English Amiga Board Amiga Lore


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.WinUAE

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 22 February 2010, 20:56   #1
bLAZER
Awesome to the max

bLAZER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gothenburg / Sweden
Age: 41
Posts: 946
Sound channels switched?

I discovered that a couple of games seem to have their ssound channels switched:

Over the Net (1990)(Genias)
and Archon (bot 1 and 2 as I remember)

Tried both adf and WHDLoad version of Over the Net and it would be more normal to play the ball sound in the left channel when it's on the left players side and right channel for the right players' side, however it's the opposite. The same in Archon, when shooting, the bullet sound travels from right to left speaker when it travels from left to right on the screen. So is this a WinUAE bug or is this the same on a real Amiga?
bLAZER is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 23 February 2010, 08:18   #2
rsn8887
Registered User
rsn8887's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 726
I can confirm this. Yes in Archon on the real Amiga right corresponds to right and left to left, but on WinUAE it is swapped.

It might be a little bug that stayed in WinUAE for a long time.

I also tested using the game SWIV on A500 quickstart. In SWIV on the real Amiga, sounds on the left of the screen come out of the left speaker and vice versa, but on WinUAE, again, sound channels are swapped. So I think they are always swapped, not just on certain games.

I just set the swap audio channels option in the GUI to Paula to correct for it for now...
rsn8887 is offline  
Old 23 February 2010, 09:45   #3
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,518
They were swapped in 0.9x because it was confirmed broken at that time.

I am not going to anything anymore without more informatin than "it works on real Amiga" (there is much more than Amiga that can have effect on sound..)
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 23 February 2010, 14:39   #4
thomas
Registered User
thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,507
Quote:
on the real Amiga right corresponds to right and left to left
"the real Amiga" is ambiguous as there were differences. I know that on my A500 and my A4000 channels 1+4 are left and channels 2+3 are right. But I remember the discussion Toni mentioned where people said on their Amigas it was swapped.

BTW, there is a "swap channels" option in WinUAE, why don't you use it ?
thomas is offline  
Old 23 February 2010, 14:51   #5
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,518
Paula only have 2 analog output lines, 1+4 and 2+3 mixing happens inside Paula.

Perhaps there are real bug(s), differences between Amiga models, scart adapters with swapped channels, any kind of bad wiring, was never fully tested with stereo output.. Too many possibilies.

-> I want much more information this time before I do any changes
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 23 February 2010, 16:00   #6
thomas
Registered User
thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,507
Quote:
Perhaps there are real bug(s), differences between Amiga models, scart adapters with swapped channels, any kind of bad wiring,
... or wrong colors. On my Amigas right channel is white and left channel is red. Usually right should be red and left should be white or black.
thomas is offline  
Old 23 February 2010, 19:39   #7
bLAZER
Awesome to the max

bLAZER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gothenburg / Sweden
Age: 41
Posts: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas View Post
BTW, there is a "swap channels" option in WinUAE, why don't you use it ?
Sure, I was just checking what was going on, if it was a bug in WinUAE or not... but it doesn't seem so then.
bLAZER is offline  
Old 23 February 2010, 19:48   #8
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,518
It still can be a bug but I am waiting for better test program
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 23 February 2010, 23:29   #9
bLAZER
Awesome to the max

bLAZER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gothenburg / Sweden
Age: 41
Posts: 946
Aha... and what kind of program would that be?
bLAZER is offline  
Old 24 February 2010, 01:55   #10
ceztko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by bLAZER View Post
Aha... and what kind of program would that be?
Document any inconsistency by testing on a real amiga and providing a reliable recording (be careful with wiring). Just in case, take a picture of RCA connectors of your amiga
ceztko is offline  
Old 24 February 2010, 01:55   #11
rsn8887
Registered User
rsn8887's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas View Post
BTW, there is a "swap channels" option in WinUAE, why don't you use it ?
uhm As I said in the post you were quoting, I am using that option!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bLAZER View Post
Aha... and what kind of program would that be?
I suppose maybe one such "program" could be:
- get stock A500 and a copy of Archon or SWIV.
- hook it up to stereo, making sure red is connected to red and white to white on the audio connection.
- verify that speakers are positioned correctly and not swapped.
- check if the sound of monsters on the right side of the screen comes out of the right speaker

I remember distinctly that it worked like that on my old original A500 with an original copy of Archon, and same with Swiv.

If enough people test it, we might be able to nail it. Maybe it really varies from model to model?
rsn8887 is offline  
Old 24 February 2010, 02:20   #12
PowerPie5000
Miggy Ate My Hamster!
PowerPie5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Blackpool, UK
Posts: 1,561
Well i can confirm Swiv and Archon sound exactly the same on my A500, A600 and my A1200... left is left and right is right

Both the A600 and A1200 have the white socket for left audio and red socket for right audio... but both sockets on my A500 are red (looking from the back the left port is right channel and the right port is left channel ).

A500 board is rev 5
A600 board is rev 1.5
A1200 board is rev 1D1

I have no idea if the channels are any different for the A1000, A2000, A3000 and A4000

Last edited by PowerPie5000; 24 February 2010 at 16:43.
PowerPie5000 is offline  
Old 24 February 2010, 11:18   #13
pmc
rebooting...
pmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 1,595
According to the HRM: audio channels 0 & 3 == left side stereo jack and audio channels 1 & 2 == right side stero jack.

Is it not better to just go by the HRM for this or am I missing the point...?
pmc is offline  
Old 24 February 2010, 11:39   #14
thomas
Registered User
thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmc View Post
According to the HRM: audio channels 0 & 3 == left side stereo jack and audio channels 1 & 2 == right side stero jack.

Is it not better to just go by the HRM for this or am I missing the point...?

I already mentioned: there are inconsistencies in descriptions and hardware.

Channels 0 & 3 are connected to the red jack which is located on the right when looking from the back and 1 & 3 are connected to the white jack which is located right when looking from the front.

Users can get confused by the misleading colors. And users usually don't read the HRM.
thomas is offline  
Old 25 February 2010, 17:44   #15
Photon
Moderator
Photon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hult / Sweden
Posts: 4,437
One test could be to use 'the right version of Protracker' <-- as I remember at least one of them (I forget which one) has the channel tracks in the order LLRR instead of LRRL as already mentioned. The A1200 numpad-patched version 2.3D, and V3.15 both from Aminet are correct and can be used for testing on your real Amiga(s).

I agree with everything Thomas has said in this thread.

If you happen to have a special Amiga (Paula) model in your room that play one or two games with swapped channels, eeehhh I'm all for correct emulation of all Amigas, but I'm also against special case coding/patching, and this is on the borderline to 'utterly unimportant'...
Photon is offline  
Old 27 February 2010, 13:28   #16
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,518
I wrote stupid audio channel testing program. (attached).

It plays short "sample" from address zero, rotates all channels until left mouse button is pressed. Must be run in CLI.

It seems channels really are reversed but I still won't do any changes until someone finds/remembers the reason for 0.9.2 channel "fix".. (EDIT: it was 1.0.0b1)
Attached Files
File Type: zip audiochannel.zip (375 Bytes, 120 views)

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 27 February 2010 at 13:44.
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 21 March 2010, 12:37   #17
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,518
It is a bug but it wasn't that simple bug..

Channels are only swapped if stereo separation or stereo delay is enabled.
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 30 September 2014, 12:46   #18
hexaae
Registered User

hexaae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Italy
Age: 41
Posts: 740
Also Bubba'n'Stix is affected (WinUAE 2.6.1/2.8.1)...

Last edited by hexaae; 30 September 2014 at 12:53.
hexaae is offline  
Old 01 October 2014, 15:12   #19
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,518
Yes? "affected" means what? It makes no difference what program is running.. and this was fixed ages ago..
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 02 October 2014, 19:54   #20
hexaae
Registered User

hexaae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Italy
Age: 41
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Yes? "affected" means what? It makes no difference what program is running.. and this was fixed ages ago..
That I hear the stereo audio channels reversed when Stereo Separation is set (I use 50%)... If you say it was fixed, maybe it's the game buggy by itself?

Bubba'n'Stix WHD: http://www.whdownload.com/games.php?...hButton=Search

Last edited by hexaae; 04 October 2014 at 10:23.
hexaae is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is there a way to output all 4 sound channels of an amiga to separate outs? Kola New to Emulation or Amiga scene 6 19 September 2010 15:20
A600: missing sound channels cosam support.Hardware 28 23 May 2010 06:43
More that 4 Sound Channels??? Dragon3d support.WinUAE 8 01 February 2008 17:30
shufflepuck cafe 4 channels sound is crazy turrican3 support.WinUAE 5 08 November 2007 15:41
help sound 4 channels turrican3 support.WinUAE 37 13 April 2007 09:17

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.32554 seconds with 12 queries