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Old 25 September 2009, 17:28   #1
NewDeli
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Cool HQ2x not smooth (some pictures linked so possibly slow loading)

Hi,


I wanted to evaluate how things would go with the HQ2x filter and do a CPU usage comparison (top left widget polls CPU every second, and it's not made by MS) with a version I keep using as some of you may know, the now famous : 1.4.6 .

With the other filters, gaming would be completely doable, but with HQ2x, I had many slowdowns :
Jerky scrolling, and rubbish audio, and ultimately errors.

I tried to reduce the audio settings levels (stereo,instead of 5.1, no A1200 filter...), and also tried Menace full screen (i usually use Full Window, a great idea tm Toni), it didn't help.


Here it goes :
CPU usage with the beta version : 85%
Not only the CPU usage is higher, but even if it was allowed to top 99%, the game is completely unplayable.


CPU usage with the 1.4.6 version : 71%


I also compared CPU usage of WinUAE running the same game with the D3D filter, and it was roughly the same (under 65%) with both versions (I can post the pics if necessary).

  • The game runs from its WHDload slave
  • the Workbench used is AmigaSYS 4, upgraded
  • The DualCore CPU inside DVDBOX is the e8600 (@3.33GHz)

Sorry for those with a slow Internet connexion.


Just to make you salivate, I post a screenshot of an emulated A4000 @50MHz. Its config. I tweaked to Cycle-exact the 020 (not really relevant, but may be worth noticing visually the 6-8% delta HQ2x induces compared to other filters). It also bears the D3D filter, which I should be using as default instead of the Null one.

Oh, I am aware most A4000 didn't have a 020, but I couldn't do that with the 040 nor with the 030.
May be the explanation is HQ2x not fully implemented, I am not, I repeat I am NOT whoring on the beta.

Last edited by NewDeli; 25 September 2009 at 17:43.
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Old 25 September 2009, 18:52   #2
Toni Wilen
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hq2x = slower than necessary (2xbuffer copies requirred..) because its author was not interested in supporting pitch/stride (search older threads, I won't reply again)

Use D3D shader filters which include hq2x.
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Old 25 September 2009, 19:06   #3
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Toni, maybe it would be an idea that you remove hq2x (standalone) from the code completely, because
1) it's included in D3D shader as you say
2) if the standalone version is not there, no one will complain any longer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleauvive View Post
Just to make you salivate, I post a screenshot of an emulated A4000 @50MHz.
Salivate?
I take that as a joke. Colors are really ugly in the bottom screenshot, no brilliance, no luminance, no life! :-/ everything looks like a badly adjusted C64 emulator, while the screenshots on top are as bright and full of light as I want them to see
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Old 25 September 2009, 20:48   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreas View Post
It's included in D3D shader

I didn't read all the posts from the "anybody wants filters" discussion, but I would say it may be partly included.

The following screenshot is Menace with the D3D shader, and the lower "stripe" (the vegetal lifeforms, and the logo) appears a tad less sharper to me.
Note that it may be easier/even more difficult to spot with other games.

Of course, D3D is more than enough to give an edge to the classic games, but I am not sure absolutely no difference is to find between the two. That's nice of you to have replied to my first post, anyway.
Any chance OpenGL put back in the lot ?







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Old 26 September 2009, 04:26   #5
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Beta 15 would allow me to use HQ2x, although I am not too sure how exactly it fares compared to the more popular one like SaI.

Also this beta definitely runs smoother , you save my day : WB 3.x and especially AmigaOS breathe again.
Nonetheless, I want to make clear that I am not endorsing this idea :
"Since I am now able to almost make Menace playable, let's keep HQ2x for the next releases", don't get me wrong.

In fact, I might have found out about a go-between substitute in the name of...
"HQlite" .


Apparently, the OpenMSX team gather the work of many contributors worldwide (most notably because they are the forthcoming inspiration for the hugely popular BlueMSX emulator ones), and one of these is a modification of the original HQ filter (if I understand well), called HQlite, which as the name implies should look nice yet be faster.

May be worth having a quick glance at the source code of v0.7.2.



Last edited by NewDeli; 08 October 2009 at 22:05.
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Old 09 October 2009, 01:00   #6
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I prefer DirectDraw scanlines, looks much better.





And look at your Scale2x shot, the letters are completely deformed. My eyes are bleeding!!!

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Old 09 October 2009, 01:13   #7
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TBH, the Scale2X filter looks the worst of the examples above. This one is too 'blurry' and the picture looks off. Still don't like scanlines
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Old 09 October 2009, 01:14   #8
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"Deformed" is a bit exaggerated, "shinier" I would say.

May I ask is it 16 or 32-bit bilinear you've set there R-N ?
Did you modify the extra settings (transparency) in any way ?
Is it HiRes or lowRes ?
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Old 09 October 2009, 01:18   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
I prefer DirectDraw scanlines, looks much better.





And look at your Scale2x shot, the letters are completely deformed. My eyes are bleeding!!!


Yeah that's the way. Beautiful.

Really I should read this huge thread. I still don't understand the purpose of all these filters.
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Old 09 October 2009, 01:29   #10
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Now this is how it should look like Lovely, isn't it?
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Old 09 October 2009, 01:34   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleauvive View Post
"Deformed" is a bit exaggerated, "shinier" I would say.

May I ask is it 16 or 32-bit bilinear you've set there R-N ?
Did you modify the extra settings (transparency) in any way ?
Is it HiRes or lowRes ?
Line Mode Scanlines, no D3D filter.
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Old 09 October 2009, 01:47   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid View Post


Now this is how it should look like Lovely, isn't it?
How do you do that ? And what's your screen resolution ?

I'm asking this because I never had enough patience to tweak those filters. I usually do like Retro-Nerd, perhaps with more transparency for scanlines.
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Old 09 October 2009, 01:52   #13
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Magic No seriously, this is the 'Null filter' -> 'Automatic Resize' setting. Without any scanlines of course
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Old 09 October 2009, 01:55   #14
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Oh now I see
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Old 09 October 2009, 01:57   #15
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Just try it and see if you like it
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Old 09 October 2009, 02:05   #16
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You have made me confused with all these examples.
Now I can't exactly remember how my Amiga rendered on screen. I used to plug it to a Phillips color monitor, a 1084S and a TV. Now I mostly use Winuaex on a CRT. I guess I should definitly buy a real Amiga to be sure. lol.
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Old 09 October 2009, 05:33   #17
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2xSAI rules !

EDIT : I am reinserting better looking screenshots.
I had to rethink the way I grab those screens, after reading john4p excellent post on that matter.


I didn't want to create a new thread simply to discuss which would be my (and yours) favorite filter with the latest betas.

Apparently, some people favor the null filter, it's a good filter, albeit a bit conservative and INMHO the following screenshots speak for themselves as for 2xSAI being superior.

The mistake I had made with the previous screenshots is that Resolution was not to set to 16-bit (and LowRes for the + filter shots).

CPU usage is noticeably lower (under 35%), because I use ASIO4ALL (Cf. my other thread) along with beta 17, and a lower res. helps (wish I knew earlier ).

HQ2x would still be unusable, I don't mind it being removed eventually since the day I noticed 2xSAI was faster, better and more gentle with the sprites .


Here we go :

2xSAI filter on
The DMA Design logo is very neat. My favorite filter.


Null filter on. Minor enhancements compared to the original image, still a bit blurry. Probably the second best.


HQ2x filter on. not great... Too bad if you still like it anyway, since it will probably be discarded.


Now for the real thing (well, almost ) aka no filters.
Double line mode, @ 656x496
The ship does look completely different, almost "alien", how could it be ?
Certainly other differences to spot.


If you (Toni, any GM) think there's no point in discussing this after the huge thread "who wants...filters", this post can be moved after having PM'd me.

Last edited by NewDeli; 09 October 2009 at 05:45.
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Old 09 October 2009, 10:23   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleauvive View Post
Apparently, some people favor the null filter, it's a good filter, albeit a bit conservative and INMHO the following screenshots speak for themselves as for 2xSAI being superior.
It's a matter of taste and not 'superiority'. I find that the 2xSAI filter looks 'wrong', but that's just what I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleauvive View Post
The ship does look completely different, almost "alien", how could it be ?
Never seen this before. Guess you're doing it wrong
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Old 09 October 2009, 10:43   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleauvive View Post
2xSAI filter on
The DMA Design logo is very neat. My favorite filter.
That looks like utter dogshit!
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Old 09 October 2009, 10:50   #20
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^
That just reminds me of the smooth edges filter in Photoshop, if it gets overdone the result looks totally naff and unusable.

Scary how someone can think that's the best out of everything else
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