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Old 03 January 2015, 23:00   #521
Michael Sykes
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Truth hurts... Last car I owned was an Astra build in 93.^^
And it did not support anything but Audio CD's.
But to bring the thread back on topic, I was just digging in my games folder and my eyes fell on Ork.
Anoter platform game that was not bad for an unexpanded A500 at the time. But hard as hell.
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Old 03 January 2015, 23:08   #522
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Yes, you can stuck in flying levels.
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Old 03 January 2015, 23:21   #523
Mrs Beanbag
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that is the thing, i think. Amiga games, often very nicely programmed, but something lacking in the design department.
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Old 03 January 2015, 23:39   #524
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Originally Posted by john1979 View Post
Looking back on this thread I can see I got a bit too passionate about it all. Certainly makes for some cringeworthy reading a year later. Galahad was right to give me a hard time I think.
If I had a pound for every time I posted something that I read back and made me cringe, I'd be a millionaire by now I really think we could all use a little humility now and then.
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Old 05 January 2015, 12:38   #525
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I can't believe that this thread of mine is 5 years old....
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Old 13 January 2015, 21:06   #526
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It was a fun thread to revisit too So many strong opinions pressed as facts and people completely head-butting. I miss the old page-filling posts as a result of quoting the quotes of quotes of strong opinions that need to be ridiculed.

Musing: Gods especially is an odd duck. Its pretty much that hate it or love it game as many dubious threads have proven - my overwhelmingly positive opinion on it keeps morphing. If I look at the game today what strikes me the most is just how completely original its gameplay style was and by today's standards still is. The way the movement and especially jumping makes it feel like you're really lugging around a rather heavy muscular guy, the inventory management, the secrets hidden within puzzles, the way enemies can behave so unpredictable... The guys who programmed this really put some work into it to make it not like any other platform-puzzler.

With a vindictive copy protection system that people praise Croteam for today, the unoriginal bastards.


EDIT: @Switchblade: I must correct you by the way. It is not YOUR thread at all. The moment you hit the post button, it became OURS.

Last edited by gimbal; 13 January 2015 at 21:15.
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Old 13 January 2015, 23:26   #527
Mrs Beanbag
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as far as i'm concerned Gods is a case in point - perhaps the perfect example of how Amiga games differ from console and arcade games. It's got great graphics, amazing music (at least, title music, sadly no in-game music), but it's also very eccentric, and has some of the feel of the old back-bedroom programmed ZX Spectrum games: it's fiendishly difficult with frustrating controls and unforgiving collision detection. The designers of console games have instant gratification down to a fine art, but with most Amiga games you have to have a certain amount of patience to get anything out of them. You can't just pick them up and play them, you've got to invest. And they can take a couple of hours to complete, usually with no saving or continues or codes!

Some people like that, i suppose. Maybe it comes into the modern age with the division into serious and casual gaming, i don't know.
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Old 13 January 2015, 23:51   #528
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Console games were made by big teams and had a kind of director, check SNES Metroid for example how the music changes when you enter a dangerous area, colors changing to provoke feelings example green makes you calm instead of red tones that make you anxious and feel danger, things like that.
Pro stuff really.

Last edited by nobody; 14 January 2015 at 00:00.
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Old 14 January 2015, 00:08   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
as far as i'm concerned Gods is a case in point - perhaps the perfect example of how Amiga games differ from console and arcade games. It's got great graphics, amazing music (at least, title music, sadly no in-game music), but it's also very eccentric, and has some of the feel of the old back-bedroom programmed ZX Spectrum games: it's fiendishly difficult with frustrating controls and unforgiving collision detection. The designers of console games have instant gratification down to a fine art, but with most Amiga games you have to have a certain amount of patience to get anything out of them. You can't just pick them up and play them, you've got to invest. And they can take a couple of hours to complete, usually with no saving or continues or codes!

Some people like that, i suppose. Maybe it comes into the modern age with the division into serious and casual gaming, i don't know.
I know exactly what you mean. I never felt that games had to be forgiving and lead you by the hand back then, I thought it was the norm having frustrating controls and insane difficulty spikes, that was certainly my experience with lot's of c64/amiga games. As I got older I would just play those ones less.. The sheer effort in trying to finish some of these old titles was really quite something. Maybe it's a generational thing? Having started from the gaming school of hard knocks :-)

Quote:
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Console games were made by big teams and had a kind of director, check SNES Metroid for example how the music changes when you enter a dangerous area, colors changing to provoke feelings example green makes you calm instead of red tones that make you anxious and feel danger, things like that.
Pro stuff really.
There must be some good examples of Amiga developers using these techniques? Can't think of any off the top me head though. Ah, chaos engine had some pretty cool design, especially the music changing dynamically throughout the levels.

Last edited by lordofchaos; 14 January 2015 at 00:16.
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Old 14 January 2015, 00:22   #530
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There must be some good examples of Amiga developers using these techniques? Can't think of any off the top me head though. Ah, chaos engine had some pretty cool design, especially the music changing dynamically throughout the levels.
Only in good stuff like Turrican 2 or Chaos Engine maybe some others too but not having the class of Super Metroid or other consoles games like Final Fantasy, only music changing if you encounter a boss or things like that.

Listen to this stuff it really says "you are in danger", or be careful "something is coming"

Really spooky

[ Show youtube player ]

Instead of this which is more or less "relax now you are safe"
[ Show youtube player ]

Last edited by nobody; 14 January 2015 at 00:31.
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Old 14 January 2015, 01:07   #531
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The Super Metroid tunes are really well composed I must say, never played the games myself. I did have a brief stint on the SNES when I borrowed it from a friend, I played secret of mana quite a lot and the music was amazing.

There was definitely a more concerted effort with console games (in general) with design philosophy, not that the Amiga didn't have it's fair share.. But on the whole, computer game design was a different beast all together in the 80's/90's compared to console..By the early/mid 90's computer game developers seemed to be scrambling to play catch up with it's console competitors, hence all the console-esque platformers arriving on the 16bit computers, some with mascots.
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Old 14 January 2015, 15:38   #532
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but it's also very eccentric
Thank you, that captures what I try to say in one word.

PS: if Gods was difficult or not is also a thing often debated I think if you love it you don't try to fight with it and rather just play it as you are supposed to play it - possibly more carefully and way slower with more backtracking than the average platformer. The game becomes wickedly difficult if you make the wrong choices in the shop thought. My main strategy was to get to the spears and then make damned sure not to replace them with any other weapon.

Last edited by gimbal; 14 January 2015 at 15:45.
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Old 14 January 2015, 19:39   #533
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that is the thing, i think. Amiga games, often very nicely programmed, but something lacking in the design department.
This perfectly sums up Team 17 for me.
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Old 14 January 2015, 20:28   #534
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I bet fans of Dark Souls would get on well with Gods You have to enjoy a certain amount of pain and discomfort to clock these games.
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Old 14 January 2015, 21:00   #535
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I'm with those that don't think it's THAT difficult. Just average difficulty I think.
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Old 14 January 2015, 22:15   #536
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I hear some people saying Gods is very easy, and some other saying Gods is painfully hard.

I'd take a wild guess and say most people who complain the game is painfully hard were playing cracked versions of it, while people saying its easy had an original copy.

Just a wild guess.

It doesn't matter, it was a mediocre game at best.

But the Amiga has lots of top-quality platform games.
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Old 14 January 2015, 23:20   #537
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I agree that Gods was just an average game. It just had that "oh look it's the bitmap brothers, wow" hype and that's all. Mostly trying to impress with graphics rather than gameplay which was usual in the Amiga days.

"Look what they can do they can cheat my CRT with dithering that they use more colors, they re so cool, wow!"
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Old 14 January 2015, 23:54   #538
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If i may sum it up as an homage to the old Mac ads...


The thing about Gods is that it was one of those old-fashioned platform games where you had no control over jumping whatsoever... you either jumped, or you didn't. You couldn't control the height or the distance. The only way to jump onto a specific thing was to jump from exactly the right place, and once you jumped you were committed to it. The Dizzy games were even worse for this because even after you landed you'd keep rolling! You had to find exactly the right spot to jump from to get onto some of the smaller platforms.

This is the same behaviour we had in Manic Miner et al, where so much as touching a shrub would kill you instantly without warning. Another game dynamic that went out of fashion is dying if you fall down too far. Japanese designers learnt to dispense with these things because they don't add to anyone's enjoyment and only lead to rage quits - the feeling that your failing was the game's fault because the control system just wouldn't admit a perfectly reasonable request. In Amigaland we seemed quite slow to catch on.

Last edited by Mrs Beanbag; 15 January 2015 at 00:07.
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Old 15 January 2015, 00:57   #539
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Arabian Nights IMO is one of the most underrated games in the genre for the system. It's a loveable game with great level design, spot-on controls, great graphics, great music + sfx, nice "diversion" levels like the flying carpet ones or the minecart one, it even has a very nice intro...

That game was freaking awesome, and I think it never gets the love it deserves. And it was an amiga exclusive!
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Old 15 January 2015, 04:15   #540
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If you think your attempts at editing other peoples graphics or crappy backbone games are better than gods - youve lost your mind.

You would have thought that I wouldnt take the bait by now.

O and gods is easy except last world maybe some of you did have a bad crack like I did at first.

Last edited by Retro1234; 15 January 2015 at 04:32.
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