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Old 02 November 2009, 13:55   #21
Photon
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Not really. Perhaps with scandoubler for someone using it for serious work.

My interest in it is finding a flat screen about the size of an A1200

But that screenshot with the fonts in a 4:3 mode... extremely bad filtering. Usually the trademark of Chinese lo-res screens. Redskull, this is on a G2420? A 1920x1080 panel? Can't believe it.

In the Swedish thread they made it seem like every single Amiga-resolution worked in 4:3, btw?

I'm looking at a G2220, which goes down to 24KHz. Any hope?
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Old 02 November 2009, 13:59   #22
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Image probably will be very blurry (320x256 upscanned to 1280x1024 :/ )
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Old 02 November 2009, 14:17   #23
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Upscaled. But I know what you mean. One should be able to disable scaling filter. It's possible on some monitors, via the menu.

But really, even if 640x512 *WASN'T* the perfect resolution for 1280x1024, the result should be better. On G2420, it's probably "filling the screen vertically" (something x 1080, not 1024?) causing it. Possibly, in 640x540 overscan, if you can test. Probably not.

But for a 1920 rez screen, this really looks like they downscale it to a random resolution below 500x500, scale "whatever" resolution to that, put a blur over it to cover up their mistake, and stretch the blurred low-res pixels to "whatever".

Tell me how it is possible in 2009.

I need huge blurred screenfuls of artifacts zoomed up in my face like I need an injection of battery acid.

Last edited by Photon; 02 November 2009 at 14:26.
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Old 02 November 2009, 14:23   #24
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Heh, it won't look any good anyway. Most monitors correctly upscaled only typical resolutions like 640x480 800x600 etc. I have Benq 19'' at work and I did some testing using custom resolutions. Results were bizarre.
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Old 02 November 2009, 15:16   #25
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Quote:
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But that screenshot with the fonts in a 4:3 mode... extremely bad filtering. This is on a G2420? A 1920x1080 panel? Can't believe it.
That picture looks like it is taken with a mobile phone, it is dark, blurry. How can you tell if any distortion is the monitor or the camera on the phone or even the JPEG compression etc?

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In the Swedish thread they made it seem like every single Amiga-resolution worked in 4:3, btw?
You sure? I am inclined to believe RedSkullDC. Ask them on the forum if it is true and how they switched to 4:3 mode. Ask them which revision monitor they have. Perhaps it was an added feature?
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Old 02 November 2009, 16:21   #26
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You can ask them all these questions, they speak English there.

Are you being silly or just trying to piss me off? That's typical crappy scaling chip artifacts you see there. You haven't seen that before?

JPEG compression moves pixels around?? Are you kidding me? Look at the logo and icons on the screen case.

You need to stop this.
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Old 02 November 2009, 16:29   #27
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Are you being silly or just trying to piss me off? You need to stop this.
I was just thinking the same of your last few posts in various threads. Lets assume we're both having miscommunication problems eh?

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That's typical crappy scaling chip artifacts you see there.
For me it is too dark really to see anything clearly. Plus the photo was taken at an oblique angle, never a good thing with LCD?

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You haven't seen that before?
I've never had an LCD before, and the ones I've used have always been at native resolution.

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Originally Posted by Photon View Post
JPEG compression moves pixels around?? Are you kidding me? Look at the logo and icons on the screen case.
Logo?? "Screen case"?? Are we looking at the same image?

Last edited by alexh; 02 November 2009 at 16:43.
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Old 02 November 2009, 17:19   #28
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Yeah, check f.ex. the 'i' vs the 'W' in AmigaWorld.

alexh, I am negative about crappy things, but prefer to attack them with information when I get the urge. You make shit up just to have something to argue about, such as in this example. I don't care about that, but lately it's me you have targeted, which pisses me off.

You admit you've never owned an LCD before, yet something is wrong with my arguments. 'It could be camera/JPEG'. Yes, in fantasy-land, and if you've never tried to display Amiga on an LCD before.

I question a perhaps-perhaps-not promising product, you question ME. Please feel free to do so, but with arguments.

I've asked on Safir about the scaling, but any LCD I get for my lovely Amigas will have to have zero artifacts - it's bad enough with picture update problems on LCDs already.
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Old 02 November 2009, 17:33   #29
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Yeah, check the 'i' vs the 'W' in AmigaWorld.
Yeah, I can see it now.

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You make shit up just to have something to argue about, such as in this example.
I didn't make anything up I asked a question. Which was "How can you tell if any distortion is the monitor?" All you had to do was say something like "If you look at position X,Y you can see effect Z which I am certain is a scaling artifact" and I would have understood. You tried to do it and I did not understand where you were asking me to look. And you seemed to see this miscommunication as some sort of attack. I thought I had a bad inferiority complex

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it's bad enough with picture update problems on LCDs already.
The scan rate conversion? 50Hz->60Hz? Never seen it on an LCD. Jens said something about Indivision AGA supporting intermediate frequencies which limited the effect but I think I'd have to see it to understand how bad it was.
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Old 02 November 2009, 17:42   #30
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Picture update speed.

I just told you how someone who doesn't make stuff up, but knows stuff, about cameras, jpeg, and LCD monitors, can see that it's typical cheap scaling chip artifacts, and can also see that it is _not_ a camera or jpeg artifact, even if that wasn't the case.
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Old 02 November 2009, 17:43   #31
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Needs more commas.



,
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Old 02 November 2009, 22:33   #32
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Hi Photon, et al.

[quote=Photon;611279
But that screenshot with the fonts in a 4:3 mode... extremely bad filtering. Usually the trademark of Chinese lo-res screens. Redskull, this is on a G2420? A 1920x1080 panel? Can't believe it.

In the Swedish thread they made it seem like every single Amiga-resolution worked in 4:3, btw?

I'm looking at a G2220, which goes down to 24KHz. Any hope?[/quote]

I have a pretty shitty camera, time I upgraded...

Details from the box:
Name: G2420HD
Model: ET-0027-B
Mfr Date: July2009
s/n: ETM7915155SL0
rev:00-130-BA

I have checked and double checked:
15kHz screens will only display in 16:9
On screen menu option for "FULL"/"ASPECT" is stuck on "FULL" when in 15kHz modes.

31kHz modes allow "ASPECT" mode to be selected.

--------

Pics should speak for themselves, unless I have gone to a great deal of trouble to create fakes

Cheers,
Red
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Old 02 November 2009, 23:04   #33
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Useful info, someone asked for exact model number in the other thread, I will forward to the Swe thread also.

Well, I'm out then. Or to be specific - I couldn't live with the stretching+scaling, and if I have to get a scandoubler anyway, there might be some 1280x1024 panel or smaller that does 31KHz 50 Hz, possibly but unlikely with lesser scaling artifacts.
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Old 03 November 2009, 08:02   #34
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Those upscaling artifacts are pretty common on wide screen LCD units, I'm afraid.

The very same with my China-made "Fujilink A1901W" (it's a 19" Wide Screen). It does PAL & NTSC low & high res. Just don't like DBL modes of any kind (using an A600 you don't have VGAonly, sigh).

Need pictures?
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Old 03 November 2009, 08:42   #35
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I'll bet screen will be ugly just like other LCDs
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Old 03 November 2009, 09:11   #36
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Just don't like DBL modes of any kind (using an A600 you don't have VGAonly, sigh).
I didn't know they had DBL modes even.
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Old 03 November 2009, 13:44   #37
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Super Denise has DBL modes.. So A500+, A600, A3000..

They are terribly slow on ECS machines though.
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Old 03 November 2009, 17:46   #38
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Idea: "Complete List of Commodore Amiga Screen Modes". Unless it's already been done? I guess it shouldn't take that long with an A4000T and WB 3.1... or maybe it's in a file somewhere in the OS, haven't looked...

Still, the holy grail must be a screen that does the 320x256 PAL mode well for games, too. Those who don't mind the stretching of the BenQ should be sorted, the scaling seems to be okay then.

If there was a BenQ of the same series (down to 15KHz 50 Hz) but 5:4, that would be mucho interesting!

But it's looking more and more like an LCD TV for me, of only one could know which ones are good. The Joytech 8" is a truly wonderful screen, it's awesome with whatever I throw at it, wish they made bigger ones that had the same fine qualities
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Old 03 November 2009, 21:31   #39
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Why 5:4? The Amiga was designed to be viewed with a 4:3 monitor, so you'll only get oval circles if you use a 5:4 panel..

This one might be as good as it gets, and I have to say I am tempted. My current LG is 5:4 and I don't like that.

http://www.converters.tv/products/vga_to_vga/650.html

Of course the ultimate "goodness" of that depends on how well the adjustments work.. Some LCD monitors have a hard time getting all of the Amiga signal.
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Old 03 November 2009, 22:26   #40
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I know. "Dpaint circles are ovals, and that's how it should be on PAL". Sort of

But 1081 and 1084 are American-made monitors and so have a 4:3 tube (270x203mm), since 320x240 was kind of a standard for home computers like C64, and also for VGA later. (Ie. not really made for NTSC-Amigas' 320x200...)

HOWEVER, LCD pixels are always square, and if you leave this square pixels standard, scaling chips will (I almost wrote 'might' but that would be tainting the truth) muck things up. Most modern screens are 1280x1024, and so 640x512 will give a 2:1 resize on them. Now, if you find a 1024x768 or 800x600 LCD with a GOOD scaling chip I might be enticed to "see how it looks".

But I'm afraid I'm in the square pixels camp, even if I don't mind pillow-shaped pixels (320x256 on 4:3) on TVs at all. So my preferred setting on my 1081 is square pixels; PAL games look all right and NTSC "320x200-adjusted" games like Zany Golf don't look too squeezed. 8x8 hires fonts have the correct proportions, the full horizontal overscan isn't hidden behind the plastic frame, etc. Etc.


Thanks for the link, I must say it looks like a candidate for an A1200 Portable About the same heavy weight as an LCD TV (3.7kg) but 25mm thinner. What inside those so called flat screens is "sticking out", anyway!??!

And you're right about "not knowing how it will look", although I'm not sure what you mean by "all of the Amiga signal". A little border left and right, and a few pixels shaved off at the bottom is okay by me, IF what you DO see looks good.

If there are some LCD TVs dealers near me, I'll bring my MiniMig there and see how they work. It's too bad that so few (zero?) VGA LCDs cope with 320x256 in a decent manner, but at least for LCD TVs there's a flicker of a chance that it will display RGB PAL with acceptable artifacts.
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