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Old 06 November 2009, 22:43   #141
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Like Dastardly said that's probably the main point about Sonic. The MD can scroll faster than the SNES and that's what Sonic shows off (bearing in mind that I'm not a MD or SNES fanboi either ).
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Old 06 November 2009, 22:49   #142
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It's no secret Sonic is built around speed but which sonic are we talking about now? I went through it chronologically from Master System sonic to Genesis ones and it was a big deal before there was Mega Drive with its scrolling advantage to snes (which may not even exist in the first place given that snes is better hardware)
I have played Sonic 1 and 2 on MD and completed Sonic on the Game Gear, so those are the ones I am basing my opinions on.

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I know you're a Bitmap fan like myself. I played the demo of CE1 yesterday. Enemies are significantly faster than the retail version and I happened to run it in NTSC. It's safe to say that it was a rubbish experience compared to retail version because that kind of speed wasn't knowingly designed, it wasn't intentional and it did show. When done properly, it's no crime to base a title's gameplay on speed for the opposite result, like sega did with sonic.
I didn't say it was a crime to base a game on speed, but I do think that it's a bit gimmicky and doesn't deserve to be counted along with (what I consider to be) the pinnacle of the genre.

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It's ok to dislike sonic but it's not a piece of shit like you claim.
Firstly, I don't even dislike Sonic (I certainly didn't claim it to be shit). My point was, as I say above, I think it's a bit generous to compare it to the Mario games. Take away Sonic's speed and you're left with a pretty mediocre game, although quite pretty. In fact, unless you are bollocking it through a level, it's controls are pretty sluggish.
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Old 06 November 2009, 22:53   #143
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Are we discussing about platforms or developers now? That's a honest question, no irony. IMO the real point is whether or not Amiga had games of that caliber. Sega or no, I'd love to have something that compared to the dragon's trap on Amiga but it couldn't happen because Amiga games were made by europeans and console games, by the japanese. Apples and oranges.
No really, the Wonder Boy series is a platformer (except part 1) with adventure/RPG elements. There are Amiga clones like Prophecy: The Viking Child but they are not as good as the original. Sadly.

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Also more info on wonderboy here. I love that site.
I know and we have a thread about it. Don't take it too seriously what i or others posted there.

LINK
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Old 06 November 2009, 22:55   #144
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Don't take it too seriously what i or others posted there.
So true, so true
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Old 06 November 2009, 23:07   #145
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One thing I always like on amiga - music. Amiga versions of music are almost always better than any console from that time.
Except for the SNES.

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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Developing for Genesis and SNES was infinetly more expensive than developing for Amiga. For a start, publishers had to pay Sega and Nintendo in advance for cartridges to be made, so they had significantly bigger investments right from the off.
If it improved the games' quality, I'm all for it.

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Had the Americans embraced their own machine, I think things would have been a lot different. For a patriotic lot, they sure loved the Japanese stuff!
Blame it on Commodore's horrible marketing against Sega's and Nintendo's excellent marketing. The fact that the Amiga didn't even have the graphical power of the Genesis might also have been a factor (though the Ranger chipset would have handily reversed that situation, were it not for the despicable duo of Gould and Ali).

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It wasn't just because a game only sold 100,000 copies either, game development on Amiga was quicker, therefore the shelflife of a game was kinda determined on what was next around the corner to be released.
Consoles also had frequent releases, so I don't see your point there.

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Clearly if you think Bubsy is better than most Amiga platformers, you really haven't seen most Amiga platformers.
Actually, I have. As a fan of both platformers and the Amiga, I've scoured LemonAmiga and Hall of Light for good ones on my favorite computer. Of the 200-odd Amiga plaformers that I searched through, I found maybe 40 decent ones, hardly any of which can really match the Genesis and SNES games for polish and playability.

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Yes the Amiga had bad developers, but the SNES and Genesis were not exactly brimming with greatness at times, but agreed, Tiertex on the Amiga would never have been allowed to get away with the same shit on Genesis or SNES.
So you're conceding my point.

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Generally the specific Amiga titles are incredibly strong, and I think you need to broaden your Amiga games horizons.
I have. You assume too much.

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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Try looking through HOL and selecting the option of Amiga Original, theres a world out there buddy
I have.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
And how many platform games outside of Sonic and Mario series are so much better than the Amiga platformers? I keep hearing this, but I can't remember any really great platformers outside of these. And if anyone says Donkey Kong Country - that's one game that's really close to a typical Amiga platformer game.
That last bit about Donkey Kong Country really didn't make much sense, but whatever. Console platformers that beat Amiga platformers:

Aladdin

Alisia Dragoon

B.O.B.

Batman: The Video Game

Batman Returns

Castle of Illusion

Contra: Hard Corps

Doom Troopers: The Mutant Chronicles

Dynamite Headdy

Earthworm Jim

Earthworm Jim 2

Gargoyles

Global Gladiators

The Lion King

Mega Man: The Wily Wars

Mickey Mania

The Misadventures of Flink

Phantom 2040

Pocahontas

Puggsy

Pulseman

Ristar

Rocket Knight Adventures

Sparkster

Tinhead

Vecorman

Vectorman 2

Wiz 'n' Liz

And that's just on the Genesis. If I included SNES games like Super Metroid and Cybernator, that list would be even more massive.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Seriously, the Amiga platformers are more typical western or european type games. It really depends on what you like. I loved games like Chuck Rock 2 (gameplay was better than the first game), Super Frog, Giana Sisters, Parasol Stars (not a scrolling platformer, but still), Rainbow Islands, Soccer Kid, Yo! Joe!. These are all brilliant.
Great Giana Sisters is "brilliant"? You're using an Amiga port of a C64 rip-off of a console game to prove that Amiga games are better than console games? And arcade conversions don't count.

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And to those who say Super Frog is a bad game - have you ever played past the initial forest world? It's when you enter the castle and the indoor locations it's really picking up.
Had quite the opposite effect on me - that's when the controls really start getting on your nerves and the cheap deaths increase.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
No, but they're on the Amiga, and they're good, thus good amiga platformers.
Why? You're just using an Amiga as a substitute for an arcade machine; there's nothing "Amiga" about them. I wouldn't use the Amiga port of Puggsy to justify the Amiga's superiority to the consoles any more than I'd use the Genesis port of Flashback to justify the consoles' superiority to the Amiga.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
If we're going to only bring up Amiga originals in everything, then we might not have very many games left to brag about on the Amiga.
Whereas the consoles have loads and loads of great, native games to brag about.

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Originally Posted by StarEye View Post
Secret of Monkey Island and Leisure Suit Larry weren't Amiga originals either, but I still consider them Amiga games.
Not PC games? If I coded an Amiga port of Earthworm Jim, would that suddenly make Earthworm Jim an Amiga game?

Last edited by Dan Locke; 06 November 2009 at 23:25.
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Old 06 November 2009, 23:17   #146
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Quote:
Aladdin

Alisia Dragoon

B.O.B.

Batman: The Video Game

Batman Returns

Castle of Illusion

Contra: Hard Corps

Doom Troopers: The Mutant Chronicles

Dynamite Headdy

Earthworm Jim

Earthworm Jim 2

Gargoyles

Global Gladiators

The Lion King

Mega Man: The Wily Wars

Mickey Mania

The Misadventures of Flink

Phantom 2040

Pocahontas

Puggsy

Pulseman

Ristar

Rocket Knight Adventures

Sparkster

Tinhead

Vecorman

Vectorman 2

Wiz 'n' Liz (better on the Amiga)
Sorry, you listed too many mediocre MD titles.
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Old 06 November 2009, 23:21   #147
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Originally Posted by Dan Locke View Post
The fact that the Amiga didn't even have the graphical power of the Genesis might also have been a factor (though the Ranger chipset would have handily reversed that situation, were it not for the despicable duo of Gould and Ali).
Surely the palette of 4096 vs 512 colours gave a kind of advantage. Quite a lengthy post to prove the superiority of the MD and SNES to the Amiga. Still I think you totally miss the point
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Old 06 November 2009, 23:46   #148
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gimmie 2000 decent titles for the consoles and jp2 pwns em all
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Old 07 November 2009, 00:21   #149
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Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Sorry, you listed too many mediocre MD titles.
Five out of 28 is too many?

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Surely the palette of 4096 vs 512 colours gave a kind of advantage.
Not really, if you're talking about games, which tend to have moving graphics (the Amiga only displays all 4096 colors in still images). With only 64 colors onscreen, there's almost no difference between a 512-color palette and a 4096-color palette. However, the Genesis has three 16-color background layers and a 16-color sprite layer, while the Amiga must split its 5 (or 6, depending on the graphics mode) bitplanes between all of them, reducing its total palette with each layer (which is why each layer in Soccer Kid has only 8 colors). This can be circumvented through copper effects, but all that you get out of that is a horizontal gradient. The Genesis also has 80 hardware sprites, compared to the Amiga's 8.

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Quite a lengthy post to prove the superiority of the MD and SNES to the Amiga. Still I think you totally miss the point
Which is?
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Old 07 November 2009, 00:22   #150
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Many platform games on Amiga were great! Arabian nights comes to mind.
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Old 07 November 2009, 00:24   #151
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I've counted 9 and could have marked more. Anyway this kind of discussion is pointless.

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Which is?
Gameplay! Gameplay! Gameplay! Not better graphics/sound.
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Old 07 November 2009, 00:24   #152
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Dan Locke -

SNES sound was inferior by quite a large margin in comparison to the Amiga.

Sure the SNES had some good music, but time and time again the Amiga beat most stuff on any of the consoles of the day, having more sound channels but with a paltry amount of ram to play the music in? No thanks!

Its got nothing to do with Commodores marketing either, why is it the Amiga was embraced across the whole of Europe but not America? The Amiga was superior to most machines until the arrival of Saturn/PS1 etc.


Consoles had frequent releases, the Amiga games turnaround was a lot quicker. Take it from someone that worked in the games industry. Thats the point i'm making, I trust ive made it clear enough for you now?

Personally speaking, 40 platformers is decent enough. Just how many platformers does a machine need? Just how much variation is there between each different platformer? Not much, in fact quite a lot of Platformers on Genesis, SNES and Amiga were the same code as other platformers with simply changed graphics etc, the basic game remained the same. I'm afraid i'm really not that fussed if the Amiga doesn't have another 80+ games that play the same!

I conceeded the point only to say that there were some shit Amiga developers. I can provide you with a lengthy list of shit Genesis / SNES developers if you want your point to be nulled?

I assume nothing, I can only go on the scant information you provide
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Old 07 November 2009, 00:49   #153
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Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Gameplay! Gameplay! Gameplay! Not better graphics/sound.
Oh, gameplay. Fanboys whose systems have inferior graphics always fall back on "gameplay". Apparently, "gameplay" is the absence of good graphics, because console titles tend to have better controls, larger level designs, fairer difficulty, and greater variety.

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SNES sound was inferior by quite a large margin in comparison to the Amiga.
8 16-bit sound channels is inferior to 4 8-bit sound channels?! What are you smoking?!

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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Sure the SNES had some good music, but time and time again the Amiga beat most stuff on any of the consoles of the day, having more sound channels but with a paltry amount of ram to play the music in? No thanks!
Guess why consoles had "paltry" RAM? THE GAMES WERE ALL IN ROM ON A CARTRIDGE. RAM is only useful if you have to keep stuff in memory after you've waited ages for it to load from a disk. The only ROM on an Amiga is the Kickstart, which is built-in. You could completely fill a cartridge with music and the SNES would play it all, because it's in the 4 MB cartridge ROM rather than the 128 KB onboard RAM (incidentally, this means that the SNES has 4 times as much usable memory as the average Amiga).

And more sound channels ALWAYS sounds better. You can do real chords and have more than four instruments playing at once on the SNES, but you have to fake chords by pre-sampling them and shuffle instruments around with the Amiga's 4 channels - and it still sounds sparse compared to the SNES.

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Its got nothing to do with Commodores marketing either
Funny, the thing that Jay Miner hated the most about Commodore was that they did a horrible job marketing the Amiga.

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why is it the Amiga was embraced across the whole of Europe but not America?
Because the European market was already more computer-focused? It's not rocket science. And the ST outsold the Amiga in Europe, so it obviously wasn't all about technical superiority.

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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
The Amiga was superior to most 8-bit machines and the ST until the arrival of Saturn/PS1 etc.
Fixed.

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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Consoles had frequent releases, the Amiga games turnaround was a lot quicker. Take it from someone that worked in the games industry. Thats the point i'm making, I trust ive made it clear enough for you now?
Unless you "worked in the games industry" from 1989 to 1994, I really couldn't care less. Besides, the point that you seem to be making is that increasing the quantity of games on a machine decreases the quantity of good ones, which the PS2 disproves.

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Personally speaking, 40 platformers is decent enough.
On its own, yes, but not enough to substantiate a claim that the machine with 40 good platformers has a better platformer library than the machines with far more than that.

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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Just how many platformers does a machine need? Just how much variation is there between each different platformer? Not much, in fact quite a lot of Platformers on Genesis, SNES and Amiga were the same code as other platformers with simply changed graphics etc, the basic game remained the same.
Unless the game developers were all passing around their game code to share with each other, that's far from the truth.

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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
I'm afraid i'm really not that fussed if the Amiga doesn't have another 80+ games that play the same!
So console games are all identical?

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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
I conceeded the point only to say that there were some shit Amiga developers. I can provide you with a lengthy list of shit Genesis / SNES developers if you want your point to be nulled?
To quote you, "Tiertex on the Amiga would never have been allowed to get away with the same shit on Genesis or SNES." So you're basically saying that the Amiga had lower quality standards than the consoles did.

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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
I assume nothing, I can only go on the scant information you provide
?

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Old 07 November 2009, 01:08   #154
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btw: Hülsbeck's/Thierolf's TFMX 8-track system with Hippels 7 voice replayer sounds much better than anything i've heard in SNES games, 8 16-bit sound channels or not.
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Old 07 November 2009, 01:09   #155
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btw: Hülsbeck's/Thierolf's TFMX 8-track system with Hippels 7 voice replayer sounds much better than anything i've heard in SNES games, 8 16-bit sound channels or not.
I would absolutely love a link to that. This is almost as exciting as the time that I found out about 14-bit Paula sound. There's no way that it sounds better, though - it's just that the music was by Hülsbeck, who's really one of the greatest chip musicians of all time.

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Why most? Do you mean there was at least one 8-bit machine that the Amiga was not superior to?
The C65 comes readily to mind, although it was unreleased. The 8-bit TurboGrafx also compares favorably to the Amiga, and is much better-suited for games.
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Old 07 November 2009, 01:11   #156
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8 16-bit sound channels is inferior to 4 8-bit sound channels?! What are you smoking?!

Amiga can play 8 channels through software, and whilst you CLEARLY have no clue about hardware, its lovely the SNES had 4 extra channels and 16bit, but had to rely on its sound processor because memory was so tight. Nice! Thats like having a Cadillac with a V8 engine and a 1 litre petrol tank!!!

Guess why consoles had "paltry" RAM? THEY WERE CARTRIDGE-BASED. RAM is only useful if you have to keep stuff in memory after you've waited for it to load. You could completely fill a cartridge with music and the SNES would play it all.

Really? So why didn't they do that then? Was it because cartridges were horrendously expensive to produce and publishers didn't want the extra cost of having more ROM space on the cart? The fact it 'could' is irrelevant when they 'didnt'. And the SNES did have a paltry amount of ram, why would you even contest this?

And more sound channels ALWAYS sounds better. You can do real chords and have more than four instruments playing at once.

Really? What a load of ill informed bollocks frankly! I can pick out many, many, many 4 channel modules on Amiga that are STILL highly regarded today, because whilst you think its all about sound channels, sometimes the skills of the musician come into play... feel free to think that over sometime.

Funny, the thing that Jay Miner hated the most about Commodore was that it did a horrible job marketing the Amiga.


Because the European market was already more computer-focused? It's not rocket science. And the ST outsold the Amiga in Europe, so it obviously wasn't all about technical superiority.

Haha, no it didn't, you'll need to provide links for that, and i'm afraid anything from Wikipedia isn't taken seriously.


Fixed.



Unless you "worked in the games industry" from 1989 to 1994, I really couldn't care less. Besides, the point that you seem to be making is that increasing the quantity of games on a machine decreases the quantity of good ones, which the PS2 disproves.

I did work for the games industry during that time. I didn't say anything of the sort that more games equals less quality, what I did say was that the turnaround for an Amiga title was quicker, so clearly a developer doing an An Amiga game would then be able to start the next one quicker. Quite simple really!


On its own, yes, but not enough to substantiate a claim that the machine with 40 good platformers has a better platformer library than the machines with far more than that.

No one made that claim, the point I made was I couldn't give a toss if the Amiga had 80 or 1000 great platformers..... theres not enough derivation to get anything meaningful out of yet more platform games. It was a cluttered market that showed a wilful lack of innovation, the same games re-released with different graphics.... big yay!


Unless the game developers were all passing around their game code to share with each other, that's far from the truth.

Its not far from the truth at all, having worked in the industry, I think that qualifies me better than you to be confident i'm right. Many development teams on Amiga, SNES and Megadrive in Europe all were part of other development teams during their careers. David Perry of Shiny Entertainment fame, started out for Probe. Are you seriously suggesting that the likes of Ocean software that did a lot of games inhouse didn't code share? You're seriously deluded if you disagree with that.

So console games are all identical?


To quote you, "Tiertex on the Amiga would never have been allowed to get away with the same shit on Genesis or SNES." So you're basically saying that the Amiga had lower quality standards than the consoles did.

Did I say that? Or did I also offer to provide you with a list of shit Genesis / SNES developers? Next time you want to quote me, feel free to NOT be disingenous and have the decency to quote me in full or don't bother.


?
Yawn!
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Old 07 November 2009, 01:17   #157
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I'm a huge PC-Engine/TurboGrafx fan, but the 6 channel PSG sound can't compete with the Paula chip, though a lot of HuCard games sounds really nice. C65? As you said, not released/no games. So this is only speculation and probably wrong.

And once again it's a discussion about hardware details, and not about the gameplay quality of computer or console platformer.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 07 November 2009 at 01:27.
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Old 07 November 2009, 01:30   #158
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Christ, lets chuck in the Konix Multi-System shall we?
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Old 07 November 2009, 01:34   #159
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Amiga can play 8 channels through software, and whilst you CLEARLY have no clue about hardware
How do I "have no clue about hardware"?

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its lovely the SNES had 4 extra channels and 16bit, but had to rely on its sound processor because memory was so tight.
And the Amiga didn't "rely on its sound processor"? Wha..?

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Nice! Thats like having a Cadillac with a V8 engine and a 1 litre petrol tank!!!
More like a 4 MB petrol tank.

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Really? So why didn't they do that then?
Because they wanted to fill their 4 MB cartridges with stuff besides music?

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Was it because cartridges were horrendously expensive to produce and publishers didn't want the extra cost of having more ROM space on the cart? The fact it 'could' is irrelevant when they 'didnt'.
Didn't what? Use all of the ROM to hold music?

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And the SNES did have a paltry amount of ram, why would you even contest this?
I didn't; I said that RAM is irrelevant because it ran everything straight from the cartridge ROM. If the Amiga loaded its programs at the speed of light, it certainly wouldn't need 512k to play games with lots of loading time to sit through.

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Really? What a load of ill informed bollocks frankly!
How so?

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I can pick out many, many, many 4 channel modules on Amiga that are STILL highly regarded today, because whilst you think its all about sound channels, sometimes the skills of the musician come into play... feel free to think that over sometime.
I listen to Amiga modules quite frequently, so I know all about the "skills of the musician". What I was saying was that a musician needs a HECK of a lot more skill to make decent music on the Amiga than he does on the SNES, because the SNES's sound chip is MASSIVELY better.

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Haha, no it didn't, you'll need to provide links for that, and i'm afraid anything from Wikipedia isn't taken seriously.
Wikipedia? How about my hardcover copy of On the Edge?

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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
I did work for the games industry during that time. I didn't say anything of the sort that more games equals less quality, what I did say was that the turnaround for an Amiga title was quicker, so clearly a developer doing an An Amiga game would then be able to start the next one quicker. Quite simple really!
And what I said was that that's no excuse for lower game quality.

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No one made that claim
Except for the people who were all "AMIGA HAS BETTER PLATFORMERS CONSOLES SUCK THEY HAVE NO VARIETY GRAARGHH".

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the point I made was I couldn't give a toss if the Amiga had 80 or 1000 great platformers.....
Great. My point is that the Amiga's library can't give a toss what you think about it.

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Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
theres not enough derivation to get anything meaningful out of yet more platform games. It was a cluttered market that showed a wilful lack of innovation, the same games re-released with different graphics.... big yay!
And that's what Amiga Power said about Amiga platformers. What are you getting at?

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Are you seriously suggesting that the likes of Ocean software that did a lot of games inhouse didn't code share? You're seriously deluded if you disagree with that.
Yeah, I'd be pretty deluded to think that a game company wouldn't share code with...itself.

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Did I say that? Or did I also offer to provide you with a list of shit Genesis / SNES developers?
Considering that Tiertex would still be worse, I thought that it was irrelevant.

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Next time you want to quote me, feel free to NOT be disingenous and have the decency to quote me in full or don't bother.
Why quote you in full when I can save space and streamline my post by only quoting what I respond to?

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I'm a huge PC-Engine/TurboGrafx fan, but the 6 channel PSG sound can't compete with the Paula chip, though a lot of HuCard games sounds really nice.
What it lacks in sound it more than makes up for in graphics.

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Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
C65? As you said, not released/no games. So this is only speculation and probably wrong.
The C65 had 256 onscreen colors from a palette of 4096, compared to the Amiga's 32/64. I'm probably wrong when I say that, but then so is every mention of the C65's and Amiga's specs that I've ever seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
And once again it's a discussion about hardware details, and not about the gameplay quality of computer or console platformer.
I never said that it was. But when somebody says that the Amiga was superior to every platform from the NES to the PlayStation, it's hard to tell what the discussion is about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plankton View Post
TurboGrafx-16 just had a 8-Bit CPU. I'd not call it a 8-Bit machine. It didn't call itself a 8-Bit machine but if you call it a 8-Bit machine, I won't stop you.
What's so "16-bit" about it? The graphics chips? I assume that the T-99 was an 8-bit machine then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by plankton View Post
As for C65, if we're going to compare vaporware, there's going to be a long list of unreleased Amiga models with specs that actually looked good.
Believe me, you have no idea how much I wish that we were talking about the Ranger rather than the original Amiga. Were it not for Gould and Ali, the Amiga would have been more powerful than the X68000.

Last edited by Dan Locke; 07 November 2009 at 01:47.
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Old 07 November 2009, 02:03   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Locke View Post
How do I "have no clue about hardware"?

No you don't, you seem to have a hangup about more channels automatically means better sound, and you've deliberately misquoted me again, because I CLEARLY made the distinction that whilst the SNES had 16bit and 4 more channels, it was hampered by its lack of ram to do anything like the hardware was capable of.


And the Amiga didn't "rely on its sound processor"? Wha..?

Amiga music on the whole didn't rely on sound from the processor, PAULA was used to play samples, i.e. not limited to what the hardware could produce.

More like a 4-MB petrol tank.

Megabit or Megabyte? Console owners love to get that one confused!


Because they wanted to fill their 4-MB cartridges with stuff besides music?

You gave the example not me, I simply countered it, quite effectively it would seem!


Didn't [i]what[i]? Use all of the ROM to hold music?

Yawn, been over this!


I didn't; I said that RAM is irrelevant because it ran everything straight from the cartridge ROM. If the Amiga loaded its programs at the speed of light, it certainly wouldn't need 512k to play games with lots of loading time to sit through.

Did consoles REALLY run EVERYTHING from ROM on the cartridges? I politely suggest you get yourself informed, whats the point of VRAM if it'll just run it from ROM??

How so?


I listen to Amiga modules quite frequently, so I know all about the "skills of the musician". What I was saying was that a musician needs a HECK of a lot more skill to make decent music on the Amiga than he does on the SNES.

And yet the Amiga is blessed with thousands upon thousands of modules and TFMX tunes that precisely demonstrate just how much skill Amiga musicians had, because they sure as hell sound better than most of the stuff on the SNES.. You seem adroitly capable of forgetting that the Amiga was a machine ANYONE could get involved and create something, hence the plethora of BETTER sounding music on Amiga. Damn that machine and its lousy 8bit 4 channel sound!


Wikipedia? How about my hardcover copy of On the Edge?

You'll have to do better than that i'm afraid, that book is a little too generic in its figures. Fact is, the Amiga 500 outsold the Atari 520 STfm by quite a margin before the their time was up, not even bothering to lump in the A500+ and the A600. Your book (hardcover or otherwise!) puts in ST, STF, STFM, STE, 520, 1040, Mega, and i'm pretty sure it even lumps in TT sales as being 'ST' as well.


And what I said was that that's no excuse for lower game quality.

I didn't say it was, I was merely explaining that the turnaround on Amiga games was quicker, which goes back to the point you made a while ago about why Amiga games had such a short lifespan. Feel free to go re-read it, i'm of the mind I can't be arsed to repeat myself for your convenience.


Except for the people who were all "AMIGA HAS BETTER PLATFORMERS CONSOLES SUCK THEY HAVE NO VARIETY GRAARGHH".

I'm not interested in defending anyone else, i'm directly responding to you, no-one else. Do try and keep up now!


Great. My point is that the Amiga's library can't give a toss what you think about it.

Jesus wept, did you just goto pre-school to dig up that response?!?!?! What kind of childish bullshit was that?


And that's what Amiga Power said about Amiga platformers. What are you getting at?

Quite clearly, yet more platformers in a market oversaturated with platformers is not welcome, I would have thought that was abundantly obvious, but if your want is to subsist on a diet of only platformers and shoot-em-ups with the odd RPG, be my guest, thats my idea of a lack of originality, and an audience that is as banal as it is easily pleased.... or so they think!


Yeah, I'd be pretty deluded to think that a game company wouldn't share code with...itself.
But it wasn't just sofware companies, development teams disbanded, joined others, did they delete all their old code, or did they bring it along? What do you reckon to Aladdin, Lion King, Cool Spot, Global Gladiators? Its all the same bloody code, you think this was a rare occurence? Broaden your mind mate for gods sake!


Considering that Tiertex would still be worse, I thought that it was irrelevant.

Not really the point is it? That makes the suggestion that there were no bad developers on Genesis and SNES, and thats clearly not the case.


Why quote you in full when I can save space and streamline my post by only quoting what I respond to?

Because its deceitful. You selectively picking out sentences in a paragraph to question me on something that is only inferred by you snipping what I wrote. If you can't see a problem with that, I would suggest you read up on how to debate properly.
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