new program for music lovers - testing needed please!

[snyp]

hi everyone

attached here is an alpha release of a program i am working on.

download (13/09/2009, release 1):
eMod alpha release.zip

screenshot:


eMod is being made with a vision to provide several tools to work with music modules of any format, across multiple platforms (amiga included of course!).
for now, only the player tool has been implemented; other tools will include a ripper, editor/sequencer, a formats 'encyclopedia', repair tool, convertor, and some other stuff. it's been WIP for about a year. i'm thinking about releasing it as shareware but most probably it will become open source upon the first stable release.

this alpha release implements music playback for four amiga formats; future composer 1.0-1.3, future composer 1.4, delta music 2.x, and protracker 4-channel modules.

i would really be greatful if you can help me please with some testing and feedback on the developments so far.
but most importantly.. tell me what you can suggest for the future.

eventually i aim to provide this thing for wider public scrutiny.. but for now, i just want to show it to my fellow amiga lovers

for now (this will change in the future), i am relying heavily on Windows MFC and the XAudio2 API, and so the program is compiled only for windows; sorry to linux/mac/os4 users! if you can dual-boot, please do so, just for 15 minutes, to give my work a tryout

-

what's in the box

• the application executable
• four module format plugin dll's
• eight example modules.

module credits (original composer):
wonderland-bbs.dm2 - Sten Lysholm Larsen
the last v8.dm2 - Rob Hubbard
astaroth 1.smod - Jochen Hippel
future 10 jump'n'roll.smod - Libi in Paradize
classic.fc - ???
hippel paradox intro.fc - Jochen Hippel
occ-san-geen.mod - Tomas Dahlgren
those three.mod - Tor Bernhard Gausen

minimum requirements

• direct-x march 2009 release
• a fairly fast cpu

what you will see
to date i have worked on three plugin tool-windows. you will see them when you load a module. they are not particularly nice to look at, but they work well i think.

about the design
the eMod application itself was designed from the group-up as a program which will define only a skeletal framework to accomodate plugins (dll plugins and new window subclasses) - this is because there are hundreds of possible types of files that this program will need to work with; most of them i have no idea about yet, because i've not studied them, or not even heard about them. i believe my vision is possible, and up to now the framework has worked very well i think. hoever, plugins in the future will require changes to the framework.

eMod is being written in c++ with some asm, using VS2008 for the ide.
the amiga plugins are being written in c++ and 680x0 asm.
future plugins for other emulated processor platforms will require asm written for those processors.

-

what's expected in this alpha release

• thread deadlocks - it's important to let me know of any error messages you get about this please
• modules not working properly/not sounding like they should - VERY important that you tell me about this please
• possible compatibility issues between different versions of Windows
• possible exception errors if corrupt modules are loaded
• slow display updates with older cpu's

what's not expected

• memory leaks - i have been very careful to take care of all resources/allocations
• crashes/deadlocks (aside from the above) - i have done my very best to make sure i don't cause problems on your machines. on my own machine (vista ultimate 64-bit, dual-core 4ghz, 4gb ddr3 ram) and a test machine (xp corp pro 32-bit, single core 1.6ghz, 1gb sd-ram), there have been no crashes after about 3 hours intensive testing today and yesterday. if any crashes do occur, please let me know about these urgently, with as much info as possible!
• i have checked the contents of my upload with Norton IS 2008

what i'm aware of

• the application is quite memory-hungry - i have designed the app with mostly dynamic memory allocation, but accuracy and speed (most important, yes?) does demand a lot of memory resources. i believe 150mb memory use is an upper limit i should set for the entire application, inclusive of all plugins and further developments in the future. would you all agree this is reasonable? let me know
• the application doesn't do much/it's not all that great compared to deliplayer or UADE - i believe the scope of eMod is wider than other tools available for music modules, but admittedly this alpha release is really just to get your input on the feel/design, to check stability of the sound engine, and to basically get the thing out there at long last. i work full-time (in a shit job) and i have a family to take responsibility for, so my time resources are quite limited. i work around 2 hours on eMod each day, most days of the week. the application has a broad infrastructure for plugins and addons, so community development is what may eventually drive it.
• the gui is quite 'bloated' - i like a tight gui myself, but for now i have made things for functionality rather than visual appeal or conservation of space. i have tested eMod on low resolutions, and i hope i have catered for limited screen space.

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what's coming up in the next alpha releases

• implementing the beginnings of the other tools - it will rip/convert/repair/edit etc
• some more formats - already WIP are; hippel amiga/hippel st/sonic arranger/fast-tracker/c64 sid
• implementing the beginnings of the encyclopedia - in-depth info about the formats/module data structures/replayer method/old sources/info about format developers/release history.. etc etc.. anything i can get my hands on
• player: a new mixer type - giving control over each individual instrument, and also support for quadraphonic surround-sound
• player: more visual plugins - and possibly including support for things like milkdrop too
• vst/directx sound plugins - reverb/echo, compression, phase/flange, or whatever plugin you load
• midi support
• far better customization

what's not coming up
support for sounds/music created in new generation sequencers like Cubase, Reason and Protools. there are far too many obstacles to think about support for this type of data.

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todo list, suggested by eab users

• improve seek time - reports that seeking to random points in the music takes too long
• support for the rewire protocol - to make it possible to use eMod as input/output to/from any other app supporting rewire

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thanks everyone

[Genju]

Looks very promising already! I've been looking for a proper all-in-one solution to rip, edit and play mods in windows for ages.
Love the tracker view, finally a way to see the note data in FC modules without having to deal with the horrible FC interface!

[mai]

Looks good, unfortunalety it crashes on my PC, if i try to load a module.
Also if i try to unpack the attached rar-archive, i get an error message:
"Invalid or destroyed authenticity information."

[snyp]

Originally Posted by mai

Looks good, unfortunalety it crashes on my PC, if i try to load a module.
Also if i try to unpack the attached rar-archive, i get an error message:
"Invalid or destroyed authenticity information."

i have re-uploaded the program as a zip instead of a rar. it appears to unpack ok now?

can you please provide as much info about the crash as possible..
which module?
details in the crash dump from windows?
which version of windows?

[mai]

Originally Posted by snyp

i have re-uploaded the program as a zip instead of a rar. it appears to unpack ok now?

Zip-archive unpacks without error message now.

Originally Posted by snyp

can you please provide as much info about the crash as possible..
which module?
details in the crash dump from windows?
which version of windows?

If i start "eMod.exe", then i get error message:
"XAudio2Create failed"
by clicking "OK" button the main program starts.
Now, if i try to load a module, i get windows error message:
"Emod:music module workshop no longer works".

Windows:
Windows Vista Home Premium (6.0.6001)

[snyp]

Originally Posted by mai

Zip-archive unpacks without error message now.



If i start "eMod.exe", then i get error message:
"XAudio2Create failed"
by clicking "OK" button the main program starts.
Now, if i try to load a module, i get windows error message:
"Emod:music module workshop no longer works".

Windows:
Windows Vista Home Premium (6.0.6001)

thanks mai,

the problem is that your Direct-X is too old. if it's possible for you, download it from microsoft at http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en to update to the march 2009 runtimes

[mai]

Originally Posted by snyp

the problem is that your Direct-X is too old.

thanks, this was the problem, now it works.

[8bitbubsy]

Impressive!
This is wonderful, looks so finished already... I really like it, the GUI is nice, and it plays the modules very well!

However, the pattern offset calculation is rather slow... Hencing the "Seek" box when you jump to another pattern. What's up with that? Should be instant...

(What's Delta Music? Is it a format for Amiga?)

[TheCyberDruid]

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

(What's Delta Music? Is it a format for Amiga?)

Yep : http://bitworld.bitfellas.org/demo.php?id=19954 and http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Categ..._Music_Formats
Rather odd format though

[8bitbubsy]

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Yep : http://bitworld.bitfellas.org/demo.php?id=19954 and http://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/Categ..._Music_Formats
Rather odd format though

I like the crispy sound... Interesting, guess there are no userfriendly trackers for it tho.

[snyp]

Originally Posted by 8bitbubsy

However, the pattern offset calculation is rather slow... Hencing the "Seek" box when you jump to another pattern. What's up with that? Should be instant...

it shouldn't take longer than around 500ms to seek.. if the status bar shows the string "discarding frames" for a noticable period of time, possibly your cpu is overworked?

seeking to a random point in the song involves a silenced run of the emulated replayer code from the first vblank to that point. i have done this for accuracy.

example;
a song may play a string instrument in one channel that never stops, or changes note (the dma isn't reset).. just a constant waveform loop. let's say we seek 3m 30s into the song.. the seek resumes play with an accurate representation of which part of the string waveform is being played at that point.

possibly there is a better way to do this?
but i can't imagine what it might be..
i had tried other methods like, flagging points in the song which the dma is either off/being turned on ("safe" points), and seeking from there instead of the first frame.. but it saved a mere 10ms, it wasn't worth the added maintenance.

additionally, and most importantly, the repayer code could be processing all kinds of things in those skipped 3m 30s. i want that processing to be represented with complete integrity.

Originally Posted by TheCyberDruid

Rather odd format though

i love dm's sound. perhaps rather loud in it's average output.. but interesting replayer and synth methods

[bippym]

I've moved this to news.. I think it's kinda appropriate

[Asle]

Hi,

Nice effort, for sure. I wish you all the best for this project.

On a side note (and I really mean side note), it's good you provide example musics, but
1. I think authors deserve to be credited. Whoever they are
2. "those three.mod" has 2 extra bytes. "classic.fc" has quite a few extra bytes too

I'm sorry I'm only running my good old FreeBSD 4.9, here. So I can't check this out. Still, I hope to read from this soon.

All the best,
Sylvain

[snyp]

nice to see you onboard asle

Originally Posted by Asle

Hi,
1. I think authors deserve to be credited. Whoever they are

yes, you're right.. i'll redo the upload including a readme

edit; i have now included credits for the modules in the initial post

Originally Posted by Asle

2. "those three.mod" has 2 extra bytes. "classic.fc" has quite a few extra bytes too

both were just copied across from the modland ftp i think.. but i am actually working on data integrity checks to combat possible other problems involving this as we speak

you may remember i had problems with data integrity on the ripping tool.. i did take your comments on board

[Asle]

Indeed, I remember. Woaw, now, that was quite some time ago. The thread must be lost somewhere in the archives of EAB .
Well, that's good news. These integrity checks are more of less mandatory I guess, especially when replaying is one of the goals.
Thanks for having answered that fast.

Again, all the best for your project. I'll keep an eye on it as often as I can spare one

All the best,
Sylvain

[Ziphoid]

Yo snyp,

Impressive work so far. It's good to be able to look back at my old FC-tracks in a completely different light of day, and the replayer does it all nicely as well.

In case you haven't done so already, you should really have a chat to BuZz, who runs the Exotica site, to discuss usage of his search engine for information about tracks and all other things surrounding the music since it's amazingly performed and I think you'd make it quite easy for yourself to get to that info to talk to him.

Also, since I was one of the members of Musicline and have control of the sourcecode for it, just howl to me if you want it to study for implementation.

Keep it up!

// Ziphoid

P.S. How quickly do you get deleted from this board? I know that I've been registered here before, but that account had apparently been deleted... D.S.

[spoUP]

wow... amazing! i thought this project was dead since long.
if you want info on the AHX format, and the slightly more advanced Hively format, check out hivelytracker.com and download the latest version of hively tracker, it includes a portable C version of the replayer that plays both AHX and Hively tunes.

[Loedown]

Greetings,
If it can have the ability to read in and convert and Octamed Sound Studio module / song, packed or unpacked and then be able to output it as MID0 / MID1, that would be absolutely sensational, you will need probably to include ticks per quarter note and alike.

Please

[snyp]

hi all,

Originally Posted by Ziphoid

In case you haven't done so already, you should really have a chat to BuZz, who runs the Exotica site, to discuss usage of his search engine for information about tracks and all other things surrounding the music

we're on the same thinking,

i've talked to buzz briefly, and he helped me with sonic-arranger files a while ago.

on the left panel is a chest of drawers, if you see it? this tool will be to browse 'libraries', with search functions, tables, sorting, etc.. unexotica will be one of them.. high-voltage sid another.. there are a few collections available online and i hope to use eMod to connect directly to them without the need for a browser, or html

Originally Posted by Ziphoid

Also, since I was one of the members of Musicline and have control of the sourcecode for it, just howl to me if you want it to study for implementation.

yes please, this would be really useful for me

Originally Posted by Ziphoid

P.S. How quickly do you get deleted from this board? I know that I've been registered here before, but that account had apparently been deleted... D.S.

not sure tbh.. bippym's around a lot.. he might be able to retrieve your archive or something

Originally Posted by spoUP

download the latest version of hively tracker, it includes a portable C version of the replayer that plays both AHX and Hively tunes.

sources are what i need more of, thanks spoUP

Originally Posted by Loedown

If it can have the ability to read in and convert and Octamed Sound Studio module / song, packed or unpacked and then be able to output it as MID0 / MID1

midi support is something i'm very keen on myself. initially i will focus on midi input.. but midi output will be supported later on too. i will need your suggestions/input when i get to this in the future, thanks

[Grimbog]

What a brilliant project - its so refreshing to see something like this in development.

I'm still using Deliplayer for all my tracker based playback, however its been shelved for a while now, and I never really liked the interface, so I'm still trying to find a good alternative as an 'all in one' tool. As a player already eMod is pretty awesome. Anything that allows me to mute/mix individual channels to get an idea of how instruments are sequenced together is a good'n... really allows me to 'get to the bones' of a track.

It would be awesome if this could play some of the rarer formats... especially if it can do like Deliplayer and play .cust files somehow, although I can imagine this isn't an easy thing to program.

Let me know if you need a alpha/beta tester, as I'm especially keen to try out midi-sync (would be great if rewire was available for synchronisation with cubase etc), and instrument browse functions.

Encountered 1 cash when using this so far.. but I'm unable to replicate it. It occurred when I loaded up a mod whilst one was already playing.

Windows XP SP3
Quad Core etc.

[snyp]

hiya,

Originally Posted by Grimbog

It would be awesome if this could play some of the rarer formats... especially if it can do like Deliplayer and play .cust files somehow, although I can imagine this isn't an easy thing to program.

custom modules do present a problem..
it wouldn't be too difficult to play them.. but any kind of understanding or translation of the data wouldn't be possible, because the structure of the data would be undefined; this means no possible support in the sequencer view, instrument mixer, module info.. etc

a custom module cannot be defined as a format, because it's really just a wrapper for an undefined format.. but the data enclosed within the wrapper is still a format, and i think it's important for historical preservation that the format itself, independent of the wrapper, must be properly defined and recognised.
because of this, i don't aim to provide any support for custom modules themselves, but i do want to support the formats contained within them

hrm.. unless..

do you think i should write additional play-only support for custom modules?
.. this would sadly mean special exception to eMod's overall vision.. eMod's full range tools should be adaptable to all types

Originally Posted by Grimbog

(would be great if rewire was available for synchronisation with cubase etc)

great idea!

i don't intend to support any new-gen formats.. but rewire would be superb.. would give you the flexibility to use eMod with the new-gen apps if you wish

i know very little about midi's inner workings, and i would indeed like your help with this in the future, thanks

added this to the todo

Originally Posted by Grimbog

Encountered 1 cash when using this so far.. but I'm unable to replicate it. It occurred when I loaded up a mod whilst one was already playing.

oh no!! first crash report..

it's very important to catch these elusive bugs now before they cause more serious problems if more layers are added on top of them. rotten roots = dead tree

please grab the debug info from the windows report if you can, whenever you get a crash

[pattinsonrobert]

Hi Snyp.

Nice effort. All the best for your project.
Keep it good work.It's pleasure to be a part of your forum. I love to try also what you are discussing here. Thanks!

[snyp]

hi everyone,

i have been working quietly on this since the last post and things are progressing quite well.

over the most recent 2 weeks i have started to look into the playstation's architechture, sound processor, and MIPS cpu. to begin work, i am hacking the PSX version of Doom, to isolate the replayer routines and look into how the SPU is used.

it's become clear from doing this, that there aren't enough time resources for me to complete my work alone.

let's say for example, if there are 50 different CPU platforms, (consoles, antique computers, and any other electronic device producing music from sequences), let's say 3 months to properly learn, document, and emulate each CPU platform..
then computer systems each have software produced by companies which in effect may define their own type of music format, so let's say 200 replayer formats each platform, and 1-2 months to develop a replayer plugin..
i'll need another couple of lifetimes at least

i'd like to ask for help please to start to make this project open source and publicly developed.

if you are interested in computer generated music, and have knowledge of different cpu's and systems, i'd really value your input. together we can launch this thing and make it a publicly owned project.

there are several areas that can be developed within eMod;
the eMod GUI
emulation plugins (c++ translating a CPU's code to x86)
replayer plugins (code native to a system's CPU type, which is fed into an emulator as above)
databases/catalogues
design work/planning/logic flow
etc etc

anyone interested, please let me know.

regards