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Old 07 January 2010, 19:49   #141
frank_b
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Well, I remember a lot of people back in the 80's/90's developing for the Amiga because it was fun. I, personally, hope this is just as much fun to develop for. The Amiga community is fairly creative.
In the 80s the Amiga was way ahead of other desktop machines. It had several unique selling points. The hardware to an assembler coder was a work of art and the system software rocked. The PC was primitive by comparison.
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Old 07 January 2010, 19:51   #142
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Well, I remember a lot of people back in the 80's/90's developing for the Amiga because it was fun. I, personally, hope this is just as much fun to develop for. The Amiga community is fairly creative.
Different and better is good. Different and not demonstrably better is not good unless you want to start competing on price.
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Old 07 January 2010, 22:57   #143
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Go and read Dave Haynie's comment on Amiga world.net.
Can you point me to it please?
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Old 07 January 2010, 23:36   #144
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Can you point me to it please?
Hi. Sure.

Here's the link http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost...&postcount=471
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Old 07 January 2010, 23:41   #145
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Cheers dude thanks.
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Old 07 January 2010, 23:55   #146
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Problem is it's catch 22:

Who'll use an OS with very little, or worse, no decent software?
I have to agree. Every "new Amiga" has essentially the same problem that the CD32 had: not enough hardware owners for most companies to produce new software, not enough software to justify owning the hardware. (Unless you really love Amigas.)
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Old 07 January 2010, 23:57   #147
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i believe hyperion are really smarts peoples and i'm sure they know what they are doing, wait and see what will happen.......
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Old 08 January 2010, 00:53   #148
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Nothing I read in Dave Haynie's post seemed to be negative. He stated 'Still, that would make this the first ""Amiga" sold in years that compares to ANYTHING still being sold in the PC market. ' and he is curious about the Xena co-processor and what Hyperion intends to do with it.

While people may question Hyperion's decision to go with the single-core Xmos chip to coincide with the dual-core ppc you should think about the fact this would be their first system. If they pull it off then you can expect them to shell out 20 bucks per quad-core xmos chip. Money has to be a concern so it makes sense to work out the kinks on the single-core xmos co-processor before going all in on the quad-core. Considering they also have had to upgrade OS4 to support multi-core processors, SMP, etc they don't want to get in over their heads. This setup makes sense for the time being.
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Old 08 January 2010, 01:14   #149
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Well he reffered to the CPU as having netbook like perfomance. That's pretty negative! Netbooks are using the lowest performance Intel CPUs and aren't known for being fast.

He also commented as I said that the CPU has far more grunt than the xmos. He's not sure what they're trying to do with it and neither am I as the host CPU is much more powerful.
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Old 08 January 2010, 01:20   #150
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The Xmos seems like a reprogrammable southbridge.
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Old 08 January 2010, 01:25   #151
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Originally Posted by frank_b View Post
Well he reffered to the CPU as having netbook like perfomance. That's pretty negative! Netbooks are using the lowest performance Intel CPUs and aren't known for being fast.

He also commented as I said that the CPU has far more grunt than the xmos. He's not sure what they're trying to do with it and neither am I as the host CPU is much more powerful.
Really, I'm more excited as to what the community will do with it.

I'm not about to worry about the performance of the as-yet-unnamed processor (probably the titan) mainly because this machine will be running an OS that has much less overhead than windows.
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Old 08 January 2010, 02:56   #152
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frank b: You'll probably end up buying an X1000 sooner or later as all of us will.
In worst case it will be a grand end of story for Amiga.
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Old 08 January 2010, 16:15   #153
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frank b: You'll probably end up buying an X1000 sooner or later as all of us will.
In worst case it will be a grand end of story for Amiga.
I doubt it but never say never

Frank
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Old 08 January 2010, 17:35   #154
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hmmm ok I'll bite!..so can you please enlighten us as to what "you" think is the biggest thing happening right now in the world of Amiga
I think you missunderstood me.

AmigaOS on x86 would have been that thing, it would seriously have become the single most important happening in the Amiga world EVER!

BUT...

I can understand Hyperion needs cash and need to think up a creative solution to brand their hardware to certain niche-markets, but the main problem is the official AmigaOS built from the true WB3.1 sources are heading into obscure computer hardware again.

I dont want Amiga to head into obscurity, I want Workbench to compete on the desktop and grow, if new users did not have to go over the step of paying 1000 euro for an obscure system (and some people estimate the new motherboard will cost 2000 euro) it would be MUCH easier to grow the user base.

But you know what....

You dont have to wait 8 years untill Hyperion decides to port to x86, there is already an alternative here. It lacks big backup from community, from user base and from AmigaPPC zealots but it is the true Amiga x86 system built by hardcore Amiga fans since the middle of the 90'ies.

So it lacks the 100% completed feel of AmigaOS but it shares a kind of next-gen thinking with MorphOS (which I think is a bit more impressive than 4.1).

Yes, it is the true, AROS is already AmigaOS x86 and it should be praised as the true successor of Workbench, a true next-gen Amiga operating system for anyone who wants to run Amiga apps in 3GHz+.

First step, dont call it AROS, call it AmigaOS x86, the true AmigaOS.
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Old 08 January 2010, 20:19   #155
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Originally Posted by cv643d View Post

I dont want Amiga to head into obscurity, I want Workbench to compete on the desktop and grow, if new users did not have to go over the step of paying 1000 euro for an obscure system (and some people estimate the new motherboard will cost 2000 euro) it would be MUCH easier to grow the user base.
Hyperion has already stated the product should be released before the 25th anniversary of the A1000 and should be cheaper than the A1000.

Now there are still many unknowns to this system that will make or break it. What improvements have been made to OS4.1 to accommodate this new system? What CPU is it going to have? Are there going to be enough units to meet demand? Will it take 6-12 months to meet demand? They need to be aggressive and continuously upgrade and improve the product. A 6-12 month deployment will kill that. So we'll just have to wait and see.
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Old 08 January 2010, 21:30   #156
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Nothing I read in Dave Haynie's post seemed to be negative. He stated 'Still, that would make this the first ""Amiga" sold in years that compares to ANYTHING still being sold in the PC market. ' and he is curious about the Xena co-processor and what Hyperion intends to do with it.

While people may question Hyperion's decision to go with the single-core Xmos chip to coincide with the dual-core ppc you should think about the fact this would be their first system. If they pull it off then you can expect them to shell out 20 bucks per quad-core xmos chip. Money has to be a concern so it makes sense to work out the kinks on the single-core xmos co-processor before going all in on the quad-core. Considering they also have had to upgrade OS4 to support multi-core processors, SMP, etc they don't want to get in over their heads. This setup makes sense for the time being.
Some more quotes from Mr Haynie.

"I can't imagine how this is going to be anything but overpriced and underwhelming. "

"they ought not to call it "Amiga"... there was a time, at least, when that name really meant something, and something good. "

"And think of this... even modern netbook-class performance would be a new thing in the post-Commodore world of Amiga. None of the "Amiga" hardware so far has even made it that far. In fact, today's cellphones probably have faster CPUs."

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthre...106#post537106

This is extremely damning IMHO.
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Old 08 January 2010, 23:51   #157
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Some more quotes from Mr Haynie.

"I can't imagine how this is going to be anything but overpriced and underwhelming. "

"they ought not to call it "Amiga"... there was a time, at least, when that name really meant something, and something good. "

"And think of this... even modern netbook-class performance would be a new thing in the post-Commodore world of Amiga. None of the "Amiga" hardware so far has even made it that far. In fact, today's cellphones probably have faster CPUs."

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthre...106#post537106

This is extremely damning IMHO.
Dave is like anyone else in the amiga community. He feels skeptical at yet another 'announcement' regarding a new machine. At one time he was in favor of what Amiga Inc were trying to do but soon realized they were full of it. At least we can say Hyperion has released OS4. At least they participate in community discussion. Of course anything over a few hundred dollars is going to feel overpriced to anyone who is satisfied with his PC.

His comments are not damning. They are expected from a former Commodore engineer. His last comment is merely outlining that a new amiga with netbook performance is better than anything that came before so at least this new machine is a vast improvement.

Does this machine make the Amiga relevant again? Most likely not. Does it give the Amiga community the best option to run AmigaOS4? Yes it does. By a longshot. It could be a good start to become a niche market once again. It all depends if Hyperion has the resources or not. What they do after the X1000 is the big question. They won't have a faster PPC to turn to. They will need something else.

But really, everything is just speculation at this point. We don't even know the full details of the system. Let's all just wait and see what happens in the coming months. There are many projects out there to be excited about.

I'd just like to finish off with saying you dont go through a couple of years of court battles and huge lawyer fees for an OS with a userbase the size of the AmigaOS4 community. They had plans.
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Old 08 January 2010, 23:51   #158
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Hyperion has already stated the product should be released before the 25th anniversary of the A1000 and should be cheaper than the A1000.

Now there are still many unknowns to this system that will make or break it. What improvements have been made to OS4.1 to accommodate this new system? What CPU is it going to have? Are there going to be enough units to meet demand? Will it take 6-12 months to meet demand? They need to be aggressive and continuously upgrade and improve the product. A 6-12 month deployment will kill that. So we'll just have to wait and see.
A1000 in todays value would cost 2200 euro, so its going to be cheaper than 2200 euro, that we know
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Old 09 January 2010, 00:05   #159
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I'd just like to finish off with saying you dont go through a couple of years of court battles and huge lawyer fees for an OS with a userbase the size of the AmigaOS4 community. They had plans.
I dont know, I get mixed feelings from the input on AW.net from the devs.

I dont get the feeling they are burning with passion for the Amiga, somehow it seems it is more a burden than something fun to do.

So I have been trying to understand their motive, yes they must have spent fortune on the lawyer fees, for what?

It was my asumption, that when winning the court case Hyperion would go full speed ahead and spread AmigaOS to as many users as possible with passion, vision and a positive tone on the future of Workbench. What I noticed though, was quietness, and someone mentioned the MAP, that must be the plan.

I asked myself why? Why be quiet when having won years of legal battle, now must be the time of any time to climb up a house and scream with positive voice that Amiga is back for the future, lets dedicate 100% with the community to build back Amiga to what it was and spread it to users.

Usually, in business, the customer is always right. So I can understand devs on aw.net are not represantive of the company they are working for when they are participating on the forum. But in this situation we have had during the fall/winter when too little information leaked out to the community they should expect to be bombarded with questions and not send out negativity when the community do not respond in ways they would expect. We are not robots, we are amigans. When people of a company sends out negative vibes it makes you wonder how is it to work in the HQ of the company?

Thats why I mentioned asslickers in my post above, sometimes I get the impression people post positive stuff in threads on false basis, just to cheer the devs up and not focus on all the negative comments, but the truth is, some of the negative comments contains the truth, the truth is the community is what have held Amiga alive. If no company is working on AmigaOS anymore, the community will take matter in their own hands, just look at AROS and where it came from.

IMHO the plans -as mentioned in the post before this one- do not make sense to me as an Amiga user for more than 20 years
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Old 09 January 2010, 01:48   #160
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I dont know, I get mixed feelings from the input on AW.net from the devs.

I dont get the feeling they are burning with passion for the Amiga, somehow it seems it is more a burden than something fun to do.

IMHO the plans -as mentioned in the post before this one- do not make sense to me as an Amiga user for more than 20 years
Well, they did announce right after the court battle they had a 'Most Ambitious Project' which would be announced at the end of the year. Which they did. I know it's frustrating they drop this bomb but seem to offer nothing new. My take is they are still in negotiations with partners and will not announce prices till they know what they are dealing with.

After all, if this fails, it will be the final nail in Hyperion's coffin. They are taking a big risk here. Without doing this right there is no point in continuing efforts on the AmigaOS. If this succeeds, well, anything can happen. Here's hyperion's chance to allow the OS to be viable, albeit to the diehard amiga fans. If it gives them the funding to continue improvising then it's all good for us.
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