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Old 10 September 2013, 15:34   #301
s2325
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If you have joystick with microswitches you can hear two clicks when pressing diagonals
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Old 10 September 2013, 15:53   #302
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There were a few good platform games on Amiga: Robocod, B.C. Kid, Amiga Toki was one of the better arcade conversions (the Megadrive one was terrible).

But there was also a lot of rubbish, and sadly much of it was overhyped by magazines wishing to have a "Sonic beater" when they really didn't.
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Old 10 September 2013, 17:11   #303
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i think, the big problem was that japanese society never try to work on amiga. If the amiga was from a japanese society, konami and capcom will have made terrific games with the amiga power.
the non support of japanese developers killed a little our great amiga.
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Old 10 September 2013, 17:23   #304
desiv
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Originally Posted by kipper2k View Post
Someone should make a controller with little detentes (bumps) so that we know when we are in one of the 8 positions.
You just need to wire up an old Odyssey 2 joystick to the Amiga.. It has guide dents.. ;-)

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(When my O2 died, I did that to use that joystick on my Vic-20. Loved it.. ;-)
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Old 10 September 2013, 17:34   #305
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Addressing the original question:

I think one reason the Amiga had poor platform games was its somewhat inadequate hardware sprite support both in number of sprites per scanline and their size.

The difference between having four 16-color sprites per scanline and eight or more 16-color sprites per scanline is huge and 32-pixel wide sprites are much more useful than 16-pixel wide sprites.

It's possible to get a few more hardware sprites per scanline by mixing DMA and manual mode sprites, but's its very restrictive and a pain to get right.
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Old 10 September 2013, 17:44   #306
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I'm no technics expert, but i'm sure this has nothing to do with the playability of Amiga platformers. Most of the designer probably had 8bit computer roots. Hard to get rid off this old design thinking on 16bit hardware then, i could imagine.

And as it was already mentioned, the early platformer were mostly 1:1 ports of poor ST games. Japanese designer ignored the most home computers. Indeed some companies like Konami or Capcom could have done great platformers instead of license a few selected titels to European game designer for conversions.
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Old 10 September 2013, 17:50   #307
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No, you're not alone, the Amiga had a lot of crappy games, the ratio of good games/all games must be one of the smallest on any system...(i verified that, i tried ALL the amiga games on lemonAmiga (with the whdload/adf versions on Winuae), did the same for the Genesis (good genesis) , msx (tosec) and Mame, the ratio of good games/all games for the genesis/mame/msx is far greater than on the Amiga.

But there were great games on the Amiga, thank God the Amiga had GODS... and Turrican II.
PS: Rick dangerous 1 and 2 are a great games.
That's some great research Jgames

It was a hard job but some one had to do it
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Old 10 September 2013, 18:03   #308
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I think one reason the Amiga had poor platform games was its somewhat inadequate hardware sprite support both in number of sprites per scanline and their size.
This is true but that limitation should affect any action game at all, not just platform games.

Mostly Amiga games only use sprites for the main character and limited other things, but we can use bobs for everything else. This is much less convenient but isn't an excuse for poor game design. There are plenty of Amiga games with a lot of action happening on screen.

But we had games like Chuck Rock which were competently programmed but uninspiring and boring or annoying to play. And with the so common mistake of only having one piece of music for the whole game. Or you have to choose music or sound effects and can't have both. Or it's generally just lacking a certain something.

One thing I note, however, is that on Chuck Rock and Wonderdog, all the moving objects go "behind" the stationary graphics, rather than in front. I wonder if that's so they don't have to bother storing the graphics under the bob, thus saving some blits. Interesting if true.
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Old 10 September 2013, 18:49   #309
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Without reading through 16 pages, IIRC there was no central QC on the Amiga.
Where in contrast SEGA and Nintendo had publishing rights and therefore QC over their games. If this is the case, no wonder more dross got through to the Amiga market than the others.
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Old 10 September 2013, 19:23   #310
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I thought Sleepwalker was pretty good fun.....once you got use to controlling it!
Wonderdog was OK. Some conversions seemed a bit weak, Cool Spot for example, Loved BC Kid though.

Plenty of PD platformers that played OK (Can't remember names???). Never ran out of something good to mess around on for a few hours on my Amiga
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Old 10 September 2013, 19:40   #311
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Platformers live and die by their controls. One button joysticks can never match a d-pad and two (or more) buttons. Up for jump as typical on Amiga killed any game that relied on it.
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Old 10 September 2013, 20:01   #312
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Platformers live and die by their controls. One button joysticks can never match a d-pad and two (or more) buttons. Up for jump as typical on Amiga killed any game that relied on it.
This is true. The Amiga could do two buttons trivially (well the mouse has two buttons, anyway) but for some reason nobody bothered making two-button joysticks. So no games used them. So nobody made them. So no games used them. Argh.

Strange, because SEGA Master System pads were compatible, yet nobody thought to take advantage of that.
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Old 10 September 2013, 20:06   #313
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Well, in the last Amiga years they supported a second button or even the CD32 pad. Games like, Aladdin, Turrican III, B.C. Kid, Fire and Ice, Bubble & Squeak, Lionheart etc. But i agree, they should have done it earlier. On the other side: Games like Turrican 1 and 2 works perfectly with one button, they were indeed optimised for 1-button jump "up" controls.
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Old 10 September 2013, 23:04   #314
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Always hated the 2nd fire button for jumping. It sure makes far more sense to move the stick "up" to jump/climb etc, and it worked a treat on Amiga platformers. And of course I totally disagree with the OP. Some of the "crap" games mentioned, are true classics.
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Old 11 September 2013, 10:12   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc6809e View Post
Addressing the original question:

I think one reason the Amiga had poor platform games was its somewhat inadequate hardware sprite support both in number of sprites per scanline and their size.

The difference between having four 16-color sprites per scanline and eight or more 16-color sprites per scanline is huge and 32-pixel wide sprites are much more useful than 16-pixel wide sprites.

It's possible to get a few more hardware sprites per scanline by mixing DMA and manual mode sprites, but's its very restrictive and a pain to get right.
It wasn't a question of hardware. There is some excellents platformers in GameBoy and one of the greatest (maybe THE greatest) is on NES...

One more time, just have a look (and play it !) at Mr Nutz : Hoppin'Mad. This is a perfect platformer, and you know why ? It's because it was made with the Amiga in mind, with it's strength and weakness.
Programmer Pieter Thierolf whos was also responsible for coding Mega Turrican and Turrican III said that T3 would have been much better if it was at first coded with the Amiga in mind...but it is in fact a conversion of Mega Turrican, made with the strength and weakness of the Megadrive...
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Old 11 September 2013, 11:23   #316
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I was never that keen on using up on joysticks to jump, but i did get used to it when there was no other choice.

I think this is what defines the amiga platformers compared to the consoles and it made the games harder and less precise to play.
There are plenty of good amiga platformers out there, i think it's mainly the control methods that put some people off.

Back in the day if you gave a console owner a play of an amiga platformer, the first thing they would say is that it doesn't feel right to have to press up to jump.

These days it's not hard to mod a multi button joystick so one of the buttons is used for up, essentially making it a 2 button joystick.

I did this easy mod with my Star Cursor joystick and it only took a few minutes to do.
Apparently you can also mod one of the buttons on a megadrive pad to act as up as well.

That way you get the best of both worlds, you can use either up or a button to jump in amiga platformers, and also use it in racing games as an acceleration button.
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Old 11 September 2013, 11:39   #317
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i did the mod to my honeybee (not the cd32 one, just megadrive) and a cheapy smaller clone of megadrive pad. didn't take long to do the smaller pad, but with the autofire etc of the honeybee i did have some head-scratching and staring at the traces for a while before diving in with a soldering iron

it makes the world of difference on platformers and driving games
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Old 11 September 2013, 11:50   #318
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it should be easy enough just to make a little adapter that switches two lines over, that way you could keep your pad's original function for games that do use two buttons.
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Old 11 September 2013, 11:54   #319
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for genesis/megadrive controllers, B and C are used for two button games, so hooking up to the A key to up completes it i think
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Old 12 September 2013, 01:16   #320
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These days it's not hard to mod a multi button joystick so one of the buttons is used for up, essentially making it a 2 button joystick.
For me, the problem was rarely moving up to jump...
It was accidentally jumping when I didn't want to...
So, modding a stick to have the 2nd button for jumping would help, but I'd still be accidentally jumping....
(Unless you disable UP when you move it to the button, but sometimes you need to climb, and using the button to do that would be weird I'd think...)

The game needs to be programmed for it to be really beneficial.. And there's ZERO reason not to... The Amiga has supported 2 buttons from day one and 2 button sticks had been available (SMS) for ages...

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