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Old 21 September 2013, 16:38   #381
Retro-Nerd
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Then check the SNES/MD library for licenced garbage. There are hundreds of lousy platformer games. Ports of comics, movies, tv show etc. Well, the NES had even more, but still.... I've tried a lot of them via Everdrive Flash cards.
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Old 21 September 2013, 17:06   #382
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I will always consider the Amiga a better games machine over the consoles of the time for the simple reason it was far more versatile and allowed for richer gameplay experiences. Sod Mario, it's all about Frontier!

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Then check the SNES/MD library for licenced garbage. There are hundreds of lousy platformer games. Ports of comics, movies, tv show etc. Well, the NES had even more, but still.... I've tried a lot of them via Everdrive Flash cards.
This has been my experience too, loads of great games but just as many bad ones.

Last edited by lordofchaos; 21 September 2013 at 17:19.
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Old 21 September 2013, 17:41   #383
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There's a lot of mediocre games on every platform. Crappy ones are more often found on home computers, because everybody could release a game on them. The really good games are very rare on every platform. I think there are some iconic platform(ish) games for home computers (most of them were released not only on Amiga), but of course most of them can't be compared to Mario or Sonic. For me it's more important that there are games that are different and that they do a great job at it (Turrican springs to mind and IMHO Turrican 2 beats the two SNES incarnations gameplay wise).
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Old 21 September 2013, 18:12   #384
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Why are simulation and strategy games mediocre on console?

Jokes
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Old 22 September 2013, 11:58   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post
There's a lot of mediocre games on every platform. Crappy ones are more often found on home computers, because everybody could release a game on them. The really good games are very rare on every platform. I think there are some iconic platform(ish) games for home computers (most of them were released not only on Amiga), but of course most of them can't be compared to Mario or Sonic. For me it's more important that there are games that are different and that they do a great job at it (Turrican springs to mind and IMHO Turrican 2 beats the two SNES incarnations gameplay wise).
Super Turrican was written only for money, probably by Nintendo request. This would explain why it is not so good as original 3 parts on amiga, megadrive. Graphics however was better due better hardware on SNES.
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Old 22 September 2013, 12:37   #386
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I heard Super Turrican was supposed to be longer, but it was cut short because Nintendo supplied them with a smaller sized cart than they had wanted?
Might not be true though, I don't know.
The game does seem to end very abruptly though, with that big Alien queen thing as the final boss.
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Old 22 September 2013, 12:55   #387
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Namely the level design of Super Turrican is quite 'cut down' compared to the other Turrican games. The graphics are indeed nice and even the soundtrack is very good, but it plays very different to the home computer Turricans (or Mega Turrican for that matter).
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Old 22 September 2013, 13:10   #388
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Yeah. Super Turrican 2 isn't so bad though, if only you don't think of it as a Turrican game... as it definitely isn't!

It has some pretty nice effects and such anyway, the graphics are nice.
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Old 22 September 2013, 13:14   #389
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You can't rock out in the same way to Super Turrican as you could on the Amiga versions, am I being controversial in saying that Huelsbeck soundtracks were 50% of the experience? Rainbow arts + Huelsbeck = A marriage made in heaven.
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Old 22 September 2013, 13:19   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofchaos View Post
You can't rock out in the same way to Super Turrican as you could on the Amiga versions, am I being controversial in saying that Huelsbeck soundtracks were 50% of the experience? Rainbow arts + Huelsbeck = A marriage made in heaven.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/s...rrican/credits
The music and sound effects were made by Chris, but of course they sound different due to the hardware used
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Old 22 September 2013, 13:20   #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post
Namely the level design of Super Turrican is quite 'cut down' compared to the other Turrican games. The graphics are indeed nice and even the soundtrack is very good, but it plays very different to the home computer Turricans (or Mega Turrican for that matter).
I think that has something to do with "culture". I doubt the size of the cart is to blame, level maps don't take up that much space compared to graphics.

When you start a game of Turrican (1 or 2) on the Amiga you know you are in for the long haul, you know you could be playing for 2 or 3 hours. Arcade games, by contrast, tend to take about half an hour to complete. It's a different context and a different audience. Perhaps they thought console-owning kids wouldn't have so long an attention span, or for whatever other reason, that a console game shouldn't last so long, that it should generally be a faster, more action-packed and "less thoughtful" experience.

But the last boss is an oddity. Logically, you should have to fight The Machine at the end, so I suspect there was some space or time restriction that prevented them from including it.
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Old 22 September 2013, 13:33   #392
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Mega Turrican has also smaller levels (I think) than Turrican 3. Probably for the same reason that Mrs Beanbag states.
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Old 22 September 2013, 13:34   #393
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Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
When you start a game of Turrican (1 or 2) on the Amiga you know you are in for the long haul, you know you could be playing for 2 or 3 hours. Arcade games, by contrast, tend to take about half an hour to complete. It's a different context and a different audience. Perhaps they thought console-owning kids wouldn't have so long an attention span, or for whatever other reason, that a console game shouldn't last so long, that it should generally be a faster, more action-packed and "less thoughtful" experience.
Indeed, it was made for a different audience with different expectations. That's why I said that on the Amiga the typical 'console' platformers were mostly missing, but other concept with a different gameplay evolved that I don't want to miss It's about variety and I don't need Super Mario World on the Amiga to be honest.

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But the last boss is an oddity. Logically, you should have to fight The Machine at the end, so I suspect there was some space or time restriction that prevented them from including it.
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/turrican/turrican3.htm
"Mega Turrican's final factory world that ended with the confrontation against The Machine is simply missing, the game just ends after the Alien boss, despite showing The Machine in the intro and outro."
It really seems like it was left out for some reason.
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Old 22 September 2013, 13:38   #394
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Regarding Super Turrican being cut:

http://www.nemmelheim.de/turrican/of...erTurricanSNES

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"On a final note about Super Turrican, if you look at the Enemy Gallery in the game manual that can be brought up by pushing the home button on the Wii-Remote, there are several nasty critters in there that you won't find in this official retail version of Super Turrican due to memory constraints. We were told to deliver the game in 4 Mbit (512 KByte), the smallest size cartridge available at the time, after finishing it as a 6 MBit title. Not only did we have to cut bits of art in several places, but also a full stage and a feature of the new Beam weapon: Not only could it freeze enemies, but also melt frozen ones, something that the player had to discover in the Ice World and that led into a stage set on a Robot Transport hurtling through the clouds. But it wouldn't fit - and thus, somewhere, on a forgotten floppy disk, there still might exist the original Super Turrican - Director's Cut."
(Quote from http://www.factor5.de/secrets_super_turrican.shtml)
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Old 22 September 2013, 15:05   #395
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512 kB is an amazingly small amount for a game like Super Turrican, impressive they could even fit as much as they did in that. Even 6MBit is less than an Amiga floppy. Data must be stored compressed in some way but I didn't think consoles had enough RAM to decompress things into.
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Old 22 September 2013, 21:15   #396
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The SNES had 128KB + 64KB video memory + 64KB sound memory - pretty respectable (twice as much in total as the Sega Genesis, which had 64KB RAM + 64KB video memory,) but tight by Amiga standards...
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Old 22 September 2013, 21:27   #397
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It' not about hardware specs if you know Atari Jaguar story
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Old 22 September 2013, 23:49   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post
The SNES had 128KB + 64KB video memory + 64KB sound memory - pretty respectable (twice as much in total as the Sega Genesis, which had 64KB RAM + 64KB video memory,) but tight by Amiga standards...
The SNES like the coin-ops, the genesis, and any tilemap system, use that small memory. But it's huge in reality.

Each tile is coded on a byte or a word. if it's coded on a byte, the you can have 65535 tiles (64Kb of video memory).

The memory on the amiga is something else. there is no tilesystem, and if you want one it must be programmed. An amiga would require megabytes of RAM to get the equivalent of a tilesystem like the SNES or a coin-op machine.

The tilemap systems never see or access the graphics. The system get the access and display via the Hex code of a said tile in VRAM.
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Old 22 September 2013, 23:56   #399
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The SNES like the coin-ops, the genesis, and any tilemap system, use that small memory. But it's huge in reality.

Each tile is coded on a byte or a word. if it's coded on a byte, the you can have 65535 tiles (64Kb of video memory).

The memory on the amiga is something else. there is no tilesystem, and if you want one it must be programmed. An amiga would require megabytes of RAM to get the equivalent of a tilesystem like the SNES or a coin-op machine.

The tilemap systems never see or access the graphics. The system get the access and display via the Hex code of a said tile in VRAM.
Apart from the fact that consoles/arcades have dedicated tilemap hardware (which is true), nothing you said there makes any sense.

I'm speaking as someone who has programmed a tilesystem on the Amiga.

If a tile is coded on a byte you can have 256 different tiles. If it's a word you can have 65536 tiles. But you still have to store the tile graphics somewhere and this is exactly the same for a software tilemap implementation.
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Old 23 September 2013, 01:08   #400
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It was terrible. It did so many things much worse than Sonic. This post from earlier sums it up perfectly:

I would say it was average at best, it was a good demo of what could be done on A500 hardware but the gameplay was boring, the music sucked and the main character was so unlikeable it made you not want to play.

Having three channels for music and one for SFX is perfectly doable. The sound hardware was limiting, but developers used that as an excuse not to even bother. Turrican, Lionheart and many others proved music and SFX were perfectly doable at the same time. Paula was perfectly capable of acceptable game audio.

Do you mean arcade conversions? Most console conversions were a helluva lot better than the Amiga counterparts.

Megdrive Turrican was not a port, Turrican 3 was actually developed primarly for the MD.

What makes you say the Amiga version was better? Mega Turrican's music was easily on par if not better than the Amiga counterpart, the controls were better (especially for the rope swing), the graphics were tons better.

No surprise but it is one of the reasons why platformers are mediocre on the Amiga

I never said it wasn't. Doesn't make the rampant piracy on the Amiga any less of a bitter pill to swallow.

Their cost cutting gave rise to AGA, and the same blitter speed as an 1985 A500. Pretty inexcusable.

Talking specifically about the platformers, Megadrive/SNES has a much higher ratio of good games to bad ones. There are bad ones sure, but the Amiga is full of bad ones, with hardly any really good ones.

You're pretty much wrong on most counts as far as MegaTurrican/Turrican 3 are concerned.

Yes, it was developed first for Megadrive, but it was ALWAYS envisioned that the Amiga would get a version as well, and ended up being released first.

Secondly the graphics in Mega Turrican were not 'tons better' either. Foreground graphics were the same, the Amiga version didn't have the background parallax graphics, but i'm actually at a loss as to how that would make it physically a 'better' game. Parallax has nothing to do with playability whatsoever.

I personally found Mega Turrican too cluttered where some enemies blended too easily with the background. Thats not cool no matter how you cut it.

And lastly, whilst the Mega Turrican music was pretty damned good for the Megadrive, the Amiga version had it beat, the 7 channel title music on the Amiga elevated it beyond the Megadrive music before we even get to the ingame music.
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