New monitor that works with PAL resolutions

[fryguy]

Thought i should mention this, i'm not sure if this works for everyone but according to Laz on Safir his BenQ G2420 works fine on 15khz resolutions with his A1200.

to the thread in Swedish

According to the specs it seems like it should not work though?

[Leffmann]

Was thinking of buying an RGB to VGA connector so I could get a true 640x480 60Hz Workbench on my VGA screen, but of course the 15kHz modes wouldn't work then. This flat screen might be the solution!

I was told that Benq have listed this screen as not being able to go lower than 20kHz or something. If this is the case then could it be that other production runs of this screen might not accept the 15kHz signals?

[gulliver]

The Sampo LME-17S3 handles Amiga 15khz as standart, but it does not come cheap!
Also does the Sony PVM-20M2MDU. As a rule of thumb, if a Sony PVM monitor has an analog RGB input, it will be a suitable monitor for old-school RGB gaming (ie. 15.75kHz).
Spanish industrial monitors suchs as Lazkun LZKPE19OF00.
Mitsubishi Diamond Scan 20M (model HC3925KTK), is a CRT max resolution 800x600
Sceptre C-NagaV 19" works in 15 khz
The one at this link http://www.converters.tv/products/vga_to_vga/474.html

[fryguy]

@Leffman: according to the specs of the Benq it only goes down to 24Khz..

[gulliver]

Hantarex

mtc900 15khz
mtc9000 15khz
mtc 9110 15khz
Polo?1 15khz
polo1 dual frequency 15/24khz
polo 2 15/24khz
PoloStar?15/24/31 khz

Nanao

MS8-25F?
MS8-26?
MS8-29?
MS9-29A?
MS9-29SU?
MS9-29T?
MS-2930? 15/24/31 manual resolution switch
MS-2931? 15/24/31 auto resolution switch
MS-2932? 31khz
MS-2934? 31khz

Pentranic

29" universal
29" pure flat universal

Sanwa

PM1745 15/24khz
PM1755 15/24/31khz
29E31S
29PF31
29PFX 15/24/31khz Pure Flat

Wei-Ya

M31 Series?

Wells-Gardner

K7000 series 15khz
K7600 24khz
U5000 15/24khz
U3000 31khz
D9200
D9400 15/24/31khz digital
D9800 15/24/31khz digital


RODOTRON

666A-29?
666B-29?

ACER

1455

[StarEye]

Doing a little basic research, the official BenQ website tells us that the G2420HD only supports 20khz. If the information in the original post is true, then it's some kind of a "hidden" feature only few people would discover. Could doing this harm the monitor?

I have a BenQ G2220HDA, which I recently aquired. I will try tomorrow, maybe...

[RedskullDC]

Hi FryGuy,

Originally Posted by fryguy

Thought i should mention this, i'm not sure if this works for everyone but according to Laz on Safir his BenQ G2420 works fine on 15khz resolutions with his A1200.

to the thread in Swedish

According to the specs it seems like it should not work though?

Quite correct, should only scan down to 20kHz.

I have one of the G2420HD's, but never thought of trying it with the Amiga.
The BenQ monitors are cheap as chips here in Oz:
http://ijk.com.au/branch/ijk/product...ucts_id=122408

Will plug it in tomorrow and give it a go!

Cheers,
Red

[DDNI]

It looks like the VGA cable is directly connected to the Amiga. What type of 23pin to 15pin adapter are you using? Is it the silver supplied with A4000 jobby?

[fryguy]

@DDNI: it's not my pictures, but the person who tried it used a standard C= VGA adapter AFAIK.

[RedskullDC]

Hi All,

Plugged my A500 into the BenQ G2420HD this afternoon.

It does indeed scan down to 15Khz!!

Just used a quick 23pin->15pin VGA adapter hack as shown.

Will plug the 1200 in later on to try some of the other screen modes, PAL/NTSC etc.
Will report back here.

Cheers,
Red

[fryguy]

Yep another swedish Amiga user also bought a 2420HD and confirmed that it works for him too.

I tried looking for my VGA-adaptor yesterday to try with my G2400W but i suppose it won't work as the specs says it only syncs down to 31KHz. Couldn't find my VGAadapter though :/

[Photon]

A quick translation of the Swedish thread: (the Benq LCD)

+ scrolls smoothly in Pinball Dreams smoothly (no 50-to-60Hz resampling)
+ overall, a good screen for gaming
- interlaced modes aren't deinterlaced (Not surprising. I wonder if it's perfect (as perfect as on A3000) with a Flickerfixer without Scandoubler? Should be.)
- hires modes result in filtered fonts, no way to select a "good" resolution

They mention 1280x1024 to get crisp fonts in 640x512, but it's a 1920x1080 screen, so I'm confused.

And Gulliver that's some ACE lists you have there - a bigger problem is finding sellers in Europe. Do you have some voodoo magic lists of them, too?

I'm looking for a NEW 19-20" 15KHz, 50Hz RGB-CRT. Arcade monitors like Hantarex are perfect but they lack enclosures.

[Photon]

Looking at the screenshots, 4:3 is stretched to fit the monitor. Blech. Also, the o's in the font in the WB shot are not equal.

"They should be equal." (c) The Office

[RedskullDC]

Hi All,

Tested all the screenmodes.

Seems OK with everything except DBLPal and DBLNtsc modes (~29kHz)
Oddly enough, it complains about them being out of range.

50HzPAL/ 60HzNTSC both worked fine in lores/hires.
Text is certainly clear enough to play games.

EURO72 modes appear the clearest when upscaled to fit the screen size.
Certainly clear enough to do word processing or coding.

Cheers,
Red

[amigafan1200]

Just ordered one of the BenQ G2420HD.
Let you know when it arrives if the newer ones still support 15 khz.

[alexh]

What are interlaced screen modes like? How bad is the flickering?

What is the monitor like as a PC monitor? These monitors are very very cheap in the UK for a 24" monitor. Under £150!

[Photon]

How to adjust the picture to get square pixels, tho? Any controls to go 5:4?

Or do they (or others) do 5:4 monitors with the same scan support?

Edit: The Swedish thread had some more replies - the HD one does support 4:3 (but presumably not 5:4, or the author would have mentioned it).

Here's the HD one he bought: http://www.webhallen.com/prod.php?id...0&ref=Prisjakt

[RedskullDC]

Hi AlexH, Photon, et al.

Originally Posted by alexh

What are interlaced screen modes like? How bad is the flickering?

What is the monitor like as a PC monitor? These monitors are very very cheap in the UK for a 24" monitor. Under £150!

Interlaced is not very good, just as bad as on my 1084S

Did a bit more playing around with it this evening.
If I run the VGAOnly driver first, then DBLPAL and DBLNTSC now work.
Multiscan productivity is also pretty good.

When operating in 640x480 or 640x400 modes, it is possible to change the screen to 4:3 aspect ratio. Check the attached pic.

Screen won't allow anything but 16:9 ratio's in any of the 15kHz modes, not that I am complaining!

----

As a PC monitor it's great. Normally I use this monitor as a second screen for my Macbook pro when doing coding/gfx stuff for the Mac. 1920x1000 crystal clear.
My employer bought a load of them since they were so cheap!

Cheers,
Red

[alexh]

Bummer, I dunno if I could live with a stretched screen when playing games.

What is the vertical height of the viewing area in mm?

With it being a 24" widescreen monitor I want to compare size with my 20" CRT.

[haynor]

LCD for amiga? Is it really good idea

[Photon]

Not really. Perhaps with scandoubler for someone using it for serious work.

My interest in it is finding a flat screen about the size of an A1200

But that screenshot with the fonts in a 4:3 mode... extremely bad filtering. Usually the trademark of Chinese lo-res screens. Redskull, this is on a G2420? A 1920x1080 panel? Can't believe it.

In the Swedish thread they made it seem like every single Amiga-resolution worked in 4:3, btw?

I'm looking at a G2220, which goes down to 24KHz. Any hope?

[haynor]

Image probably will be very blurry (320x256 upscanned to 1280x1024 :/ )

[Photon]

Upscaled. But I know what you mean. One should be able to disable scaling filter. It's possible on some monitors, via the menu.

But really, even if 640x512 *WASN'T* the perfect resolution for 1280x1024, the result should be better. On G2420, it's probably "filling the screen vertically" (something x 1080, not 1024?) causing it. Possibly, in 640x540 overscan, if you can test. Probably not.

But for a 1920 rez screen, this really looks like they downscale it to a random resolution below 500x500, scale "whatever" resolution to that, put a blur over it to cover up their mistake, and stretch the blurred low-res pixels to "whatever".

Tell me how it is possible in 2009.

I need huge blurred screenfuls of artifacts zoomed up in my face like I need an injection of battery acid.

[haynor]

Heh, it won't look any good anyway. Most monitors correctly upscaled only typical resolutions like 640x480 800x600 etc. I have Benq 19'' at work and I did some testing using custom resolutions. Results were bizarre.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Photon

But that screenshot with the fonts in a 4:3 mode... extremely bad filtering. This is on a G2420? A 1920x1080 panel? Can't believe it.

That picture looks like it is taken with a mobile phone, it is dark, blurry. How can you tell if any distortion is the monitor or the camera on the phone or even the JPEG compression etc?

Originally Posted by Photon

In the Swedish thread they made it seem like every single Amiga-resolution worked in 4:3, btw?

You sure? I am inclined to believe RedSkullDC. Ask them on the forum if it is true and how they switched to 4:3 mode. Ask them which revision monitor they have. Perhaps it was an added feature?

[Photon]

You can ask them all these questions, they speak English there.

Are you being silly or just trying to piss me off? That's typical crappy scaling chip artifacts you see there. You haven't seen that before?

JPEG compression moves pixels around?? Are you kidding me? Look at the logo and icons on the screen case.

You need to stop this.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Photon

Are you being silly or just trying to piss me off? You need to stop this.

I was just thinking the same of your last few posts in various threads. Lets assume we're both having miscommunication problems eh?

Originally Posted by Photon

That's typical crappy scaling chip artifacts you see there.

For me it is too dark really to see anything clearly. Plus the photo was taken at an oblique angle, never a good thing with LCD?

Originally Posted by Photon

You haven't seen that before?

I've never had an LCD before, and the ones I've used have always been at native resolution.

Originally Posted by Photon

JPEG compression moves pixels around?? Are you kidding me? Look at the logo and icons on the screen case.

Logo?? "Screen case"?? Are we looking at the same image?

[a4k-oerx]

Maybe this helps, added a little brightness, so screencase and logos are visible...

[Photon]

Yeah, check f.ex. the 'i' vs the 'W' in AmigaWorld.

alexh, I am negative about crappy things, but prefer to attack them with information when I get the urge. You make shit up just to have something to argue about, such as in this example. I don't care about that, but lately it's me you have targeted, which pisses me off.

You admit you've never owned an LCD before, yet something is wrong with my arguments. 'It could be camera/JPEG'. Yes, in fantasy-land, and if you've never tried to display Amiga on an LCD before.

I question a perhaps-perhaps-not promising product, you question ME. Please feel free to do so, but with arguments.

I've asked on Safir about the scaling, but any LCD I get for my lovely Amigas will have to have zero artifacts - it's bad enough with picture update problems on LCDs already.

[alexh]

Originally Posted by Photon

Yeah, check the 'i' vs the 'W' in AmigaWorld.

Yeah, I can see it now.

Originally Posted by Photon

You make shit up just to have something to argue about, such as in this example.

I didn't make anything up I asked a question. Which was "How can you tell if any distortion is the monitor?" All you had to do was say something like "If you look at position X,Y you can see effect Z which I am certain is a scaling artifact" and I would have understood. You tried to do it and I did not understand where you were asking me to look. And you seemed to see this miscommunication as some sort of attack. I thought I had a bad inferiority complex

Originally Posted by Photon

it's bad enough with picture update problems on LCDs already.

The scan rate conversion? 50Hz->60Hz? Never seen it on an LCD. Jens said something about Indivision AGA supporting intermediate frequencies which limited the effect but I think I'd have to see it to understand how bad it was.

[Photon]

Picture update speed.

I just told you how someone who doesn't make stuff up, but knows stuff, about cameras, jpeg, and LCD monitors, can see that it's typical cheap scaling chip artifacts, and can also see that it is _not_ a camera or jpeg artifact, even if that wasn't the case.

[Photon]

Needs more commas.



,

[RedskullDC]

Hi Photon, et al.

[quote=Photon;611279
But that screenshot with the fonts in a 4:3 mode... extremely bad filtering. Usually the trademark of Chinese lo-res screens. Redskull, this is on a G2420? A 1920x1080 panel? Can't believe it.

In the Swedish thread they made it seem like every single Amiga-resolution worked in 4:3, btw?

I'm looking at a G2220, which goes down to 24KHz. Any hope?[/quote]

I have a pretty shitty camera, time I upgraded...

Details from the box:
Name: G2420HD
Model: ET-0027-B
Mfr Date: July2009
s/n: ETM7915155SL0
rev:00-130-BA

I have checked and double checked:
15kHz screens will only display in 16:9
On screen menu option for "FULL"/"ASPECT" is stuck on "FULL" when in 15kHz modes.

31kHz modes allow "ASPECT" mode to be selected.

--------

Pics should speak for themselves, unless I have gone to a great deal of trouble to create fakes

Cheers,
Red

[Photon]

Useful info, someone asked for exact model number in the other thread, I will forward to the Swe thread also.

Well, I'm out then. Or to be specific - I couldn't live with the stretching+scaling, and if I have to get a scandoubler anyway, there might be some 1280x1024 panel or smaller that does 31KHz 50 Hz, possibly but unlikely with lesser scaling artifacts.

[rkauer]

Those upscaling artifacts are pretty common on wide screen LCD units, I'm afraid.

The very same with my China-made "Fujilink A1901W" (it's a 19" Wide Screen). It does PAL & NTSC low & high res. Just don't like DBL modes of any kind (using an A600 you don't have VGAonly, sigh).

Need pictures?

[haynor]

I'll bet screen will be ugly just like other LCDs

[alexh]

Originally Posted by rkauer

Just don't like DBL modes of any kind (using an A600 you don't have VGAonly, sigh).

I didn't know they had DBL modes even.

[Jope]

Super Denise has DBL modes.. So A500+, A600, A3000..

They are terribly slow on ECS machines though.

[Photon]

Idea: "Complete List of Commodore Amiga Screen Modes". Unless it's already been done? I guess it shouldn't take that long with an A4000T and WB 3.1... or maybe it's in a file somewhere in the OS, haven't looked...

Still, the holy grail must be a screen that does the 320x256 PAL mode well for games, too. Those who don't mind the stretching of the BenQ should be sorted, the scaling seems to be okay then.

If there was a BenQ of the same series (down to 15KHz 50 Hz) but 5:4, that would be mucho interesting!

But it's looking more and more like an LCD TV for me, of only one could know which ones are good. The Joytech 8" is a truly wonderful screen, it's awesome with whatever I throw at it, wish they made bigger ones that had the same fine qualities

[Jope]

Why 5:4? The Amiga was designed to be viewed with a 4:3 monitor, so you'll only get oval circles if you use a 5:4 panel..

This one might be as good as it gets, and I have to say I am tempted. My current LG is 5:4 and I don't like that.

http://www.converters.tv/products/vga_to_vga/650.html

Of course the ultimate "goodness" of that depends on how well the adjustments work.. Some LCD monitors have a hard time getting all of the Amiga signal.