 12:13.
8bitbubsy is offline  
Old 29 March 2010, 13:17   #27
onkelarie
Registered User

onkelarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Spijkenisse / the Netherlands
Age: 47
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy View Post
No offense, but that's fact in many situations. MODs are often 8kHz 8 bit samples upsampled with no interpolation. And it doesn't sound better when the final output channels are panned 100% left/right. It's like screaming out how raw the sound is. Youtube is aprox. 96-128kbit 44kHz 16 bit, imagine how much nicer sounds you can put in that. And if you're one of the bias-based guys that thinks 128kbit is bad no-matter what, then it's reverse-placebo (or something like that). 128kbit can sound very nice, but a jump up to 192kbit is noticable in many cases. More than that is often hard to notice for the average person.

I'm not an anti-paula guy, I'm just an Amigan while I also can comprehend that paula isn't a special chip anymore. It can sound nice if you do 28kHz 14 bit software mixing, but that's not interesting. It's like having a cheap sound card.. The raw sound is more interesting imo, and it's way more common on the Amiga. Protracker does hardware mixing in 8 bit 22-28kHz.

Paula + Equalizers and mixers != native Amiga sound. Well it kind of is, but you get what I mean.
Try to sample a non-chip (not sinus, but a more advanced sample) bass sound in protracker on an A500 and connect it to a PA system and crank up the volume. You'll get a noisy and distorted bass sound.
No offence taken and thank you for pointing out all the bitrates and such, but I'm aware of those, I'm a professional musician and own a studio for +20 years

But the point I tried to make is that Youtube movies don't always contain studio quality sound. In this case, someone just taped the lot with a mic and thus ending up in a Youtube movie. You can slap any bitrate on it you want in that case, the bottleneck is the recorder in this case (probably a mobile phone or something).

It's just friggin' awesome he uses Protracker as his native sequencer, making us all proud we share that same passion: the Amiga.
onkelarie is offline  
Old 29 March 2010, 15:33   #28
8bitbubsy
Registered User

8bitbubsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Norway
Age: 28
Posts: 1,254
Send a message via MSN to 8bitbubsy
Then as a professional musician know your sayings.
"some people think the Youtube movies have better soundquality than a native A500/A1200" is a rubbish statement, because many many youtube videos does have sound captured from either a good mic, or from a song (studio).

Enough of this tho', I just found the statement irritating.
8bitbubsy is offline  
Old 29 March 2010, 15:35   #29
Loedown
Precious & fragile things

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,927
I've thrown three of my own tracks in The Zone, two made with Amiga 2000 and Sound Studio 1.03C, the other is recent and made using FL Studio.
Loedown is offline  
Old 29 March 2010, 16:30   #30
Paul_s
needs more ice cream

Paul_s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Amigaville
Age: 39
Posts: 3,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy View Post
First off, that's not a 512kB A500. It's an A1200, which means 2MB or even more.
The A500 is to his right hand side. But yep there is also a 1200 there.
Paul_s is offline  
Old 29 March 2010, 17:04   #31
8bitbubsy
Registered User

8bitbubsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Norway
Age: 28
Posts: 1,254
Send a message via MSN to 8bitbubsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_s View Post
The A500 is to his right hand side. But yep there is also a 1200 there.
I didn't see that one... I guess it's because my eyes spots a fresh A1200 within a second!
8bitbubsy is offline  
Old 29 March 2010, 17:12   #32
TCD
Registered User

TCD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Germany
Age: 39
Posts: 24,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loedown View Post
I've thrown three of my own tracks in The Zone, two made with Amiga 2000 and Sound Studio 1.03C, the other is recent and made using FL Studio.
Nice ambient tracks you have there Really nice sound on the two Sound Studio ones
TCD is offline  
Old 29 March 2010, 17:15   #33
Paul_s
needs more ice cream

Paul_s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Amigaville
Age: 39
Posts: 3,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy View Post
I didn't see that one... I guess it's because my eyes spots a fresh A1200 within a second!
I thought the same as you first! But the 500 is slightly off camera
Paul_s is offline  
Old 29 March 2010, 20:52   #34
desiv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 1,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy View Post
Enough of this tho', I just found the statement irritating.
How dare he state that some people think something that may or may not be true!!!

Too much caffeine?

desiv
desiv is offline  
Old 30 March 2010, 04:28   #35
Loedown
Precious & fragile things

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post
Nice ambient tracks you have there Really nice sound on the two Sound Studio ones
Thankyou very much, they are by now very old, from around 1992 - 1995
Loedown is offline  
Old 03 April 2010, 15:24   #36
wilshy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SouthEast-ish UK
Posts: 362
Send a message via AIM to wilshy Send a message via MSN to wilshy
It looks more like one of the new Behringer mixers than a DJM800, just to correct what was said above. Loaded with effects. But just to pick up Horace a little, there wasn't that many effects used. Mainly the ubiquitous filtering, which become so popular with DJs when Allen & Heath decided to give DJs a filter knob on the Xone 62. Overused.

Quote:
I've managed to DJ for many years without the need to use effects that much, so it is a lie to say "as much as anyone would use it in a live performance." - something like that is totally dependent on the individual performer.
Agreed. I'm never one for filtering when DJing. Creative EQ use has always been the way to do it. A lot of DJs cheated when effects become available, allowing them to blend 2 tunes easier with a simple delay as you take the crossfader over to the next tune. It can be used creatively but more often than not used to cover up shoddy mixing. I've always kept it simple, 2 or 3 decks, EQ and tunes.

Delays are used alot in that vid, with a smattering of other effects near the end. Not a bad tune, not my cuppa though. Essentially just dancing around to his own tune on a sequencer with the odd twiddle of EQ and effects.
wilshy is offline  
Old 03 April 2010, 15:49   #37
wilshy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SouthEast-ish UK
Posts: 362
Send a message via AIM to wilshy Send a message via MSN to wilshy
I should say though, really nice to see the Amiga still being used in live performances. So absolutely fair play to this guy for doing it. Takes real commitment, or just not working ever to have the time & commitment to use the Amiga over other newer studio equipment. Being a bit of a music equipment & software whore I really couldn't work on the Amiga again.
wilshy is offline  
Old 03 April 2010, 16:33   #38
Maren
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: *
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy View Post
No offense, but that's fact in many situations. MODs are often 8kHz 8 bit samples upsampled with no interpolation
Upsampling is a necessary evil when outputting at a sample rate matching that of the audio source is not possible. You gain absolutely nothing by upsampling, plus, proper interpolation in these cases is not intended to "enhance" the original sound but to make it seem like it wasn't being upsampled.
Maren is offline  
Old 04 April 2010, 01:27   #39
KONEY
Vampire 2 Amiga Musician

KONEY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Venice - Italy
Posts: 295
Send a message via Skype™ to KONEY
Personally I don't care if he using external hardware or not, everybody does even in "modern" lives with laptops so it would be perfectly expected.

What I don't like is that everything is pre-arranged. He is mixing ready songs, not doing a live. he nearly never touches the Amigas for skipping blocks or muting tracks, only acts the mixer (and even never looks at the monitor!). He could have done exactly the same things by recording the two Amiga's outputs onto two CDrs and using two CDJs decks.

Nice vibe, anyway, and surely nicely produced sounds!
KONEY is offline  
Old 04 April 2010, 02:37   #40
Hungry Horace
Wipe-Out Enthusiast

Hungry Horace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: .
Age: 36
Posts: 2,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by KONEY View Post
Personally I don't care if he using external hardware or not, everybody does even in "modern" lives with laptops so it would be perfectly expected.
no one is debating that.

just dont go claiming its "all amiga" when it clearly isnt.

wilshy - perhaps i was unclear, when i said it was effects heavy, i wasnt trying to state that 101 different effects were used, just that there is generally effects used throughout. (i dont agree with you though that it is "the odd twiddle of EQ and effects." - it is more than that to achieve this kind of result, you even highlighted it yourself in talking about the use of delays. you arent the only qualified muso here you know - i too have worked on professional productions )

Quote:
He could have done exactly the same things by recording the two Amiga's outputs onto two CDrs and using two CDJs decks.
agreed, but it is still nice that it was original hardware being used for playback!
Hungry Horace is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Amazing Computing for the Commodore Amiga Galaxy AMR contributions 14 20 May 2010 04:23
Amazing things you've done with your Amiga mr_a500 Amiga scene 67 05 July 2007 20:45
CodyJarrett's Amazing Top 20 Amiga Games CodyJarrett Nostalgia & memories 204 12 April 2007 07:47
Bloody WinUAE, bloody ADFs, bloody Workbench... Shrub New to Emulation or Amiga scene 1 27 July 2005 02:21
Looking for bloody/gory amiga ADF's ;) Mad Mark request.Old Rare Games 14 22 March 2002 00:40

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.28023 seconds with 11 queries